The Sober Butterfly Podcast

From Dry Drunk to Emotional Sobriety with Dry in the Desert Founder Ellie St. Aubin

• Nadine Benjamin

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In this week's episode of The Sober Butterfly Podcast, we sit down with Ellie St. Alban, the proud founder and owner of Dry in the Desert, a virtual non-alcoholic bottle shop and events in Phoenix, Arizona. Ellie shares her journey toward sobriety and insights into the challenges and triumphs of running a business in non-alcoholic beverages.

We also discuss:
-The Challenge of Dry January and Its Limitations
-Transitioning from Dry Drunk to Emotional Sobriety
-The Ethics Behind Running a Non-Alcoholic Shop Business
-Why Alcohol-Free Drinks Mimicking the Taste of Alcohol May Be Triggering

To connect with Ellie:

To connect with Nadine:

Resources from the Episode:

FREEBIE Beginner’s Guide to Dry January (e-book)

FREEBIE Guide to Quitting Alcohol - 30 Day Transformation (course)


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Please note that this episode may contain paid endorsements and advertisements for products and services. Individuals on the show may have a direct or indirect financial interest in products or services refereed to in this episode.

Nadine, The Sober Butterfly:

Hello and welcome to the Sober Butterfly Podcast. The podcast where we uncork pun intended, the stories behind the sober journey. I'm your host, Nadine Mulvina, and today's episode is a special one featuring a remarkable individual who has not only embraced a life of sobriety, but has also found success in a very unique venture, a non-alcoholic beverage shop. Today we're joined with Ellie St. Aubin. Ellie is the proud owner of Dry In the Desert, which is a virtual non-alcoholic bottle shop and offers event services in the Phoenix, Arizona area. Ellie, I'm so honored to have you on today. How are you?

Elie, Dry in the Desert:

I am wonderful. Thank you, Nadine, and I am so honored to be here with you and getting to talk to you face to face for the first time, really. And yeah, thanks for that introduction. I'm so excited to talk about. What I'm up to and like how that relates to this whole movement and sobriety being more open and honest these days than behind closed doors. So I'm, yeah, super happy to be here and be connected with you.

Track 1:

Yes, I'm so for the transparency, the visibility and the inclusivity piece, and so once again, thank you for coming on. I'm thinking just because it's dry, January as we record this, is this like an extra busy time for you, Ellie?

squadcaster-ha8e_2_01-20-2024_100704:

Yeah, typically it would be and should be. And I've I knew that going into the month to where I didn't really overbook and like full transparency I have another part-time job right now that I'm actually like transitioning out of to. my dry in the desert business full-time and like really hitting the gas pedal on that. So I took it slow for the month but it's busy in a general sense. I'm sure you can relate to like online and just seeing how much people are posting about dry January and different beverages and like how to do it, how like motivation so it feels busy even if I'm not that busy with events and things like that. I have a lot of friends and family that still drink alcohol and when they'll try to do dry January, they feel like they can't go out and so they're like bored and anxious and I totally get that'cause I was like that for a long time too. But that's why I think having non-alcoholic beverage options is like so important. Even if there's alcohol there too, it's like that's the movement I wanna see more of is like in restaurants and hospitality places and just that the option is there and it's just as normal as picking an alcoholic option to where people don't have to feel like I'm going out and ordering a water and like, that's why I feel so otherly compared to everyone else there. Like, it's no wonder that we feel that way. So I feel like the tides are turning on that a little bit, but socially it's not always easy.

Track 1:

Really quickly unpacking some of that. It sounds like to me you were wise and decided to really focus on balance and protecting your peace going into dry Jan because it is such a busy time in this sobriety recovery space. And I wish I would've talked to you about that before I signed up to do like all of these events for Dry, January. And also, just a quick shout out to you, Ellie, because you shipped me. Some amazing bottles of Gruvi and literally as I'm doing my events, which is a blind wine, non-alcoholic tasting, it is a fan favorite. And I'm not just saying that because I'm talking to you like legitimately people go crazy for it. So thank you for sharing that with me so I could share it with my guests that come to my events. But also it's this idea that like, I don't wanna feel otherly like you mentioned. And then that's where, at least myself speaking, like in the past also attempting these challenges, I would cave because I'm like, well, this is boring. What else is there for me? Not feeling like there were as many options on the market. So I love this idea of just blending those two things, like this idea that like you can have different types of beverages available firstly, and then not everything needs to be the best time of your life. Like also being okay with just sitting in a little bit of discomfort and adjusting to a new, you know, maybe a new state, at least for me, like a new, literally, quite literally a new state of being because I wasn't used to going out and being sober.

squadcaster-ha8e_2_01-20-2024_100704:

Yeah. And I think that makes it clear of like what dry January really is. there's something to it.'cause there's people who have, their sober date is January 1st, so like, and they did a challenge and then they felt really good and they kept going and it's like, I think that's wonderful. And it has a place in the space and it's of course wonderful to like take a month off. Like, that's great for your health, great for many benefits. But I think when people almost look at it as a challenge, it's like they're white knuckling it, as we might say of just like, I'm just gonna take alcohol out. And then like. Suffer through these 30 days and then I can't wait for February 1st and I'm like, every day spent without alcohol is great because that's healthier for your body and your mind probably. But I just don't think there's much else to like gain from that. Like the alcohol is really just the tip of the iceberg, which I feel like is a common saying, like common knowledge that there's so much underneath. But I just don't think I changed anything about me until I started doing recovery work that, There's just so much more to it that we have to address ourselves and like work on or else there you won't see as many benefits, you know, like maybe a little bit of health benefits. But I think the biggest piece is like your mental health and your state of being, like you said, is like what really changes as we recover rather than as we are just alcohol free for 30 days. There can be a big difference. So yeah, I'm like, I'm all about dry January. I never completed one, but I'm like, any day you wanna spend without drinking is for you than drinking. So it's great. But, I try not to like push it too much.'cause I just think it's like you're either in the space of like ready to change. Or you're doing this for a health challenge and you complete it and wonderful. you're really like struggling through it, that it's just each person's own path. It's, for me, it's just like another day., I'm dry always. That's my important thing is being in more of the recovery and like mental health journey that I think is the most transformative, rather than just giving up booze for 30 days. I wouldn't expect anything about myself to, to change after that.

Track 1:

beautifully said. The white knuckling piece is so real because that's what I would do. I would do it to prove to myself when I'm doing these challenges that I don't have a problem. I would be like, oh, I can go 30 days without alcohol. To be real, Ellie, sometimes I could not go 30 days without alcohol. What I loved about challenges like Dry, January is it was like good intel for me to start recognizing, even if I didn't do anything about it in the moment, it was like getting harder and harder with time to ignore the fact that it was misery for me to go without alcohol. And then when I would cave also, I think I have this a small touch of perfectionism, right? So it's like if I did cave or relapse or whatever, I would regress immediately back to my old drinking ways because then it was like, well, if you can't do it perfectly, then you won't do it at all. So it's like all of these different things in culmination. But I love that you shared that because to your point, getting sober is usually just the beginning, It's like removing the substance is just where the real work starts to begin. And the transformation piece is so real. And it reminds me, have you heard of the term dry drunk before?

squadcaster-ha8e_2_01-20-2024_100704:

Yeah.

Track 1:

Yeah. So it sounds like a lot of people may be walking around being like a dry drunk. Do you wanna share what your version or how you see dry drunk? Like how would you define that?

squadcaster-ha8e_2_01-20-2024_100704:

Opposite would be like emotionally sober. Right. So basically that emotionally and in your reactions, you're still acting as you were drunk or in like a using of the substance space, which Yeah I can relate to for sure I'm in a recovery program, a 12 step program. I didn't see any like changes in my. Life until I started doing that inner work and reflection. So yeah, I can relate to a dry drunk means of just yeah, being alcohol free and like seeming to get better life. I feel like what it means to me. To like the person going it. Like maybe they're not aware of it, but you imagine yourself of just like all those things that you're like trying to heal by giving up alcohol, but by not doing any those things don't magically go away without alcohol. And I think the sad part, like the hard part really with alcohol, I try not to like demonize it or judge anyone who uses it especially in the non-alcoholic beverage space, like you really have to come to terms with sharing shelf space with alcohol and you're not gonna make any friends judging people who still drink

Track 1:

Right.

squadcaster-ha8e_2_01-20-2024_100704:

in a, and a lot of people who are drinking actually still drink alcohol. So there's a big market for just the people who are like putting things into their regimens. but in the sobriety sense I think that it's just hard to just quit and feel much different. I guess actually what I was gonna say or like what I was trying to come back to was sad part of alcohol is just the, that it is like an addictive that when we do feel, start feeling all those things underneath. Without it, it is very hard to break the cycle of going back to it and like you're saying of like going straight back to, well, I sucked at this, so like, this is how I'm coping with it. I think that's really the hardest part that I feel was like for me and what I can see at least from other people. I don't know, of course their personal circumstances, but I feel like that's sad part of it, that when we try to make changes, it's like the si the cycle breaking is really the hardest. Thing to get out of using that as your coping or like social habit or whatever it is that's most, that it's most prevalent in your life.

Track 1:

I totally agree with what you shared and. I would define it in the same way. I love the parallel. The paradox is, okay, dry drunk versus emotional sobriety. And the funny part is, I did an episode when I first started the podcast, so season one with Keisha over at Done with Debauchery. And it was all about taboo topics in recovery, in sobriety. And we touched on just this topic, like dry drunks versus emotional sobriety. And I had no understanding of what a dry drunk really was, and Keisha didn't either. But it wasn't until I really started doing the inner work like months after that interview or that episode that I began to see true transformation take place in my life. I think I was so much angrier in the beginning of my sobriety because I. To your point, as mentioned before, like I was white knuckling my way through it. Like I was just kinda like, oh, I'm not drinking. Check every day. It was like, did you drink? No. Great. You're doing it. But I wasn't really doing it. I was just bearing through it. And when I actually started working on myself and getting in contact with other sober people and like understanding how to work through my own trauma. Because you mentioned the iceberg effect, right? Like we're just scratching the surface by removing the substance or getting rid of alcohol. I was using alcohol as a symptom for other things I needed to work on. So when I really started doing that work, I saw tremendous growth in my life and. I actually feel like I'm emotionally sober now, so I'm so glad that you mentioned that because I forgot about that. The opposite of being a dry drunk is emotional sobriety. Like, I feel like no matter what, removing alcohol, onlyi has positive impacts, but it doesn't mean that you are in a place to actually change your life. It's just more so changing your state of being, but it doesn't touch on the psychological or the emotional impacts of that. Does that make sense?

squadcaster-ha8e_2_01-20-2024_100704:

Yeah. Yeah, and I would say like that is a big thing that I remind myself every day of that like, it's so great that my sobriety can propel my business. In certain ways in that I can share some of that with my audience, but they are two separate things. Sobriety and non-alcoholic beverage shop. Like what it is, a retail shop. And I'm lucky that it like fits and that, you know, it's not like my job is running a an alcoholic bottle shop. I could still be sober and do that, but, I'm lucky that it like, goes along with my passion that I get to intertwine them. But at the same time, those are the things I have to remember for me is that my sobriety is separate. It's most important to me in that I cannot be like some of my customers who still drink alcohol. Like, that's not for me. And I think those are things I had to learn over and over again. That brought me to sobriety now and like happiness in sobriety, like able to be happy that I'm sober. Where before, like the many attempts before I still never wanted to be sober. So I was doing it'cause it felt like needed to be and necessary, I wasn't, I didn't want to be, I didn't want that to be the end all be all. And now I'm like excited that I get that chance and that opportunity and have built a great sober life so I'm glad you said that just'cause it triggered that thought of I still have to keep that recovery piece separate and at the forefront. Because I work right alongside alcohol and I'm tasting things that taste like alcohol I do demos in total wine where I'm just like surrounded by these tall shelves of booze and just staring at them for hours as I'm sampling people on non-alcoholic beverages and people saying, what's the point of that? And, uh, no, we're here for the real stuff and like. You know, all day those comments. So I'm used to it now, but it's like, it's important for me to keep my sobriety top of mind.'cause that's different than my business or what dry in the desert is. That's just like me as Ellie, my sobriety, my program, my recovery. Not necessarily everything I share on the internet, but just something that to come first and that I wouldn't have all these other things that I have, I wouldn't have my business like without it because I just wouldn't be able to be that productive I want people to know that there's a difference than just like, oh, that's cool that there's like a non-alcoholic old fashioned. I'm like, yes, but like this is something liberating for me. So that's how I feel about non-alcoholic beverages for me. But that does not mean they work for sober people

Track 1:

I feel like, because you mentioned the 12 steps as a recovery program, that is something that you feel connected to. There are so many people that I meet within AA, for example, who look down upon, I'll say for lack of a better word right now, but look down upon drinking alcohol, free drinks that resemble or mimic the taste of alcohol. Do you have any thoughts around that? Because obviously I do, I celebrate and highlight feature different non-alcoholic brands because I like the inclusivity piece as we touched on at the beginning. But what are your thoughts and how do you respond to people that are asking you for the real thing? Like if you, they do a tasting at total wine and they're like, uh, actually can we try, because I'm literally having the same experience at my events. Like people will come and I even, oh my gosh, I even had this week someone come and they bought their own alcohol to my tasting. They're like, oh, they wanna spike my, the drink with alcohol. And I'm like, that's defeats the whole purpose of why we're here. So I know I just asked you two separate questions, but my first question just to reiterate is like, how do you feel being a part of, or there is no technical membership, but just in terms of like people who think that you shouldn't drink non-alcoholic beverages if you're in recovery, versus also responding to people who are asking for real alcohol at your events.

squadcaster-ha8e_2_01-20-2024_100704:

Yeah. It's a great question'cause I have so many thoughts on it and I could probably do a whole episode just on like that topic because my personal experience with it. When I first tried a non-alcoholic beer, I had like a panic attack that I had ruined my sobriety. I felt like I felt something from it because I think just like the body memory is so strong, especially with beer, I feel like those, that taste can be quite similar. And so I hadn't, at that point, I hadn't had beer or any alcohol for nine months, and I had that. And so it was like very jarring to have that taste in my mouth and like that feeling, that memory. So I freaked out and scared and like had to have someone talk me off the ledge that I didn't just like drink and ruin my time or whatever. And you know, after that I had relapsed, not like from that or anytime close to that time, but like later on I did drink, so I was still not ready to let alcohol go. And then now what I say is just that it's like empowering and liberating to have something where I can literally have my beer and drink it too, without having that. Worry that I feel like it's incredible that I can do that because that is something that's just so hard to let go of, like the ritual those things. So I completely understand the like, triggering piece of it people come to me and are in recovery or sober and have expressed to me that they are concerned about non-alcoholic drinks or that they have struggled to maintain sobriety, give them like five warnings before I, I'm like, if I'm doing a taste with them, like if it's a friend or something, I'm like, are you sure you want to taste something that tastes just like wine or a taste just like beer, like this tastes just like it. I need to tell you that upfront it can be really, it feels really weird I think for the first time. So I just think it's such a personal choice and I try to be mindful of that to where I'm not just like, oh yeah, you should try this. Like it's. So good. because I'm in recovery that I at least have that experience to be mindful of certain people's reactions to it. And I wanna cater to those people because that's all why I started this. And I think there's another piece too of alcohol removed beverages. So things that did contain alcohol, and then it's been removed even though it's like less than 0.5%. Alcohol by volume, they say the a ripe banana has the same amount of alcohol. For certain people and in certain situations they don't want any. And even though we might stick our nose up and be like, you're not gonna get drunk. It's literally no alcohol. But I think for some people, and like even for religious reasons, so many different reasons like if something did contain alcohol at some point and then it was extracted and there might be residual amount from fermentation. don't wanna drink that, then like I think on them, that's fine. I try to be not judgmental in that way either. I want to provide both options of things that are just maybe taste or like sparkling white teas where they just never contained alcohol. Again, it's like is my business. I'm not gonna be responsible for someone. Relapsing on a drink they bought from me or something. But like as a sober person in recovery, I try to do my best to educate on those things and those differences so that the person choosing the drinks feels empowered to make that choice and find something for that works for them. So that was a long-winded answer, but I always just say like, yeah, I'm both like the Drake song. I'm like, yeah, I'm in AA and I'm drinking non-alcoholic drinks. Like, I try to be confident. I don't go into AA meetings and be like. here, try some NA beers or like, here's my, I don't talk about drying the desert there, excuse me, or anything, but but in my personal life I can confidently say that like, yes, I'm, I do both and it's okay. I feel like there's a little bit more acceptance now. It's just not something you're gonna bring up in the AA Yeah.

Track 1:

You as a business owner, like your ethics are aligned to your business. I think that you being in recovery as a sober person really speaks volumes to how you treat your audience or your customers, like your consumers at the event. And you're never gonna pressure someone for the sake of your bottom line. Like, I really think that is important. So just kudos for that piece. And I think just going back to the dry drunk versus emotionally sober piece, I think before when I was a dry drunk, I would've felt more triggered from the taste of something like that. It would drive me to maybe crave it versus now I have no desire to. Have any altered state of consciousness. So me drinking is because I actually like the taste, whereas before when I used to drink it was because I wanted to feel something. So I think that was just a moment, that aha moment I had when you were sharing in realizing that I think my sobriety is not at risk or in jeopardy when I try these non-alcoholic beverages because I have no desire to ever drink again.

squadcaster-ha8e_2_01-20-2024_100704:

Yeah, I think that's an

Track 1:

Yeah.

squadcaster-ha8e_2_01-20-2024_100704:

to share out loud, like with your audience, because other people will feel the same way. I feel like, especially things that taste like alcohol, but there's so many of these like newer functional beverages that are their own kind of like herbally or like earthy tastes. There's you know, like moment or something like sparkling. Do you have one there? Yeah, that's exactly what I was picturing in my mind. The leche like so good. But it's like that obviously tastes nothing like alcoholic. It's like more like LaCroix, like better tasting, LaCroix better ingredient type of thing has adaptogens in it.

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squadcaster-ha8e_2_01-20-2024_100704:

So I think that's my true belief is that there is non-alcoholic beverages for every person that it doesn't have to be at like an NA beer. If that's something that don't ever wanna taste again because you're sober, then like great. That's why we provide a variety. And yeah, like you said, I try to be mindful at my events and stuff of having always something that is like a zero zero, always something that doesn't have adaptogens in it. Just like if there's pregnant women there, like who knows? And even though, even when I know like all the people that are gonna show up, I'm just like, people deserve, that's the whole point is that they deserve options. Not just like, I'm only gonna serve you these non-alcoholic cocktails and everything tastes like either. or Margarita or like whatever. It's like everyone has their own Yeah. Like past experience that's

Track 1:

you.

squadcaster-ha8e_2_01-20-2024_100704:

affect how they wanna feel and what they wanna taste and how they move forward.

Track 1:

Thank you. That's the whole point of this is there's something for everyone. And just going back to, you know, any naysayers, I don't wanna say naysayers, it's not nice, but people that may show up with the expectation that they still want to drink, how do you handle that? This is a personal question because I am still, you know, unpacking my events and people bringing alcohol to be non-alcoholic try January event. How's that happened to you and like, what do you do in those moments?

squadcaster-ha8e_2_01-20-2024_100704:

that yeah, is very interesting choice. Yeah, I haven't had that experience personally, but have thought about it because I, especially at first, I had those concerns. Or if we were to do a meetup at a restaurant and then someone ordered booze or something when it's like a parent that we're here for like an alcohol free evening, like how awkward that would be. And what would you, or would you have to say you're not allowed to do that? I don't know. So I I don't know if I have advice on that. I think that's. So strange because yeah, I'm sure you're like, this is an alcohol free wine tasting. I think in general, like I, I take it back to like the total wine demos and stuff and I'll have other people come up to me and be like, it breaks their heart when they're trying to like, talk up non-alcoholic beverages'cause they're a sober person and then someone like talks down on that and the whole, like, why does that product even exist? Like, what's the point they, a sober person sometimes takes that really personally because they're like, do you know what these mean to me? How these have like, helped me change my life, my drinking? Like how empowering it is to have a non-alcoholic beer. so I think us in this space understand that. But that's where it helps me to look at like that business side of it, of just that I'm like, person is like on their own journey. And like maybe that person that showed up. Is like wanting to be sober. If we think back to the times we wanted to stop drinking. And I think of it now when people tell me like, I'd love to stop drinking and then I see them post a glass of wine the next day and that's not for me to like pass judgment on. But I still believe them'cause I'm like, I was that person where I wanted to stop drinking and two days later, like I was wasted. So it

Track 1:

Yeah.

squadcaster-ha8e_2_01-20-2024_100704:

to like, because of their actions don't really portray maybe their desires. So who knows, like you probably know from the actual situation, but like maybe she really is interested in learning about these beverages and like cutting down on her drinking and maybe she's in a spot of not feeling like she can go to an event without booze. But if you look at it from like a whole story perspective, like I think it can be really a lesson to everyone who was there, everyone who hears this story, that it's like, yeah, our intentions, maybe her intentions were right, or like that she wants what you have and this isn't quite there, you know?

Track 1:

I have to give people grace and thank you for reminding me that this was like a humanizing experience. It was actually a couple, and because this event was in their building, I feel like it was like a crutch. Like they just were like, oh, we're gonna go run upstairs before we go down to this event in the rec room and we're going to just bring alcohol even though it's clearly a sober event. I made it a non-issue. I didn't want to like. Spend too much time harping on it. I think my face probably gave it away. I was like, oh okay, that's not what we're doing. But then I was just like, you're welcome to do whatever you want, but like, also who adds liquor to wine? So like, there's that piece too. That would be weird. So they didn't end up, you know, adding any alcohol or even taking out of their tote bag. Like you mentioned, some people do have intentions, but their intentions aren't always aligned with their actions yet. And it doesn't mean that they don't have a desire to learn more or participate in mindful drinking. It's just that like, maybe they're not there yet and I need to not pass judgment. But I was like lowkey judging. I was just kinda like, why are you here?

squadcaster-ha8e_2_01-20-2024_100704:

Yeah,

Track 1:

Like, what do you think this is about?

squadcaster-ha8e_2_01-20-2024_100704:

I'm gonna be honest in the moment I like, I don't know what I would do and I probably would've been the same way of just like, how dare you like bring that in this space, but being told as a third party, like what? the situation was, I feel like I can actually relate to them like a I've attended like a booze free wedding and I, yeah. And I brought my own alcohol, you know, like that kind of thing where like, they probably just didn't even, because they're not in our world, like, they're not even thinking like, oh, there's no booze allowed. This is just like a booze free event, so I'm gonna bring my own, I did that in so many different situations that I didn't think were a big deal but as the person hosting and all that, like, I don't even think it's really your responsibility to like, accept that or educate them or, you know, like it's not on us to. To do anything with that, so I'm sure it was like incredibly awkward and hard to know what to say or do,

Track 1:

the more you're talking, the more it's reminding me of like, who I was before sobriety. Because A, the humility piece is like, I would a never go to a sober wedding. I've been invited to sober weddings and declined the invitation because there was no alcohol, there was no open bar. So there's that piece. And then I would just pre-game, I probably would've pre-gamed for any event that it was clear like a baby shower. Even like I've, I have pre-gamed for a baby shower. I'm not exaggerating. Maybe this is my full circle moment, running into a couple that would bring, you know, alcohol to a, an alcohol-free dry January event. So I'm really glad that you mentioned that. And I do wanna touch really quickly as we wind down, just in terms of, I know you've mentioned, and I can assume like what inspired the idea for your business. But I'm also just curious to know what life looked like before for you before you decided to become sober. I know that you have over 500 days of sobriety. So like what led you to sobriety and then what sparked the idea for drying the desert?

squadcaster-ha8e_2_01-20-2024_100704:

Yeah. So much it started with like a simple drunken argument with my boyfriend at the time in like a hangover the next day. This was in 2018, that I was like, I just don't wanna feel that way anymore. That was my first time going to an AA meeting. And I spent three months sober and just was dipping my toe in, uh, of a recovery program. Then I felt like I could moderate drinking again. And so I started to moderate again for a short second, and then I found out I was pregnant. So I spent time not drinking again, like dry drunk where I wasn't still doing my recovery program, but had, you know, nine months sober. But as soon as my child was born, I went back to drinking. My lifestyle had changed because I was now a mom that I wasn't going out parties late nights, but was still drinking a decent amount and really enjoyed drinking at that time. Then there was Halloween night when my son was 15 months at that time, and it was time to go, so it was bedtime, and I was pissed that I couldn't stay and keep drinking with the rest of my family. and I was just like fuming on the inside. So nothing bad happened, hungover in the next day, but emotionally. I was like, wow, I just can't believe I wanted so badly to keep drinking over, taking my son home and care of his needs. I don't ever wanna feel that way again. I don't ever wanna prioritize that over him. again, was like, okay, I am done with drinking. A week later, find out I'm pregnant again. So I spend another nine months, whatever, sober. Then I have my second child and I didn't go right back to drinking. A couple months went by and I was feeling like the postpartum depression and just like depression in general, like the things that I used alcohol to cope with. And I had the wits about me to say like, if I don't get help, I'm gonna drink again. So I stepped back into a recovery room and that was when I went through all the steps and like worked with a sponsor and actually made changes to my life. And I still, again, like a year, let's see, so I made it a year and a half, including my pregnant time. So it was about like nine months, after that of going through recovery all that where I started to like get that itch again and feel like I didn't want alcohol to be off the table for. And it's so funny you said something earlier of like that you were doing the 30 day challenges to like prove something. I took a sip of alcohol again to prove to alcohol that it didn't have control over me, that I was like, I'm not afraid of you.'cause I was still living in that fear of alcohol. And I think that's a big shift of like having the fear of NA drinks. I feel like that's Fear mindset of like alcohol, having that control over us and over our mental game. So was deciding to start moderating again and the thing was that I did it, it was like over a summer, so like four months. But I was, it was so much mental work to decide when I could drink and how much, and you know, I had these 18 months prior that had created a beautiful life that was enjoyable. So I had this 18 month old voice in my head to me still. So I had a little bit of voice of reason to not go off the deep end. And I think it's that thing of like once you know about alcohol, once you've seen recovery, hard to turn that off and like go back out in that deep way. Obviously people do and it's not. Lost upon me that I was able to reel it in. But the mental like obsession with alcohol came back and that mental like bargaining with myself of how much I can have and when it's appropriate was back. And that's the part that like really controlled my life previously that I just said like, you know what, it's not worth it to squeeze in a drink here and there'cause it takes over even if I'm not all consuming, it's taking over my whole life and my mental capacity just to fit in a couple drinks. And the way I like to drink is not with a couple of drinks. That is zero fun. NA beer has a point to me one or two drinks that I can't understand.

Track 1:

And I think many people will relate to your journey, that mental fixation piece, my God, Ellie, diluting myself into thinking I could moderate alcohol, almost kept me stuck because I was like, I can do it to prove to myself that I could do it even when I couldn't do it. But then when I could do it, it was just like obsessing over, you know, calculating the number of drinks I can have per night. And when I can have my other, I literally remember one time going to dinner. With a girlfriend and mimicking her, like literally like mirroring her sips of wine to let me know that it was time for me. Like, okay, I can have a sip of wine now because all I wanted to do was guzzle mine Back and like, just gimme the bottle.

squadcaster-ha8e_2_01-20-2024_100704:

We can take that mental piece off of our plate and just enjoy ourselves and do the things we actually think are fun. Now my sober date is 2022, so you know, that was a four year journey to even get to that point, to make that decision again. And then I was, I say starting over on count, but I. of that work I did before led me to making that decision again. That it's, no time wasted. And that, even that last time going out and trying to drink was just like, so necessary. You know, not something I recommend of someone relapsing, but it was just for me, like that was part of my journey and showed me so much of like what I want out of a sober life. And now I try to work hard on that. And now I, that's why I say like, I'm happy I get to make this choice and stay sober today. As far as how it led to drying the desert was just like feeling like I had finally found community a little bit in recovery. I feel like that is, can be hard to. Make friends or like friends your age or friends you wanna do things with outside of recovery rooms that I had like finally found that. And I was like, well, like what can we do together? Are we gonna go get food or something? And the first thought that came to mind was like, will I ever get dressed to the nines with these people and be at a fancy gala? The thought was just like, why not? Like, shouldn't there be an alcohol free gala where everyone is informal at higher, there's alcohol free champagne in a glass, flute, not plastic. I want everything that I've always had or like that everyone else has just without alcohol. So it was just envisioning that social world. With alcohol completely taken off the table. So I started doing it just as small events, you know, just popup, just my friends and family showing up to show support, and grew from there. And events are hard work as you now know that it's like, it's so much work. And was not a past event planner or anything, like, that's not really my thing. So I still do them, but I love doing that like casual kind of meetup and nothing too crazy or like too much production behind it. I moved to that, the non-alcoholic beverage.'cause that was just the passion I had. And like I said, I just truly believe it's been liberating for me that I get to have those drinks and my sobriety. So I worked on the groovy side of things and got to see the like brand and industry part of it more than just the sobriety part of it. Like this is a, an industry and a business and possible and trending. So, you know, I got to learn the ins and outs of the business side of the non-alcoholic beverage industry, which is what led me like, I think I can do that here. And you know, I'm still figuring out my way as exactly how it's gonna end up looking. Just trying everything and seeing what I like and what I don't like and what the Phoenix and Arizona community want.'cause that's my biggest piece of the business. You know, it's about non-alcoholic beverages and socializing. And then the other half is about supporting my community where I'm at. I don't, you know, like ship anything out of state or like. not looking to go national ne necessarily. It's about like really supporting my community because I feel like it's been lacking thus far. I know pe other people will pop up and I'll have competition, and that's what I think is great about this space and about like not drinking, is that it? It really doesn't feel like competition. I'm like, please everyone come get non-alcoholic beverages for your store. Like everyone put it on your menu. I just wanna see it everywhere. That's the mission. So I can never be angry at people wanting to do the same thing because I'm like that's my ultimate goal is that everywhere has non-alcoholic options. That everyone feels comfortable bringing those to a party and that they're gonna enjoy the party and like that's it. They go home, they had their own drinks, they didn't have to think anything of it. We shouldn't have to be thinking the whole time like, I can't order a drink. wanna order a drink. That whole thing. We can take that mental piece off of our plate and just enjoy ourselves and do the things we actually think are fun. So I know that was a long-winded answer, but thank you for allowing me to fully explain my journey there.

Track 1:

sobriety recovery, it's not a linear process. It looks messy, it looks murky, but every experience, every like quote unquote failure or like relapse or whatever is just an opportunity for you to pick yourself up, back up. And it led me to this place that I'm at now because I definitely. You know, intended to quit drinking many times in the past. And it never stuck until it stuck

squadcaster-ha8e_2_01-20-2024_100704:

Yeah.

Track 1:

and it wouldn't have stuck unless I had messed up all the aforementioned times. So I think a lot of people relate to that, and I love that you're keeping everything within your community. I think that is so powerful. And this idea like competition doesn't exist because brands that come in or other businesses that will come in have the same ethos as you, is so powerful because you're serving the greater community. So it's like, it's not competition. What's meant for you is for you. And what's serving the community will serve the community. So I absolutely love and respect that so much.

squadcaster-ha8e_2_01-20-2024_100704:

Yeah.

Track 1:

It's all about connection. Have you ever thought about retreats? I don't know why I could see you leading a retreat and I also have never been to Phoenix, but I think of like, no, I think of desert obviously, and I'm like, that would be an amazing place to go and unplug and like sip on some non-alcoholic bbs. I don't know if you're, if. Ever heard that or thought about doing a retreat, but I feel like you have such a common presence, like you would be great at it.

squadcaster-ha8e_2_01-20-2024_100704:

thank you. And I, you're putting the thought in my head now, I'm like, oh, I don't need another thing to like plan, plan out and you know, like how it is with events, you know, you're like obsessing over every detail and like all that I yeah, I mean that, you make a good point. There's so many beautiful places here in Scottsdale, Sedona, like, you know, so many places close by Tucson. That and I guess I am thinking of that, just not necessarily as hosted, but yeah, a destination event. Yeah, we'll see. I definitely use Instagram as my, like end all, be all right now. So if I do any of that I will let the people know for sure. So my Instagram is dry in the desert, just all one word together. So I do have a virtual bottle shop right now that does local delivery and pickup options in the Phoenix, like metro area. So if you're following me, I'll post if I'm doing like popups and stuff. So sometimes I'm popping up in Scottsdale or Gilbert or wherever in with other. other events, and that gives an opportunity to shop in person. I will bring like a mini bottle shop for those popups. But yes, anytime you come out and for anyone listening to, like if you're in this space, if you're in recovery or like just wanna connect, dmm me there too. And yeah, we can hang out. So it doesn't have to be. the shop or like at an event, just, I'm always down to make more community and maybe we go to a place that has good mocktails or na beers here and yeah, just connect. That's what it's all about. So anytime.

Track 1:

Thank you Ellie for coming on. I really appreciate you.

squadcaster-ha8e_2_01-20-2024_100704:

Thank you so much, Nadine. I love you, your content, like everything you stand for. So thanks for sharing and allowing me to be on too.

Okay guys. So that's all I have to share. I also wanna say thank you for being here, and thank you for allowing me to hold space in your day as you listen to this podcast. If you enjoyed today's episode, please, please do me a favor and one, make sure you're following the show so that you can stay up to date with everything else that's happening. And two. Please, please leave a review as it helps more people find the show. I would appreciate even more if it's a five star review, but do what's right for you. Do what you think I deserve, thank you so much, and I'll see you next week. Bye bye.