Sober Success: Building a Life You Don't Need to Escape From with Darryl Dittmer

In this episode of the Sober Butterfly Podcast, host Nadine Mulvina talks with Daryl Dittmer, author of 'When I Stopped Fighting: The Unexpected Joy of Getting to Know You.' Daryl shares his inspiring journey of overcoming substance abuse and achieving 39 years of sobriety. Raised in a Midwest Protestant family with no initial association to alcohol, Daryl's first encounter with drinking at 13 led to years of substance misuse.

This conversation explores Daryl's transformation from struggling with substance dependency to his commitment to personal growth and resilience, ultimately leading a fulfilling sober life. Daryl's insights on reevaluating belief systems, life's purpose, the importance of gratitude, and finding one's own level of happiness and success provide valuable lessons for anyone facing similar challenges. Additionally, Daryl discusses the significance of his book and the message of hope and change he aims to impart. The episode also touches on the impact of sobriety on personal relationships and the journey towards finding contentment and purpose in life.

00:00 Welcome to the Sober Butterfly Podcast

00:22 Diving Deep with Daryl Dittmer: A Journey of Sobriety and Personal Growth

01:25 The Early Days: Daryl's Introduction to Alcohol and Its Impact

07:20 The Turning Point: Seeking Help and Embracing Sobriety

14:23 Navigating Life Post-Treatment: Successes, Failures, and Lessons Learned

25:15 The Philosophy of Sobriety: Redefining Success and Embracing Change

33:47 Defining Success and Taking Risks

34:32 The Essence of True Success

36:01 The Journey to Waking Up Happy

37:10 Exploring Beliefs and Sobriety

38:30 The Power of Self-Improvement and Gratitude

42:55 Redefining Faith and Higher Power

49:04 The Impact of Moment Drink on Wellness

50:50 The Importance of Meditation and Self-Reflection

52:41 Writing to Inspire and Guide Others

56:33 Attracting the Right Relationships

01:05:45 Closing Thoughts and Gratitude

Connect with Daryl

• Follow on IG: @whenistopfighting
• Follow on X , formally known as Twitter: @DarylEDittmer
• Book: When I Stopped Fighting: The Unexpected Joy of Getting to Know You.
• Website: https://www.daryldittmer.com/

Connect with Nadine:

• Follow on IG: @the.soberbutterfly @soberbutterflypodcast
• Follow on TikTok @the.soberbutterfly
• Subscribe to YouTube channel 
• Subscribe to our monthly newsletter,  https://thesoberbutterfly.com/

Tune in to The Sober Butterfly podcast for more inspiring conversations and stories of transformation on the journey to sobriety. Don't forget to subscribe and leave a five-star review!

Transcript

0:00

Hello and welcome to the show. My name is Nadine Mulvina and you are listening to the Sober Butterfly Podcast. TSB is all about diving into inspiring stories of personal growth, resilience, and transformation.

Nadine: 0:18

Hello, hello, and welcome to the Sober Butterfly podcast. Today we are joined with a very special guest. I have Daryl Dittmer here. Welcome Daryl. Thank you so much for being a part of the show.

Darryl: 0:32

Hi, Nadine. Thank you so much for having me. I really appreciate it.

Nadine: 0:35

And I really appreciate you. I am very interested to learn a little bit more about your book. When I Stopped Fighting the Unexpected Joy of Getting to Know You. My head out of my ass, what a title. I absolutely love that. So we can get into that a little bit later. Um, and then just in terms of a little bit of your story, because you have a lot of sober time. Um, you and I were talking a little bit backstage. I have coming into three years and how many years sober do you have? Daryl?

Darryl: 1:04

Uh, just over 39.

Nadine: 1:07

Wow. That's impressive. And I know like you can't always qualify, quantify or qualify. I should say maybe the sober time, but in terms of like, you know, That's like a lifespan. That's incredible. So I would love to hear a little bit more about that, of course. Um, but tell us early beginnings. What was life like for you, Daryl, growing up? I believe you're from Michigan, right?

squadcaster-f2e9_2_03-24-2024_121909: 1:29

I am. Yes, I am.

Track 1: 1:31

So tell us about your upbringing. What was life like? I love to learn or know some of the earliest associations that you had with alcohol or substances. Like, did your family have any connection to drinking or using, or what was their sort of like views around? Substances and how were you first exposed to that growing up?

squadcaster-f2e9_2_03-24-2024_121909: 1:55

Sure. The, the, um, you know, from a family perspective, uh, no real association with alcohol. Uh, I guess, you know, I grew up in the Midwest. So, so I was guess the biggest influence on my life was sort of the Protestant work ethic that, you know, it's, it's, it's just a thing where my dad was a mechanic. My mom took care of us kids and have an older brother and a younger sister. So it was, it was. What I would say from back then, it was a pretty traditional, you know, typical Midwestern American family. Um, in Michigan, dad worked for either GM Ford or Chrysler for the most part. I shouldn't say everyone, but that's just kind of how it rolled out. And, and so, you know, there was a focus on, for my dad, he was also a Navy veteran. So it was discipline. It was strict. It was, you know, fairly tough. He was a pretty tough dude. He was Um, my mom was, uh, a strict, you know, disciplinarian manners, all that sort of thing. Um, and we had a, a, a Protestant upbringing, so, so we, I was raised Lutheran, which, you know, is, is really neither here nor there, but it started the story of, of here's your box of what you're allowed to believe. And here's your. Here's your stuff that you have to kind of buy into, which is cool because they're parents and they're supposed to do that sort of thing and whatever. But, but at some point you come to, you know, where does that, where does that work in my life? So anyway, we'll get to that in a little bit because, uh, that's, that's another. Uh, juicy part of the story, but, um, in terms of sobriety, um, you know, and belief systems and that sort of thing. But you know, I started drinking, I shouldn't say I started drinking, I had my first drink when I was 13 and, and uh, you know, got into, not big trouble, but just a little bit of trouble with a kid that was much older than me and I was, you know, I just turned into an idiot. Um, yeah. pretty immediately. But, but I do remember the fact that I loved how I felt. I, I, and I wanted to do that again and I wanted to keep doing that. So, so that was my introduction and then it, you know, it just, it took a pretty quick path from that point.

Track 1: 4:21

Thank you for sharing that. I'm curious Darryl was the first time at 13 that you tried alcohol. Did you get drunk at that time or were you just casually drinking?

squadcaster-f2e9_2_03-24-2024_121909: 4:31

No, casually drinking even

Track 1: 4:34

drinking.

squadcaster-f2e9_2_03-24-2024_121909: 4:36

Yeah, it wasn't even wasn't even in my repertoire the 1st time. Um, you know, I wouldn't, I wasn't stumbling around or anything or, but I was definitely, um. You know, more than, more than casual, no doubt about it.

Track 1: 4:50

I asked that question because I too got drunk. I can't remember actually I was in seventh grade So I would have been 12 or 13 And the first time I ever drank alcohol, I was completely blackout drunk And so I I often ask that question That question to guess because I wonder if there's some sort of like parallel that coexists like your first introduction to the substance. It's like, I felt the sense of euphoria. Like you said, you'd never felt like that before. Like I too was like, wow, this is incredible. I can lose myself. My inhibitions are gone. So that's why I always ask that question. But yeah, there was no sense of responsible drinking for me at 12 slash 13 either. Um, so yeah, what happened that following that, um, first? Time you drink, like how did that sort of, or did it snowball into other things? Like, like how did that relationship grow or develop for you?

squadcaster-f2e9_2_03-24-2024_121909: 5:43

Definitely snowballed into other things. Um, moved from kind of the burbs to out in the country, uh, not too long after that first introduction and, and I got involved with some, some guys who, uh, know, we started, uh, riding, I had a crappy old motorcycle and they had motorcycles and so we used to ride around in the old. Back roads, dirt roads, and we used to ride and drink in the gravel pit and that sort of thing and, and, and then got introduced to weed and started doing that, you know, as often as I possibly could and, drinking as often as I possibly could and hiding and, and then it started into the, you know, the lying and cheating and stealing and all that stuff that just kind of. Comes along at least it did for me. And I think a lot of folks that I've known over the years that, you know, we have to protect this newfound love of our life. Right? So, and most people can't relate to how hard we decided to go at it. Um, and some can, and those are the people that, that stayed along for the ride, right? Until, until the bitter end, but, um, it, it, you know, it moved into psychedelic stuff and, and cocaine, and then, you know, dealing and that sort of thing, and, it definitely snowballed, and by the time I was 18, I was with the prospect of, of, you know, being. Uh, asked to, to go into treatment and that's a, that's a interesting story in of itself. They

Track 1: 7:29

I would love to hear parts of that story as well. I'm curious to, to find out, since you mentioned your parents were pretty disciplined and also religious, um, were there any, um, confrontations or Was there a conflict between this version of you as you were maybe pushing those boundaries and home life? Or did you keep that separate? Like, did they not know the extent of your drinking or, um, hanging out even with these guys in a motorcycle? I'm thinking like a motorcycle gang. I don't know if that's a fair, um, fair depiction, but yes. Were they aware of your sort of like dealings at this time.

squadcaster-f2e9_2_03-24-2024_121909: 8:09

were aware of the fact that I had changed immensely as a human being, um, and I'd come You know, when I was a kid, I'd come home drunk all the time, uh, or high or both or whatever, you know, just under the influence of something, whatever that happened to be or knock them home or, you know, whatever. So, so they, they knew there were issues. My dad, you know, he did have a past when it came to, um, know, a little bit of dysfunction and, and, and in his younger years drinking, but I never saw him. He drank, you know, three beers a year or something. Um, You know, when I was growing up, so, think he sort of looked at it like, Oh, he's just, you know, a kid being a kid and he didn't really get into it. My mom, on the other hand, was on my tail and, uh, she was definitely very concerned about me. And, And, um, and the, and how much I changed, um, cause she, she said to me one time, and it's difficult for me to say now, but, uh, you know, amends have been made long time ago and, and that sort of thing. And, but said, I saw when I looked in your eyes, I guess to paraphrase it was evil. I didn't, and that was just, and I, I don't think I was, but I think she saw a part of me that was. Not the guy she raised and it, and I think it scared the hell out of her. I

Track 1: 9:42

Wow. I mean, that's a pretty powerful, profound statement. And I'm sure hard to hear as a son. Um, so what was the precipice like? So at 18, you know, you're realizing that maybe you mentioned that you needed some help. It sounded like maybe, and treatment became An option. I'm curious to know what that looked like. So how did we get to that place where you sought change for your life?

squadcaster-f2e9_2_03-24-2024_121909: 10:14

wasn't, I was, I was aware to the extent that I could be at that point that I was miserable, that I was always hiding, that I was always scared, that I always had to be around people. I couldn't stand to be alone. Um, it was just, it was incredibly, you know, my life was just, tumultuous. It was tumultuous at that point. Um, but I didn't understand that it was the drugs and the drink and that was that was that was how I escaped and that was how I got out of what I thought was bad, you know, because that was when I felt good when I wasn't when I wasn't under the influence of something that's. I didn't enjoy myself and I, I didn't like the time I was spending with me or other people and I got to the point where I, you know, I couldn't look people in the eye. I, I could barely have, you know, a rational conversation, um, with anyone who was you know, it was just kind of these, the, the friends that I Did more of this hard stuff with hard party and whatever. Um, those were the guys I could relate with so So anyway, my my mom and dad said to me one day they said look we got to talk and and so They said we want you to go talk to this counselor. And if you don't go talk to this counselor You know, it's kind of over, you know in terms of how our relationship is going to go Hennett was, it was kind of a tough, it was a tough sort of, uh, crossroads for me, because I didn't want to go talk to this counselor, and, and absolutely not, and I was scared to death to go talk to the counselor, but there was also something inside me that was saying, of banging on my hood a little bit, saying, dude, you're a mess. You know, you, you need to do something. So decided to go and the meeting was probably a, I don't know, a week or week and a half forward from when we had that discussion. So, so I went and I showed up and my, my plan was as. I'd conducted everything in my life at that point was to try to lie and just BS my way through it. And, and as soon as I walked into this dude's office, he's like, you can't lie to me. You can't BS me, you know, don't, don't even try. He intimidated the hell out of me. And, a kid, I'm 18, you know, I'm, I'm still. able to be intimidated for sure. And, and I was, and so in that discussion, I told him I was as honest with him as I could be at that time, whatever capability I had of being honest at that time, I, I, I was as honest as I could be. So the end I said, what's, you know, what do you think doc? And he said, well, we need to get you into treatment. So, so it was probably another, I don't know, maybe two, three weeks and I have, I don't have many recollections of that time, quite honestly, but, but there was a date that was set and, uh, and that was the day I was going into treatment and I, and I ended up acquiescing to, uh, to my fate at that point, not knowing what the hell was going to happen and. I ended up going,

Track 1: 13:36

That's beautiful. And I'm so glad that that counselor kind of expected you to lie and BS and was just like, well, dude, I've seen and heard it all. There's no way I'm going to let you skate out of here. Um, that's also really relatable in terms of the honesty piece. I feel like most people. Get sober when they're ready to be honest with themselves and maybe with other people who can actually help facilitate that process. So that's beautiful because it sounds like you weren't necessarily seeking sobriety at that time. It was sort of like your hand was forced, but ultimately you made that choice, which we all do when we're ready to actually have the tough conversation. Like I can't do this or maybe my life is unmanageable at this time. What was, um, your treatment process? I know you said it's sort of like, And many years ago, I'm assuming as well, but it was sort of a blur. But what would you say were, were some of the cruxes or foundations of you getting better during that time?

squadcaster-f2e9_2_03-24-2024_121909: 14:40

uh, I, I don't remember much about treatment, honestly, and, and for several reasons. Um, but I do know there are 2, uh, very important things that I got out of treatment, um, which were indispensable and, and I think sort of lit the fire for me that. I could live a different way. So, so the first thing was I got an introduced to the 12 steps and that was, that was really important for me. It was if I was at that time I was 19. So, so my birthday's December 15th and I went into treatment January 3rd. So, I had just turned 19. I'm in treatment and, and I'm a kid. So I'm still trying to figure out the whole life thing, you know, just like, where do I. I'm a kid. I'm messed up. I think I know everything. I don't know a damn thing. You know, there's all this stuff going on. So, so the 12 steps for me provided, um, at least people who seem like. They may have had something together that I didn't have in, in any way. And that was pretty cool for me to see. then I got, you know, introduced at least to the 12 Steps. And I know heard the promises, um, point. And so then the other thing I got other than 12 Steps was hope. I got hope that, that I could live a life where. know, someday, maybe I could look people in the eye and I could have confidence and I could feel better like some of these people that I'm seeing around me and, and it wasn't all the people I was seeing around me in the, in the, around the tables and stuff, but there were some, and you just kind of pick them out and like, oh, wow, that person. I want to be like that person or I, I want to feel how I think that person feels, you know, so, so that was, that was treatment for me and it was, it, it put me on the road for which I am grateful.

Track 1: 16:49

That's beautiful. And I, I feel like this is why having conversations like this is so important because when people can connect, when people can hear parts of their story. Interwoven with yours, for example, it lets us know that we are not alone. And I think AA has a saying, like, we are all terminally unique. We think that we're living in sort of like a. Silo where it's like, this is just happening to me. No one else can understand. And then when you connect with other people who have gone through that similar situation and they seem like, you know, they're still alive and even thriving, um, you're like, wow, like I want to be like that, like you have something I want and I desire to also be able to live this life. And I think. That is profoundly just so impactful because when you feel like you're so broken and no one, nobody understands, that is where I think so many people stay stuck and suffer. Whereas when you see people who have gone through similar things as mentioned. It just gives hope, like you mentioned, everything you said I can resonate with. And I've had similar situations where I've been like, I don't think other people necessarily understand what I'm going through. And then I'll go to a meeting and I recognize that, no, there's so many people that understand exactly what you've gone through and what you're going through. So that's really powerful. Thank you for sharing that, Daryl. Um, so then following treatment, like you've had like many, I want to say iterations of life, which I'm so drawn to because I love this idea that we are not a single narrative. There's so many dimensions to who we are. So, you know, being a 19 year old kid, you've already lived, it sounds like a lot of experience, um, but you were still figuring out life and how to navigate life. So talk, kind of walk us through the iterations. I know this is a big ask, but walk us through some of the iterations of Daryl. Cause I, I, you are a carpenter at one point, you, you know, own your own business, you were in sales, so like, how did you sort of go through life? And then this is inching towards success, right? Like what did success look for you at 19 versus fast forward, you know, to how many years to now? Like how many lives have you lived? I guess it's my question, Daryl.

squadcaster-f2e9_2_03-24-2024_121909: 19:13

I love that. Now, uh, lots of them, um, which is great. And, and, you know, I, I don't want to be done living different iterations of me because. and, and for every ounce of it, you know, I don't seriously, and I'm serious when I say this, I, I, I do the work that's in front of me to be done, but I, I can't just take credit for, I spend more time being grateful than anything, you know, and just doing the work. So, so that's, that's the end of the story. The beginning of the story was, um, you know, at 19, I wanted to. You know, my parents did a great job and they did the best they could and, you know, we, my dad was a mechanic and, you know, we didn't have much money, right? We had no, we had food, clothing and shelter and, and, you know, they, they did absolutely the best they could, for which I am very grateful. Um, and, but I wanted to experience some different things and some financial success in my life and. And I started to hang around with people in sobriety who Um, you know, who thought of life from a perspective of abundance and, and that it's okay and there's enough for everybody and, you know, you don't, you're not holding somebody else down if you're successful. You know, those sorts of thought processes, which I completely agree with, um, and I don't I just, I wanted something more so, so I actually ended up going to college and I wasn't, you know, I didn't come from a college educated family or anything like that. So it was never like, uh, you know, nobody was planning on going to college or, you know, and I just happened to, when I got out of treatment, um, I, I decided I wanted to go to college. And so I did do that. I got out of college and I just went back to doing carpentry because that's what I was comfortable doing. I got a criminal justice degree because my brother was a police officer. My grandfather was a police officer. My dad was a mechanic. My other grandfather was a firefighter. So seemed like the You know, the closest thing to what I could understand, um, people were getting business degrees and marketing degrees and finance degrees. I'm like, you know, just keep this stuff away from me. I don't understand it. I can't do it. No, thanks. I'm good. So want to keep this story reasonable, uh, in terms of length of time here. But, um. I got, doing carpenter after college, and I, I met a guy and he asked me if I wanted to get involved in the sales thing, and it was a network marketing thing. I had no idea. So I was like, yeah, why not? You know, I'll, I'll check it out. Long story short, um, that worked okay for a little while, but not for anything long term. Then I got approached by another friend and said, Hey, you want to be involved in sales and go out to Boston with us and we're doing this stuff to help people, you know, quit smoking and, uh. And, uh, lose weight and manage their stress. I'm like, yeah, I'll try it. Why not? I did that. That didn't go well. Everybody that I went out to Boston with ended up going back to Detroit. And I was like, you know what? I'll just stay. And then I got involved with this guy at the gym. I, I was talking to him and he owned a, uh, commercial insurance brokerage and risk management firm. And, and I asked him for a job and he gave me one. And that, that one, I started out at 30, 000 a year, but it was a draw. So everything I, Got from them. I had to pay back until I was able to overcome that with sales. So that sucked. Um, that was a little bit

Track 1: 23:05

Wow. That's a lot of pressure.

squadcaster-f2e9_2_03-24-2024_121909: 23:08

Yeah, so anyway, I did that and that worked out fine. And then that that company was acquired. I got ownership in the second company which was cool. So I did that and that was, that was kind of a, a long part of my story. That was about 20 years. Um, in that time, I, I bought a couple of old homes and rehab them and, you know, and did some, some building type stuff. And that was really cool. Um, I enjoy that because I could spend, I spent about 2 and a half years of weekends. talking to, you know, some days or some weekends I'd go without talking to another human being. So I was just quiet. I was in the moment. I was doing the work and it was, it was, it was silence and it was, it was a beautiful thing. So anyway, um, I've, I've owned a restaurant. I've owned, uh, Parts of an insurance company. I own parts of the brokerage. Um, and so, you know, just just stuff, right? We're prevented or I'm sorry prevented. We're presented with opportunities I was presented with things that I could either say yes to or I could say no to I got my ass handed to me several times and that's fine and know, as we go along in life, you just learn that that's just part of the story. You know, if we want, if we want something more, that's just part of the story. Get your butt kicked around a little bit. And that's, you know, that's what happened to me. I've, like to say that I've had more failures than I've had successes, um, which is also fine. I, I, I kind of expect, you know, now, like, okay, I'm going to it. You know, now I'm going to write books and that's, that's what I to do and I'm sure we'll chat about that a little bit, but you know, I know I'm not going to be good at it. I know I'm not going to know how to do it. You know, I got to figure it out like, like else that, you know, needs to be tried. So I hope that gives a little smattering of the story, uh, Nadine and in

Track 1: 25:10

It does. It does. I feel like you did a great job of recapping 20 years of life. And I, I mean, I am wondering with sobriety or without sobriety, would any of that have been possible for you? Like this idea of trying your hand at different things. And you said you failed more than, you know, you succeeded. I feel like so many people are failure adverse or risk adverse that they wouldn't even attempt to try their hand at different things because they're so afraid of failure. And I'm just thinking back to when I would drink and I think a lot of people can probably resonate with this. I would drink because I was deeply unhappy with that. The way things were, I would drink because I felt like I was tethered to maybe a job or an experience that wasn't serving me. And it was a form of escapism. So going back to that question, I think I know the answer there, but like, could you have done any of this if you were still drinking or without sobriety?

squadcaster-f2e9_2_03-24-2024_121909: 26:09

definitely not. Definitely not. I, I, there's, there's a, um, that get installed in us. And this is my belief, but as we're sober, and as we grow, and as we change. know, we're exposed to things like, uh, discipline and perseverance and, you know, just not giving up and all of those things that allow us to try things and maybe not succeed, but also to keep going, you know, and, I would not have been presented with those things in terms of. Those tools and those components to live a successful life. Had I not gotten sober and started to hang around people who. I wanted to emulate.

Track 1: 26:59

I love that. I'm wondering if it's because, and like, forgive me if this is presumptuous. Is it because you've quote unquote fucked up or failed at life before that you're not afraid to fail? Like you failed. You know, like in your younger years, I'm sure you messed up a lot. And like, when you got sober, you recognize, and cause I feel like this is what's true for me. I'm like, I have already fucked up so much in my life. Like, I'm not afraid in my sober mind to try my hand at these other things. Like it could, it could never be as bad as it was then. Do you feel like there is some kind of connection there?

squadcaster-f2e9_2_03-24-2024_121909: 27:34

I think there is. Yeah, I think there's a connection there and there's also a connection for me and a big, a big part of me when I was younger and just getting sober was I wanted the people who I'd let down to be proud of me. I wanted those people to be proud of me and I, and I my life in, in such a way as, you know, and not that I didn't. Fuck up a whole bunch of stuff sober too. I mean, that's just part of life, right? It's, it's what it is. Um, so, so there's, there's a part where, you know, maybe there's some making up and that's okay because whatever drives us forward, in my opinion, whatever keeps us going and drives us forward, I don't care if it's, you know, I'm trying to make up for something or I'm trying to have my parents be proud of me until I can be proud of myself, you know, until I can, you know, And I don't say that from an ego perspective. I just say that from the perspective of having some confidence and having some willingness to, you know, continue going down what can be a really difficult road and, you know, the subtitle of my book, the unexpected joy of getting my head out of my ass. It wasn't the sobriety part, getting my head out of my ass, I mean that was a, that was a small part of it, but it's life, you know, and after I'm sober, I still have to get my head out of my ass, you know, I still have to figure it out and move forward.

Track 1: 29:02

Yeah, that's a great segue. So when you say in your book. When I stop fighting, I feel like most people think that they should be fighting. So what do you, what do you, how do you define this fight that you're referring to in this book?

squadcaster-f2e9_2_03-24-2024_121909: 29:17

I, I am, a maniac, I'm a fighter, I'm, I'm, it's how I'm built, it's how I was raised, you know, no pain, no gain. Um, it only hurts till the pain stops, you know, just keep going, don't, don't let these, you know, Oh, if there's not a bone sticking out, you're not hurt, you know, like that sort of stuff. So, you know, that's how I was raised. So that's how I approach life. And when I got sober. And, and the reason that I, that I titled the book this way is I beat the hell out of myself with life, and I beat the hell out of myself because I always had the ass kicking machine turned on, and I was always, know, off at myself for, for not doing everything correctly and, you know, how we can be really tough on ourselves. So, you know, especially early on and, and that's a, that's a difficult thing to overcome. So, so when I was about 8 months over and I'd say I was told this probably at 9 or 10 months over 8 months over, I went to college. I met my sponsor, um. Another sponsor, his name was Bud. Phenomenal, beautiful human being, just, anyway, he said to me as I was wrestling and fighting with some problem and you know, I'm bringing him all my stuff and we're talking about things, he said, Daryl, you stop fighting, the fighting stops and that is why I titled the book that way and why I My entire life, almost every day from that point on, has been how do I stop the fight with myself?

Track 1: 30:59

I love that. It's almost like, you know, we are what we attract, like you're bringing in more problems, the more that you're obsessing about having to confront said problems. And when you just release everything, then I think things tend to get better. And I also want to connect that back to what you had mentioned before around, you know, coming from. A blue collar family. I think like the mindset shift is really important as well. Because if you're only being shown certain examples of what success can look like, it's hard to sometimes shake that, right? It's hard to I hate to quote like rich dad, poor dad, right? But you have to. Two archetypes presented to you. One is like, take the safe route, right? This is the course you need to follow, what you know, what you're comfortable with. And then you have the alternative, which is like, this is the pathway to wealth, or this is the pathway to abundance. And it's, it looks like taking risks. It looks like obviously calculated risks, but being a bit more Um, flexible with your thinking. And I also can relate to that because I feel like in order to protect ourselves and other people, when they think they're helping you to protect yourself, you, you kind of get bogged down with like very traditional ways of thinking, and it's not necessarily the best way for you. And I, I, that's what sobriety has shown me, like getting sober. I'd shared this with you before. Like I'm starting to finally see some of the seeds I planted a long time ago flourish and blossom and it's because I have more clarity. It's because I know that the work I'm doing is, It's good work. And so I'm not afraid to, um, take risks. And I think that is really what I want people to understand. Like sobriety isn't just about removing the toxins from your body. It's about also removing the toxins from your mind, from your soul, from whatever you believe in, right? Like it, it really filters into all aspects of your life. And. I also had connotations, negative connotations around money. I always felt like, Oh, like if you have money, it's going to be connected to greed and just these negative associations. And that's not true because you can do so much goodness with money and with success. So how would you define success now? Because you're trying your hand at writing and you have this amazing book. Like what has, how has your perspective, how has your perspective of success shifted through the years that you've been working?

squadcaster-f2e9_2_03-24-2024_121909: 33:32

It's shifted immensely. It's, it's um, it was a very narrow, uh, you know, scope in terms of, When I first sober because I wanted financial success. I didn't really know how else to define success at that point. Um, you know, my dad said, oh, I'll get you a job at the assembly line, you know, probably around the assembly line, which, which, you know, is fine. And, and, you know, there's nothing wrong with that, but it just wasn't me. Like, I had to go out and, and I'm a risk taking person. And, and, you know, it's funny because, my wife is probably less. So, I'll jump off a cliff and she's grabbing me and pulling me back, like, no, don't do it. So,

Track 1: 34:19

the ying and yang in the relationship. I

squadcaster-f2e9_2_03-24-2024_121909: 34:23

it's incredibly important. Um, and it's great. And, and, and, you know, sometimes I prod her to maybe to take a little more risk, you know, like that sort of thing. So it works out really well. But, um, success for me today is and has been for a long time is, and this deserves definition. So I'll define it. But. It's, it's, uh, waking up in the morning with a smile on my face. That's what success is. And

Track 1: 34:50

love that so much. I really love that. Ooh. Yeah.

squadcaster-f2e9_2_03-24-2024_121909: 34:55

it encompasses everything. It encompasses, it encompasses how I treat my body, how I treat my mind, how I treat my heart and how I treat my soul. And, and so I can't wake up in the morning with a smile on my face. You know, seriously, if I'm, I'm not eating the right stuff, and I'm not paying attention to my health, and I'm not, and I'm not, for me, being grateful every day, and I'm, and if I'm not saying no to things that aren't, know, good for me, or those around me, you know, there's, there's a whole bunch of stuff that goes into that equation, but, that goes into, and honestly, financially goes into, you know, Waking up in the morning with a smile on my face and I have to pursue that if I want to, um, you know, achieve that in life and, and so, you know, if I'm, if I'm worried about where my next bill is going to get paid or how it's going to get paid, I'm not waking up with a smile on my face. So there's, so there's a ton that goes into that. And, you know, we can elaborate if you want or.

Track 1: 36:01

I would like to elaborate because I think obviously the most base level waking up with a smile on your face, I, I cannot tell you how much I love that because I feel like you said it encompasses so much. Waking up with a smile on your face, if you're not hungover, that helps, right? Like if you're not worried about blackout, the blackout that you had last night and the impact of that, like obviously that helps, but it's not the end because there are so many other things at play. And I think this is just a reminder that getting sober is almost like the first step. So If you were to give or offer any piece of, I like to stray from advice, but just what works for you in terms of how did you get to this place where you can actually wake up happy? Like, what does that really look like? And how are you able to get that? Because I think so many people want to wake up happy, but they don't even know how Where to begin or wake up with a smile on their face, I should say. And they, but they may not know like what the, and I obviously think people have to define success for themselves, but if you could for yourself, just kind of dive into what that actually looks like for you, I think that may be a good. Foundation for other people to like build from

squadcaster-f2e9_2_03-24-2024_121909: 37:10

Sure. Um, and that's, that's the most important part of the whole equation for me now is to you know, my experience and, you know, we talk about experience, strength and hope, right? That's, that's the key. So, I don't know what's best for anybody. I don't know what's good for anybody else, but I do know what, what has worked for me and. And probably one of the biggest things that worked for me was, was early on it was, it was, you know, my sponsor and it was the tables and it was the 12 steps, but it was, I had to pull apart my belief system and, and I like to sort of visualize it as I pull it all apart. I put all the little components on a table and I look at everything that I believe and I ponder what I believe. And I asked myself, is what I believe about. All this stuff in life and in the world and, and the beliefs that I've gathered to this point, what's it doing for me? Is it working? Is it not working? You know, am I happy? Am I and, and happy is a happy is a fleeting thing. So am I content? Am I fulfilled? Um, you know, is that hole in the middle of me? Getting filled up with some sort of, some fulfillment and, and just, you know, feeling good. So, so the first thing is pulling apart my beliefs. I have to understand what I believe and why I believe it and ask myself whether or not it's working. did that and I've, and I do that all the time. And, and I think it's really crucial to, you know, we're handed this stuff and told us, and we're told to believe it. But it's only because they believe it and it may or may not be working in their lives. You know, are they happy? Are the people that believe this stuff that are telling me to believe it happy? So, so I think that's really the first step and I, and I think, you know, the second step for me is exploration. I have to explore, um, I have to, to be open to new ways of thinking about things and new ways of believing things and then. And then direct my life in a way that aligns with a principled way of living. Um, I have to be, I have to learn to be honest with myself. I have to learn to, know, have some humility. Um, and, and be grateful, you know, I have to, and I practice gratitude and, and, now it's a thread that runs through my life every day where, where I'm grateful for my life and for living and for the people that are in my life and, and a lot of it also I'll, I'll end with this part, but, but I've got to take out the garbage. I've got to get rid of the stuff that doesn't work. And I've been doing that my whole life, uh, I've been sober. I was accumulating garbage for a while there, but, but since I've been sober, that's, that's, that's been a big part of my work. And sometimes, quite frankly, you know, and not that we have to, to, you know, say goodbye necessarily to, to people, but we do have to keep them at a distance if they're not healthy for us. And sometimes that includes family. It just does. And, um, you know, to, to not allow our well to be poisoned, um, and, and then you get to a point where your well kind of can't be poisoned because you're just observing stuff and you're not really, It's not hitting you. You know, there's not bombs going off all the time, and you're not getting shelled all the time, and you know, it's, it's, um, you're more or less observing what's going on, um, not to say that you're immune, but, but things change. So, anyway, I hope that, I hope that helps

Track 1: 41:07

it did. Oh my gosh. I learned so much from that I think getting curious. I was always a very inquisitive child probably annoyingly So and I going back to your upbringing because you said that you were raised lutheran protestant some of those beliefs I think I too was raised in a very religious household we were episcopalian and I would ask tons of questions and never really have You Answers that seems sufficient for me at that time. And I think. We're just often told to believe, blindly believe. And then I love the part where you mentioned the people who are, you know, distilling these values or these beliefs on into you, they themselves may seem very unhappy, whatever that looks like, but like you get the essence of they are not actually content. And so that I think lends itself to, even from a societal perspective, So many of us drink blindly because it's like a social norm, right? Like we're just, it's a rite of passage. What do you mean? Like everyone drinks. And I think when you decide to go against that narrative, many of us, you describe yourself as a maniac. I think I'm a maniac too. I think so many people who are sober are deemed as maniacs because we go against the common thought. And I don't see that as being problematic. I think it's more problematic to blindly follow like a sheep and not necessarily. Even question why? And so, yeah, I loved everything you shared. I'm curious. I always say I'm curious because I really am curious. I'm curious to learn though. what helps you then get to this place where like you're able to release those beliefs. Obviously you do research and you explore and you find other things, but like, I guess. My question is more so like, what do you believe in now? In AA specifically talk about higher power and like defining that for you, a common language that speaks to you. And I still like, am trying to workshop that for myself, if I'm being quite honest, because I grew up believing. And my higher power as God, um, Jesus. And then I sort of, you know, went against that and I don't think I'm doing enough or prioritizing enough work around finding that for myself. I do believe in a higher power. I just don't have it fully formed. So what do you believe in?

squadcaster-f2e9_2_03-24-2024_121909: 43:29

The

Track 1: 43:29

a big question. Yeah,

squadcaster-f2e9_2_03-24-2024_121909: 43:39

quote, unquote, believe in something and the more I embrace faith. Um, so I, I, I, there's so many things, there's just so many things to say about this, but um, there's, there's a saying that, you know, there's, there's 5, 000 or so gods being worshiped on earth today. And everybody believes theirs is the right one. And it's, it's an amazing thing to me and not, it's not a bad thing. And I know that, know, religion works for a lot of people and, and, you know, it keeps them on the road and, and it's, you know, it's perfect for them and their lives and that sort of thing. Um, Bud gave me a book when I was still a freshman in college and it's called the Ten Commandments. And it sounds religious, but it's not. Um, so don't let that. don't want that to scare anybody. It's, um, it was a book by Emmett Fox and, and I highly suggest Nadine. I, I, I'm going to send that one to you too. Um, so I think you'd love it really, but, but so it gave me, it was my first. It was my first opportunity to understand that, wow, maybe things that they, that I've been taught can be looked at in a different way, know, maybe, and I'm just going to use a really quick little simple example, but, you know, maybe thou shalt not kill helps me, uh, you know, also not. character assassinate, not talk behind people's back, you know, not do that can, you know, quote unquote, kill them, um, from the perspective of, you know, just a different way of looking at it. So, so there's, there's, there's different levels of, of our belief systems and, and, you know, where we can go and, and what we can believe or have faith in. Um, and the longer I go, I should say the less I believe, um, right now my life is centered around, you know, what I do, but my, the faith part of my life is, has gone from, and I'll start there, has gone from, you know, the God that I grew up with and when they mentioned, you know, higher power in the second step, when I first came in, I'm like, Oh, Lordy, the, you know, that God, the, The dude that's like up there with the big thing writing down all the stupid stuff I do and then he's going to send me to hell and all that stuff because,

Track 1: 46:20

that's where I'm going. Yep.

squadcaster-f2e9_2_03-24-2024_121909: 46:22

Yeah, I mean, I, I don't, I'm not sure I'm buying that cause, cause where does that leave me here? the earth, where does that leave me? It just leaves me waiting to go somewhere and I don't want to wait to go somewhere. I want to experience what I can now. And, so, you know, the, the tables became my higher power, you know, probably a, a telephone pole for a little while became my higher power. Seriously, just as I was sorting all this stuff out and it's

Track 1: 46:48

Um,

squadcaster-f2e9_2_03-24-2024_121909: 46:49

to go through all those. know, gyrations. It really is. And I think the more of those you go through and you had mentioned, you know, you're kind of working on that stuff now, but the more you go through, the more you can, you know, either embrace or eliminate and, you know, I think it's important to do that and ask ourselves what we believe and why we believe it. So, Today, and it's gone through, you know, all kinds of ups and downs. I've, I've studied Buddhism and Taoism and Confucianism and legalism and, you know, everything I've read about everything. And I, I'm, I'm, you know, I love exploring what other people believe. And it's just, it's just such a cool thing. And, I don't have to believe it all just because I read it doesn't mean I have

Track 1: 47:35

right.

squadcaster-f2e9_2_03-24-2024_121909: 47:35

it. I, you know, like they say in the, in the, um, in the program, you know, take what you can use and leave the rest. So my whole thing today is centered around faith, but it's not You know, the guy in the white robe up, they're going to send me to hell someday. Um, if I don't do exactly what they tell me to do, um, I, that's, that's not it for me. It's more the hole in me is filled and has been filled for a long time. And know that no matter what's going on. Everything's going to be okay, and there's been a lot of losses and a lot of difficulty and a lot of pain and, and, you know, and many people have died in my life and that sort of thing. But I also always know that everything's going to be okay. It's just that little centering piece inside of me. And that's, the root and, and the tree and the flowers and everything else of, of my faith. Today, and, and how I, how I get there is, I meditate, I, I, um, consciously, you know, do a conscious breathing practice every day, and I calm myself, and I quiet myself, and that calm and that quiet, you know, turns into that faith, and that pervades life, um, and it's a process.

49:07

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Track 1: 50:50

I love that. And I'm working on my processes too. I feel like most successful people I know meditate and they take those moments to recenter themselves. And as a busy body, that's very hard for me to do. But I recognize that it's, it takes, It takes, um, it takes a toll. I'll just put it on that. It takes a toll when you are constantly going and not taking inventory of where you are in that moment in that day. And I, I feel like I'm feeling more and more called to try my hand at meditation. It's just so hard for me to, and I don't want to make this an off topic conversation, but I've heard how important it is to really. Come into yourself, and I think just going back to, like, the conventional, like, or traditional religions, or at least my upbringing, I knew so many people in the church that were following the Bible or following whatever, um, religious, you know, I don't know, ideologies that they thought they were supposed to follow to the T, to the letter, and were not, like, people that I would say were kind, or compassionate, or, I felt like they were just very much, like, going through the motions. And I, I don't know exactly what it's supposed to look like in terms of having faith or even being a good person, I'll say, like, I don't think it's always black and white, but I think you get what I'm where I'm going here. I just think that it's more than just following the 10 commandments, for example, or like, I'm very curious to learn more about this book because it is open to interpretation. I always thought that as a girl, I'm like. Well, who's to say they didn't mean that, but anyway, I digress. Um, that, that's really, really nice to know, Daryl, that you are doing the work, it sounds like on yourself and then it reflects into the world as well. Um, so I'm curious, um, I would like to know, like, why did you write your book? I'm, as we kind of wind down here, what gave you the inspiration? What do you hope to impart on others as they read your book?

Darryl: 52:57

The book was, uh, it's been a long time in the making, um. I, I was, I was imparting a story to my wife one time, probably 20 years ago, and I didn't get married till I was 20 years sober. So, um,

Nadine: 53:12

Oh, wow. That's incredible. That's great.

Darryl: 53:15

Yeah. So, so, um, I was imparting, you know, one of my stories of my youth to her and, and, you know, it could have been even early sobriety because, you know, things don't just like, you know, all of a sudden I'm, I'm this perfect. Person, you know, at any time in life, but, but certainly right after I get sober, you know, I'm still doing dumb stuff. So um, that's just part of it. But I said to her, uh, when she was looking at me like, oh, you're not that guy. I don't even see that. You know, I don't see you being that or doing that. And I said, well, remind me to write a book someday. So, so that was 20 years ago. And, um, Um,

Track 1: 53:57

I love that.

Darryl: 53:57

probably wrote about two and a half paragraphs in that 20 years, um, you know, and it would just sit in my computer and I'd pick it up. And then finally in, in January of 23, I said, you know what, I'm, I'm just going to sit down and I'm going to do this. And about two, maybe three months, I had written that book. Um, and then within five months I had written two books, um, just cause, you I'm a maniac how I do stuff. And, um, so, Wow. And people, what I want people to get out of the book is I want, um, and I, here's how I, I talk about it is. If 20 years from now, like, you read my book, and 20 years from now something hits you, or 10 years from now something hits you, or 5 years from now something hits you, and you're like, you know what? I know what he was saying. And, and that helped me, or that helped improve my life, or I could relate to that, or, you know, something pinged inside of me that, put me in a different direction. That's, that's all I want. Um, that's all I want the book to do and it's, you know, it's not a, not a world changer. It's not a, you know, it's just if I can, if I can plant those seeds, you've mentioned that a couple of times Nadine about planting seeds and what it is. It's, it's, I'm trying to plant seeds in people to help, with any aspect of life, whether it's. A sober life, or whether it's a, you know, a person who's not sober, who just says, hey, these, these concepts work and they make sense. And, you know, this is something that I can implement in my life. Because, because I know we're, we're sober and, but there's a lot of people that. That need a lot of, of direction, you know, who haven't been through the sobriety thing or don't necessarily need to get sober. They just might be off track. So, so to put it in a nutshell, I just, I wanted to help people. I might steal that Darryl, like I want to wake up with a smile on my face, like truly, I don't necessarily need it to translate into a certain amount in the bank. I don't need it to necessarily mean that, you know, I'm living in my dream. apartment with my dream partner, but I want to feel excited about the prospect of life, right? Like every day we know is a gift, but I don't think that we take it as a gift every day. We're like, Oh, I have a million things to do, but like feeling good about the work that you do and like the reason that you're here and having purpose. And I think it's all connected. So I very much love that. I really want to leave us with a quote because I saw this and I was like, I'm wondering, I wonder what you mean by this. So you said, just like water seeks its own level, so does everything else, including idiots. I was one of those at that point in my life. Can I ask you about that specific quote, Daryl? Is that ringing a bell for you? Yeah, no, I, I think. It says a lot to me and, and probably the biggest thing that it says to me is something that I heard in, in, uh, early sobriety around the tables was, you know, you change the game, you got to change the players. And when we get sober and we're, you know, moving forward with that life, we're not changing the players, then we haven't changed the game. And, and that's how. You know, that's how I think about that from the perspective of, of getting sober and, and sort of, you know, just changing things up. And I think that's incredibly important. The other side of that is, you know, water seeks its own level and, and, and so do we. So if I'm upping my game, I'm going to be exposed to better things and better. And I don't mean this in a judgmental way, but just people who are. You know, maybe better for me and I'm probably better for them. Um, and I have to, I have to continually step up my game and I think, you know, that's a lifelong process. I, I, I look at it and look at it in terms of upgrading. I have to continue to upgrade myself and I have to continue to upgrade my life and I have to continue to. Um, be better, and then I'll attract things that are better. Um, even in relationships, you know, it was very important to me, and this goes with, you know, water seeks its own level, and so does everything else, which, you know, instead of finding the right person, about I try being the right person, and then the right person will be attracted to me. and I'll and and we'll attract. Yeah. Right.

Track 1: 58:35

That's

squadcaster-f2e9_2_03-24-2024_121909: 58:35

and we'll

Track 1: 58:36

so much to me right now. I'm just like, it's already cut you off. But like, that is where I'm at right now. Yeah. It's like people often like to say in relationships, especially like in seeking partners, why do I keep attracting the same, you know, person? Like sometimes you have to, if you're aspiring for a certain, um, quality of mate, then you have to become that version because otherwise if you meet that person, if you pray for that person, whatever, and you are not on the level that, you know, they are also desiring, then it's not going to work. So you have to prepare yourself to be the version of self that you are seeking, if that makes sense.

squadcaster-f2e9_2_03-24-2024_121909: 59:13

100 percent and that that is the water seeks its own level thing. It really is. That's, you know, because because we're always seeking, you know, we're always going to end up where. we are and, and the things that flow into our lives are going to flow in based on where we are. So it behooves us. And I know for me, you know, it behooves me to, do the things that improve me and improve my life. And, and, you know, with that, and this is a little off that topic, but I'm also improving the world when I improve me because Because it makes me, it makes me, it puts a smile on my face, you know, and, and I give a smile to someone who might be having a bad day, just passing them on the sidewalk or whatever, you know, like, it all, it all fits at all. You know, the more improvement I do, uh, you The better I am all the way around to myself and to the world.

Track 1: 1:00:16

I don't think that's off topic at all. I think it's very much, connected and I'm kind of nosy, but is that why you waited so long in the same subject about partners? Is that why you took your time, 20 years of sobriety to finally marry or like find that person for yourself? Do you think that was because you were improving and like leveling up and redefining what your success should look like so that you attract the level of partner that you felt that you deserved? Thank you so much.

squadcaster-f2e9_2_03-24-2024_121909: 1:00:44

Yeah, I do. And I don't know that it was necessarily conscious at that, you know, in terms of me thinking about it in that way, but it was, it was definitely, uh, part of not settling for. um, you know, to the extent that I could could help that and not being in a hurry and not pushing myself into something like that, where. You know, that decision can have lifelong consequences. So this is a good one. Um, so when my, now wife and I, um, we had a kind of a friendly dinner at one point, just a biz that we met in a business setting. Um, and, and so we had a friendly dinner one time cause I asked her out and she said no the first time, which, uh,

Track 1: 1:01:38

Wow.

squadcaster-f2e9_2_03-24-2024_121909: 1:01:40

it got them fairly bulletproof. But, um, anyway, uh, we had a friendly dinner and she. You know, she thought, like, why isn't this guy, you know, married and have three kids? He probably does. You know, what's going on? So, she said, why, why aren't you married? And I said, well. I haven't met my wife yet. And, uh, and that was kind of how I, I guess I had, but I didn't know it. So,

Track 1: 1:02:05

I love

squadcaster-f2e9_2_03-24-2024_121909: 1:02:06

a few more months to figure that one out.

Track 1: 1:02:09

And see, if you were the type of guy who was afraid to fail, like, you already kind of shot your shot and she turned you down, but then you, you know, followed up. You're like, I'm not taking no for an answer. And I mean, that just goes to speak levels to like the type of person you are and how. You know, now you're successfully married to this woman. And I think that's all connected. I love that so much. Well, Dara, this has been such an amazing conversation. I know that I walked away with so many gems that I plan on implementing in my life. Which is like really taking inventory of some of the beliefs I currently hold And thinking through why I believe them because I think we so often I myself included Blindly follow certain things that are not serving us And may have been imparted to us even with the best of intentions Best of intentions, however, are not really like fitting properly. And so I definitely want to evaluate some of that and then think through like what my higher power looks like or what my faith looks like, and then build some practices to sustain that because I'm at the stage of my sobriety where I think so many of us get stuck in this, like, I'm sober now, what, like I'm doing the work, but like, what does the work really look like? And. Why am I not seeing success or the rates of success happen at the speed that I expect in other aspects of my life? Um, and so I, I try to be wary of that, but I still find that I fall prey to that. So I'm at the stage now where, as mentioned, like I really am seeing things come to into fruition, which is beautiful. I'm very impatient. So I'm like, why is it not happening faster? However, none of this would be possible without getting sober. That's. First and foremost, and then secondly, okay, like I am probably going to take, you know, a page from your book. I'm getting in my own way. I probably need to stop fighting so hard and sort of release. Myself into just this idea that the work I'm doing, I know is good and it will come with time if I keep at it and I stay consistent and also like, I probably have my head in my ass. If I'm being real with you, so Daryl, thank you so much for coming on and I just want to make sure that listeners can connect with you. What's the best way to do so? Where can we find your book? And also, I know you have another book coming up. So please plug everything and I will include them in the show notes.

squadcaster-f2e9_2_03-24-2024_121909: 1:04:33

Thank you, Nadine. Um, I have a website, which is www. daryldittmer. com, which is d a r y l d i t t m e r. com. my book is available on Amazon. Um, and just when I stop fighting or you can, you can plug my name in there and the book will come up. Um, I'm on Twitter and you know, all the, all the, uh, the socials as far as, uh, if you look up when I stop fighting, uh, you'll find me on Instagram and Facebook and Twitter is under my name. so, you know, if you'd like to, to find me there, um, and, and if anybody is looking for any help or. You know, anything I can answer in terms of questions, you can email me, which is daryl at daryldittmer. and don't hesitate, I'm always willing to help out if I can. And I, I think that, I think that hits it, but thank you so much, Nadine, for having me on. I really, I really appreciate it. I really enjoyed the conversation. And, uh, my other book's coming out. My second book's coming out in the third quarter this year. So I'll, let you know, Nadine, and then maybe we can have another discussion.

Track 1: 1:05:45

I would absolutely love that. And I will plug everything as mentioned below. And I really appreciated this conversation, Daryl. So thank you for sharing everything with us today. And we look forward to having you come back on in the future. Thank you, Daryl.

Nadine: 1:05:58

much. Thank you. Bye, Nadine.

Track 1: 1:06:00

Bye.

1:06:05

Okay guys. So that's all I have to share. I also wanna say thank you for being here, and thank you for allowing me to hold space in your day as you listen to this podcast. If you enjoyed today's episode, please, please do me a favor and one, make sure you're following the show so that you can stay up to date with everything else that's happening. And two. Please, please leave a review as it helps more people find the show. I would appreciate even more if it's a five star review, but do what's right for you. Do what you think I deserve, thank you so much, and I'll see you next week. Bye bye.