"We Have What You Want" - How To Handle Jealousy Or Envy In Sobriety (and red flags to look for)

"We have what you want" is a common expression heard in AA. But what exactly do we (sober people) have that you (others/non-sober people) want? In today's episode, Nadine delves into a nuanced topic – the experience of others being jealous of your sobriety, exploring the implications and ways to navigate this unspoken challenge.

We also get into:
-The three things people are most jealous of and why sober people have these things
-Jealousy versus envy, defining how  to distinguish one of the other
-3 red flags to look for to determine if someone is jealous of your sobriety
-How to pivot and address jealousy in sobriety

Resources mentioned in the episode:
Atlas of the Heart: Mapping Meaningful Connection and the Language of Human Experience by Brené Brown (Amazon)

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Resources from the Episode:

FREEBIE Beginner’s Guide to Dry January (e-book)

FREEBIE Guide to Quitting Alcohol - 30 Day Transformation (course)

Partners:

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Transcript

0:00

Hello, hello and welcome to the Sober Butterfly Your sober resource for Inspo Stories, lifestyle, and Travel. I am Nadine Mulvina and today is a solo episode that has been on my mind for quite some time. I feel. I feel vulnerable. I think about sharing on this topic of jealousy, as you may have been able to tell by the title. And I think I'm nervous, anxious, a little vulnerable for a number of reasons. One being I don't wanna be perceived as self-absorbed or conceited. oh, everyone is just so jealous of me and my sobriety. no, that's definitely not what I wanna put out there. I also feel a little vulnerable because I'll be sharing some personal stories and anecdotes in connection to this topic of jealousy today. And then finally, it's just not a topic that I hear too much about in the sobriety or recovery spaces. I think people allude to this idea of losing friends in sobriety. This is a common expression I've heard, but I think that's more aligned to maybe lifestyle shifts or a lack of support as opposed to outright jealousy or even subtle jealousy. So I think it's actually really important to explore why some people may be jealous of your sobriety so that we can recognize some of those red flags and pivot as needed. And if you're not sober, this is also helpful because you may be able to identify why some people's jealousy of you intending to get sober may actually prevent you from getting sober. Interestingly enough, one of the ideas that sparked this episode was actually an expression that is commonly used in AA meetings, and I kept hearing in meetings we have what they want and they never really understood the depth of this expression. What is it that we have that they want? So I'm gonna break down what it is that we have sober people that they want or may want. In general, people are jealous of three things in life. Now sober people also happen to have these three things. So the number one thing is your happiness, your joy. People who are perpetually happy, people who always seem to bounce back despite failures or depressing moments. When you're no longer drinking a depressing substance, shocking, it shows you just glow differently. You exude this level of happiness that other people may want to also have. Which brings me to the second thing that people are jealous of. Your confidence, your power, your personal power. Most people do not have confidence in themselves, hence they feel the need to drink to mask that sense of inadequacy or those insecurities. Especially in social settings. That's why I love to commonly refer to alcohol as a social lubricant. They think it unlocks a part of themself that they can't access themself, so they drink to become, or at least pretend to. Exude this air of confidence that they don't really feel that they have. So that's the second thing. Your confidence, your personal power. And then lastly, people are jealous of your achievements, your success. Yes. Even your bestest closest friends can have jealousy for your achievements in life. And later on in the episode I'm going to explore ways in which you can tell if people are jealous of your achievements, these sober milestones that you're hitting, or just, you know, we know this when we get sober. We optimize our lives in so many ways. So you may see success in areas of your life that you never would've been able to accomplish had you still been drinking and. Please believe me. People are paying attention to that. People are noticing that. And so that can sometimes create this sense of jealousy. So as mentioned, three things people are typically jealous of in life. This is not just for sobriety, but all sober people, in my opinion, have. Demonstrated successes in these areas or gains in these areas. So that's your happiness, your competence in your achievements. I'm gonna break this down some more later, but this is just a quick rundown note that I didn't even mention money, by the way. And that's because even people with money, wealthy people, rich people can be jealous of you for those aforementioned points. So before we get into all the ways people may be jealous of you and your sobriety, I wanna take a moment to define jealousy in contrast to envy. I too make the mistake of conflating the two. So for example, like I may comment on Insta. I'm so jealous when I see my friend living her best life in the south of France, right? That's an example of me making the mistake of saying, I'm jealous because according to social psychologist, Brene Brown, that's my girl, Bebe, oh, she's commonly referred to in my heart. But Bebe would. Actually define this idea of you being jealous of your friend's vacation as envy. In her book, Brene Brown's book, Atlas of the Heart, which the best way I can describe that book is it's like a dictionary of emotions and she really breaks down like the explanations of said emotions and how they can not just impact our lives, how we feel in connection to other people and how we therefore behave and interact with other people. Brene Brittany defines envy as when we want something that another person has. She then goes on, to say envy involves two people typically. So say for example, your best friend, she gets engaged to the man of her dreams and you can't even find a guy on Hinge to ask you out on a date properly. Hinge for people who may not know it's a dating app anyway. Maybe you see some like beautiful influencer posting beautiful travel pics all over the world, while you can barely afford to get a babysitter to watch your kids for, I don't know, like a fun girls night out. These people have something that you want, but the distinction here is that just because they have what you want does not mean that they're actually taking those things away from you. So being able to properly identify that you are envious, not jealous, but envious of your friend, getting engaged, that can help you do a number of things, for example, can make you not become bitter towards her. She, didn't get engaged to hurt your feelings. And two. You can start to realize how important the goal of settling down maybe for you or dating seriously. And then finally, I think this is crucial. You can then start to reallocate your energy toward that goal. Simply put, envy can often serve the purpose of making our life goals clearer. So going back to that phrase in aa, we have what you want. It's actually meant to be a message of hope. Motivation, encouragement to anyone that's struggling with alcohol addiction or drinking excessively. So it's like you're challenging envy in a good way. And the primary implication is that members of AA have found a way to achieve and maintain sobriety, which is something that you know, you may be seeking. So as mentioned, envy is more of a two person emotion and it's triggered by a social comparison. We won't feel envy when someone is doing something or has something that we don't care about or we don't want. So for example, if someone is an amazing chess player and you don't care about chess, then you are not gonna feel envy towards them, versus if. Someone makes a big return on an investment and we also wanna excel financially that may turn into a feeling of envy.. Envy is someone has something that you want and. It's not that you don't want the other person to have it, it's just that you want it to, so it's like you have it, I want it. We can both have it. Unlike envy, jealousy is a three person emotion and it often occurs when one person fears losing another to a third. So going back to my girl Brene and how she defines it. Jealousy. Is when we fear losing a relationship or a valued part of a relationship that we already have. So it's, I have it. You're gonna take it away from me. I'm threatened by the loss of this potential person or thing, Now whether the threat is real or perceived when you think that someone you love or not even love, someone that you have in your pocket, whatever. When you think that someone you. Already love or have may replace you with someone else or something else, you will feel jealousy. I hate when people are like, oh, I'm not a jealous person. I'm not a jealous person. Like I get it. Like maybe you don't identify with being the type of person that is constantly jealous, but we have all experienced the human emotion of jealousy. I think the best way to put that into frame is to think about maybe being at a party, right? We've all been at a party with our significant other. You think that your person is flirting with someone else. Hello, jealousy. This can also apply to platonic relationships. Your best friend is hanging out with some other friend that you don't know like that, and you're like who is this chick? As mentioned, anyone can feel jealousy and not necessarily have to connect with this idea of being a jealous person. Interestingly enough, jealousy is very closely tied to a feeling of inadequacy or being less than. Keep this in mind for later when we discuss people being jealous of your sobriety. I have to reference the onset feud between two co-stars on my favorite show in the early two thousands Charmed. So we have Shannon Doherty, sorry if I pronounced her name wrong, and Alyssa Milano. And long story short, Shannon was supposed to be the star of the show. Okay? This girl came from 9 1 2 1 oh fame. She had a cult following from being a teen star and Alyssa Milano also was a child actress, but I think less popular. Anyway, when the show was launched, Shannon was supposed to be the Stars mentioned, and all of a sudden, here comes Milano. She's, more outgoing, sparkly, I don't wanna say she's more beautiful. They're both beautiful girls, but she was younger, so maybe that had some kind of impact as well. Anyway Alyssa's getting all of the attention and the publicity that otherwise would have and should have been Shannon's, should have is in terms of how I imagine Shannon would see it. Now, I can't verify for sure that Shannon was jealous, but she did end up leaving the show and deep down, I bet she thought her light was dimmed. Dimmer compared to Milano or Alyssa and that she should have rightfully been the star of the show. This probably happens all the time in Hollywood, but that's immediately what I thought of in terms of feeling inadequate or lesser than compared to someone else. And that kind of allowing jealousy to rear its ugly head. Jealousy appears when there's a threat, when there's a rival. Emotions are on a spectrum, right? So if you are only mildly jealous of someone or something, you may not actually do anything, but if you perceive that the threat is high, you may act, you probably will want to disrupt the situation. AKA Shannon leaving this popular syndicated network show. So while both jealousy and envy involve wanting something that someone else has, like an opportunity, a relationship, a house, whatever, it's usually only with jealousy that you'll have thoughts like. Why am I not good enough for that role? What do they have that I don't? Are they going to leave me for someone else? So enter sobriety here. And now a quick word from our partners. It really feels like you're having a moment, pun intended. When you're sipping on the lovely and refreshing moment. Now, what I love about moment is that not only does it taste delicious, I have my favorite flavors. I love the blood orange. 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And then in the evening if you want to wind down after a long busy day and enjoy a delicious mocktail without the hangover, then Moment is great for that too. One of the best parts for me with Moment is I feel like it's a really conscientious brand. They donate 1 percent of all their sales to mental health non profits so you can feel good about supporting greater causes as well. Head over to drinkmoment. com and use my code TSB23 to receive 12 percent off your very first order. Let's be moment buddies. We can both have moments together. When I think about how sobriety has transformed my life, I can't help but think back to the Maybelline commercials. I'm feeling really nostalgic today. Like back in the day it was like, I dunno if they still say this, but it's like maybe she's born with it. Maybe it's meine. Like I think maybe she's born with it. Maybe it's a sobriety. Like I kid you not like that's what. I think about anyway. People who stop drinking depressants, shockingly are happier. We talked about this, so going back to this idea of people being jealous of your sobriety, and now that we understand we have common language around. Being jealous versus being envious. Let's just take a pause and think about, okay, what would envy look like if someone's envious of your sobriety, which I think is healthy. So envy would be people noticing that you seem happier, you seem more confident, you seem more successful, whatever, in sobriety. Sobriety has led you to this happier life that brings so much more fulfillment or contentment and peace. And other people recognize that and they recognize that they may want that for themselves. Even if they don't make the distinct connection between you being better, I'll say, and sobriety, they notice, right, that something is different about you and the best way, I think to help people. Change their relationship, especially if it's toxic to alcohol, is to show them by example. Like I mentioned, I think people being envious of your sobriety is fine. I think it's healthy actually, versus if someone is jealous of your sobriety, that is problematic. And remember I said at the start of the episode, people are jealous of three things. Your happiness, your confidence in your successes or achievements. So jealousy really. Creeps in here, jealousy towards someone's newfound. Happiness in sobriety can arise for various reasons, they are usually rooted in personal insecurities, societal expectations, and individual struggles and stories, so I do not want to generalize too much here, but the main thing to remember is that jealousy typically arises when someone feels threatened or they may feel that they are losing you. So I know what you're thinking. How does me. Getting sober and finally finding true happiness without a substance pose a threat to anyone. Well, it may be helpful to evaluate what your relationship to that person looked like before you got sober. Were you guys drinking pals? Were you party friends? Were you the person that they could always depend on to have a good time, a k, a drink, or do whatever. If you answered yes to these questions or any of those questions, then that person may be jealous of you. And it's not necessarily because they want what you have, but it's because they want the version of you that they can no longer have, that they were comfortable with, not this happy granola version of you. They want the chaotic, legendary version of you that they love and you hate. And to make matters worse, you now expect them to be happy for this new sparkly sober version of you. Distinguishing between someone being envious and jealous of you is critical because once you are able to pinpoint that, someone may be jealous of you and your sobriety. It's tricky to navigate from here. I used to be of the mindset that like anyone that wasn't truly there for me supporting me, snip, snip, Bye-Bye, you're gone. And so I've pivoted somewhat later in life and realized that you shouldn't always just cut people off without giving them a chance to. Change and show you that they are truly invested in the relationship and want to do better. The question that I often think about in connection to people being jealous of you and your sobriety is, do you keep this person in your life that is jealous of you and your sobriety? Or do you kick them to the curb like you kicked your bad habits? This is tough and I'm so sorry I cannot answer that question for you. I feel like it is so individual, it's so individualized and personal, so I can't answer it, but I can give you some key red flags that you can look for to determine if someone is jealous of you and your sobriety. I think I've gotten to a place where I can like recognize the signs pretty clearly, but if you are struggling and if. Throughout this episode, you've been thinking of like a specific person, maybe, or people, and you're like, Hmm. are they jealous of me or are they envious? Or am I, am I tripping? Don't gaslight yourself. Like, let me just give you some key red flags to look for. Okay. The number one red flag that someone may be jealous of viewing your sobriety is making frequent comparisons, and I'm not talking about comparing themselves to you per se, although that could be a sign as well, but I mean that they're constantly comparing. You to the old version of you. The version of you that was drinking, the version of you that was cringe, the version of you that was not thriving, was depressed, was using alcohol in a really toxic way. and their intention is they wanna highlight all of the bad moments or memories as opposed to recognizing some of your achievements, your sober milestones, how you look better or just any of the personal successes that you have now achieved in sobriety and pay special attention here to. The setting, like how are they doing this? If they're doing this publicly in front of other people, that is like a huge red flag right there. They want to diminish you. They wanna embarrass you, they wanna tear you down in front of other people so that you can feel lesser than, so that you can feel inferior. And it's often under the guise of it being a funny story, right? Remember that time that you passed out? In the trash can and almost died good times. I miss that. So that is just like my favorite way to pinpoint that someone may actually be jealous of me and all the progress that I've made in sobriety because it's definitely carrying this undertone of sarcasm or insincerity when they are telling this story. Oftentimes out of context, like how do we get here? and at my expense. Or at your expense. So pay attention to that. It's not funny. And girl, I don't remember that because I was blackout like, come on. So why are you telling the story for the umpteenth time? So yeah, making frequent comparisons. And it can also be included with them, right? So if they're constantly comparing all of your. Progress in sobriety compared to like where they are in their station of life, like they're still uncomfortable with maybe their drinking patterns and habits and they commonly refer to that. I would say that's probably more envy though. That's why I was leaning more on, like comparing you to old you because they may just recognize that they have an unhealthy relationship with alcohol. Now that you are holding up a mirror like your light is. Reflecting their own choices, and they may not like that and may want what you have as opposed to wanting to take away what you have that they don't have. Okay. Anyway, so frequent comparisons. The second thing that you can look for in terms of red flags, that someone is jealous of you and your sobriety is unsupportive reactions. This is probably the most obvious, but I want to make it obvious to us as well. So if someone's showing a lack of enthusiasm or support when you share, especially when you share good news or. Accomplishments oh my God, like this is my 90 days of sobriety and you're met with this flat. Oh, okay, cool. Good for you. Like reaction? Yeah, they're probably jealous. And the jealousy here maybe because as mentioned, they feel like you are evolving, you're changing too much maybe too quickly and they can't keep up and therefore may lose you. So yeah, if people are just meeting you with a very flat line response to something that you're really excited or proud of, that could be a red flag. Another connection to unsupportive reactions is no reaction. And what I mean by no reaction is if you have people in your life, especially people that knew you before you got sober, and what life looked like for you before sobriety, and they don't. Ever ask you about your sobriety? That is a red flag in my opinion. I feel like when people completely overlook how hard you've worked to get to this place and never check in never ask you how's your sobriety going? Like how are you feeling? Especially if you hang out with these people in social settings and it's just not even. A consideration, then yeah, they may be jealous of you. I have people like that in my life and I'm learning how to navigate that full disclosure. It bothers me though. It bothers me that people never ask me. How my sobriety is going, especially because I've built an entire community, brand business podcast around my sober lifestyle. And I have quote unquote, friends who never, like any of my posts, never comment, never share, and so that to me. It's a red flag. All right. The final red flag I wanna talk about is just competitive attitude. Like I'm an s so I think I'm naturally competitive by nature, but if someone is always trying to one up you and your sobriety or prove themselves superior, then yeah, that's a red flag. So that may look like you sharing. Something that you've done positive due to becoming sober, and they immediately deflect the conversation to what they're doing that's better than you. And it won't be so obvious oh, good for you, but I'm doing this. But it is sometimes that obvious. It's oh, like maybe they give a very minimal response, like we talked about, like minimal reaction, and then they immediately detour the conversation back to or towards something that they are doing that is way better. So yeah, those are just some of the red flags that you can look for in determining if someone is jealous of you versus maybe ous of you. The value in identifying if someone may be jealous of you, is just recognizing if you wanna maintain some of those relationships, I. Recognizing jealousy allows you to address any underlying issues, maintain open communication with your friends, family, or peers, and then form healthier relationships that are built on understanding and support. It also helps with setting boundaries. As mentioned, I'm not gonna tell you what to do. With some relationships that you may be wondering now if the person is jealous of you. I will tell you though, that boundaries can solve like 99% of problems. And so if you have this sneaking suspicion in your gut that someone. Is actually jealous of your sobriety. Start setting those clear boundaries from now and that can actually be cr crucial to you maintaining that relationship and that person in your life if you feel like there's value in having them still around. And I will say that going back to some examples that I had, like I've definitely held resentments towards people who I feel have been. Jealous of my sobriety in the past, but they also think that, remember jealousy is because someone feels that a threat has been posed. So I do believe that most people are jealous because they think they're going to lose you or the version of you that they are comfortable with. And it's not because they necessarily always wanna see you lose and they wanna see you down and they wanna be better than you. Although that has been the case in some relationships also. But I think the majority of people just need a transition period. They may need to grieve the old version of you so that they can fully embrace the new version of you. And so giving people that grace period can be really helpful. And the way that you give someone grace period without you now starting to form and hold resentments against them for their lack of support is by setting boundaries. So boundaries, and then some more boundaries. And lastly, it can help with. Providing support. So once again, it is not your job to help someone get sober. It's not even if you're a sobriety coach, like people are going to get sober when they are ready and able to get sober on their own timeline. And so instead, you can show them support by living your best sober life. We shine by example. People see that. They're already recognizing that they're already wanting that. So it's just now a matter of using yourself as a source of inspiration and guidance for anyone that may be struggling with their own relationship to substances. And once they get to a place of emotional maturity to recognize that they may be jealous or envious, then they can pivot accordingly. so in summation, I feel like I'm writing a paper in summation. Jealousy and envy, but especially jealousy is a really complex emotion and people may not always be conscious of their feelings. So you wanna make sure that you approach the situation with knowledge, first of all. Now, hopefully you have a lot more information about the two, and you wanna approach the situation with empathy, which can lead to a willingness to help and understand other people. So I appreciate you guys for tapping into this episode. I hope it wasn't too taboo. I, I really tried to approach it from different perspectives, like, you know, humanizing the emotion of. Jealousy because it is a real human emotion, and we have all experienced jealousy and envy in our lives, and I hope that we start using envy properly. Like instead of being like, oh, I'm so jealous of you're a new puppy. It's like, no, I'm so envious of your. New puppy. So anyway, I hope this episode helped. If you liked it, you know what to do. Go ahead and let me know. On Insta, you can find me at the. Sober butterfly. I love, love, love getting dms from you guys, especially when it's about my podcast and the episode and how it helped you. So please let me know, like I will respond. Um, it may take three to five business days, but I will respond. And then lastly, I just want to encourage anyone who has not done so to leave a review for the show. Five stars, please. Five stars. It just really helps the show grow. And yeah, make sure you're following me on all the things. I will plug everything mentioned in the show notes for today's episode. oh, really quickly, if you're listening to this episode in real time, today is the last day of dry January, and I'm really happy that dry January is like this mainstream event or challenge. Now, most people I think I talk to at least know about it and they share about it. Um, but ooh, New York sounds. Um, but I often wonder, is it too mainstream? Um, is it super commercialized? I, I love mocktails and I love a alcohol-free cocktails and all of the cool things they're doing, but I can't help but wonder, Carrie Bradshaw voice. Have we dried out All meaning from dry January? Okay. I'll leave that with you. If you have been doing Jja and you're like, okay, I can drink again. It's, it's about to be February. Maybe don't, maybe keep going. Just a thought. If you're itching or burning, you have this burning desire to drink, that's fine too. If you just white knuckled your way through the month, that's fine. But don't forget, forgive yourself. But don't forget, keep a journal. That's how I was able to take inventory better. Um, I would go through my journal notes when I, when I was ready to get sober. It was just really great data that was staring at me in black and white. So, anyway. I digress. Wishing you guys the best end of month, beginning of February is Black History Month, so I'm gonna be talking about some black stuff next week. love you guys. See you next week. Bye.