The Sober Butterfly Podcast

Why Community and Representation Matters in Sobriety with Danay Jones, Founder of Sober Girls Houston

• Nadine Benjamin

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In this episode of The Sober Butterfly podcast, Nadine sits down with Danay Jones, the founder of Sober Girls Houston, for an insightful conversation on the journey to sobriety and the creation of a supportive community for sober women.

We also get into:

  1. Life Before Sobriety:
    • Danay opens up about her life before getting sober, sharing personal experiences and challenges she faced while navigating addiction.
  2. When the Party is Over:
    • Delving into the realities of addiction, Danay and Nadine discuss the moment when the party lifestyle loses its allure and the journey towards sobriety begins.
  3. Founding Sober Girls Houston:
    • Learn about the inspiration behind Sober Girls Houston and how Danay founded this empowering community for women seeking sobriety.
  4. The Importance of Representation:
    • Danay and Nadine highlight the significance of Black representation in the sobriety community, discussing the unique challenges and perspectives faced by Black women on their journey to recovery.
  5. Supportive Networks:
    • The conversation explores the role of supportive networks in the recovery process, emphasizing the importance of community and connection in maintaining sobriety.
  6. Empowering Women:
    • Discover how Sober Girls Houston empowers women to embrace sobriety, fostering a safe and inclusive space for growth, healing, and self-discovery.
  7. Looking Ahead:
    • Danay shares her vision for the future of Sober Girls Houston and her ongoing commitment to supporting women on their journey to sobriety.
  8. Closing Thoughts:
    • As the conversation comes to a close, Danay and Nadine reflect on the power of vulnerability, resilience, and hope in overcoming addiction and building a brighter future.

Connect with Danay and Sober Girls Houston:

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Nadine Mulvina - TSB:

Hello, and welcome to the show. This is the sober Butterfly podcast and I am your host, Nadine Mulvina. And today we have a very special guest. We have Miss Denae Jones in the building, or in the studio, virtually. In the house. In the house. I was going to say in the house, actually, but Denae, I feel like this is a long time coming. We've been friends on Instagram for a while. I've been admiring all of the amazing work that you're doing with Sober Girls Houston. And I just really am excited to have you talk a little bit today about So I'm really excited to have you on the show today because we're going to talk about a parts of your story and be what building community looks like in sobriety, because we know that connection is so important. So I'm really right. Thank you for being here. And we were kind of talking about backstage how you're not in Houston anymore. We'll get into all of that. But you're 90s in Tulsa. So I want to hear your on that as well.

Danay @soberinhouston:

Yes, absolutely. We can definitely get into all of that.

Nadine Mulvina - TSB:

So, okay, Denae, let's just jump right into it. I would love to kind of frame this episode, just learning a little bit more about what life was like for you before sobriety. So I know that you've been sober for quite some time, but what does life look like for Denae in terms of some early associations with drinking? Or I keep it open drug of choice. Like for me, it wasn't just alcohol, but like alcohol was the main thing. But yeah, what was life like for you before getting sober?

Danay @soberinhouston:

Yeah. So like I moved to Houston when I was like, basically 21, I was 20 going on 21. And before that I had lived in Alabama, a very college town. We have the university of Alabama there. So like I've parallel my life with drinking as like the college atmosphere. Right. But just started earlier, because I was going to high school in Alabama, and it was just automatically just a party lifestyle, a small town, but you could just try everything. So when I moved to Houston, which was this big city, I just wanted to be a part of everything. There were, different type of parties on different sides of town, and it was just like, wow, there's just, so much to try to learn, to find out. And so I think once I turned 21, it really got out of control. It was more not just on the weekends. It was as soon as I got home from work, I used any excuse I needed to drink, it's raining. All right, let me get some wine. It's been a busy day, right? Let's go ahead and go to happy hour. But happy hour just really never ended. And it just became like a total routine. That's usually how it starts. You just start with every once in a while till it becomes every day. And I was working with a lot of medical doctors. So there were like drug reps, right, that were offering to pay for happy hours and paying for, those few moments that they could learn about the physician. I had never experienced that type of Experience going to these really bougie, fancy restaurants, as a 21 year old. So it was just like the culture, the fast pace that kind of lifestyle.

Nadine Mulvina - TSB:

I can relate to parts of your story just in the sense of going to college in a smaller town and then relocating to a bigger city. And. Right. Like a shift, it seems where it goes from this is fun. This is normalized because I'm young to, oh, this is like a daily occurrence that May be unhealthy, but maybe you're also not in a place where you're ready to confront yourself. Yeah. With yeah. Nobody else is right. Especially, like a young, being in your young twenties or being in your twenties and it sounds like your profession lended itself to also drinking. And then when you said happy hour, I'm just like, I don't know why I've never had this realization before you said happy hour, but like the couple of times you said it, I was like, it's never really happy. Like it's happy when you get there, it's never really an hour. So it's just it's this continuation usually for people like me, at least where it's it never ends happy. It's never just an hour, is what I realized. So was there a moment we often, say rock bottoms, did you have anything similar to that? Or a situation that led you to sobriety?

Danay @soberinhouston:

Yeah. I was in Houston for over 15 years. So, especially like I said, when I turned 21, it was just like, you're 21. So of course you can drink and go out and party. But of course these were bigger clubs and, bigger atmosphere than I was used to. And that's a lifestyle all in itself. The scene of being out at clubs and things like that. So for me, I kind of stayed in that, for almost like 10 years or so, at least over a decade. Because like you mentioned, like happy hour, nothing about it was happy, but all your friends are still doing it every day. The circle that I kept, they were still getting up and going out. So it just felt like that's what we're supposed to be doing for a while, but there were many times where I would get I went and did some site care because I had to be hospitalized because my mental health was also just all over the place. I was arrested a few times. And even with all of these moments, you would think I would say, okay this might be a little bit. This is a lot. This is extreme. I'm an only child, so it's just me and my mom. My dad passed away from an overdose when I was like 14. And my mom also was an addict, and she's been sober now since I was six. So even knowing it's hereditary, it's in your family. These were still not enough warning signs for me. It finally took for me during Covid it to have no other choice but to sit and look at myself and try to figure out what goals do I have in life? Who are you? Who do you want to be? There's nothing but comparison and things like that during that time. And I realized if you want to do something with your life, you're gonna have to make a change. And the only thing that's holding you back is alcohol. The only thing that's keeping you from reaching any of your potential is drinking. The thing that causes the most problems between you and your family and friends is alcohol, and I had tried a few times before this, but this time I was done. I was done.

Nadine Mulvina - TSB:

That's really powerful. I'm really sorry to hear about your dad passing away. I'm also an only child. My dad also passed away. So I have a very close relationship with my mom and the hereditary aspect of addiction runs deep in my family as well. It's interesting though, because I'm curious to learn, like when you've had these run ins with the law or the confrontations, but you know, we've all had drunk fights with people or arguments. Right. That are disrupting our life. You were making excuses for alcohol because like, how do you overlook that? Because I too have been in situations, very compromising situations where it's alcohol was obviously the common, but yet I didn't, I wasn't ready or didn't want to confront my addiction or my relationship with alcohol. So how did you kind of. I guess move forward from those situations with knowing that alcohol was a part of that. Or did you make that connection?

Danay @soberinhouston:

Right. I mean, I feel like early on I've always had friends that were older than me, like at least five or 10 years. And so when I would go out with them, they would always say you need to calm down. You're doing too much. They always kind of referred to me as the baby. And so In my head, it kind of babied me as well. I kind of felt Oh, I'm young. I'm cute. I'm the baby. This is normal. And even when, like you said, those aspects of getting arrested or having those moments, I would kind of put it off as I just got too messed up that night. I can control it. And I also really believe that to be a real alcoholic and also from my experience with my mother, from what I remember, she drank every single day. I very vividly remember her having a cooler in the back of her truck all the time. Always full. It always had her beer in there. You know what I mean? She never went moments, hours without the chance of having alcohol. So for me, I'm thinking if I only drink, I get like really cute. And I go take myself out to dinner or on dates. And then I come back home and just keep drinking until I black out, or blacking out was always the goal. And I kind of feel like that was, very trivialized in media. It's all we've known growing up. So it was hard to see it was a problem because you're taught so much that it isn't, yeah,

Nadine Mulvina - TSB:

like You dismissing your relationship with alcohol because it didn't look the way that your mother's relationship presented itself. And so it's easy to sort of mask. I did the same thing where it was like I'm not sitting at home by myself drinking, even though I didn't at certain points, but like also like I use age youth as an excuse to ping you on this trajectory of it's, different. I'm different. I like reality is we know. That by nature, alcoholism is a progressive disease, right? So it's not going to just hit you in the face day one, but if you get it, it's over time that you may be in a similar situation as someone that you love or care about who's also afflicted by this. So it's an environment.

Danay @soberinhouston:

Yeah. Is your, let me ask you this is, does your mom or like your grandfather or grandmother also suffer from addiction? Like on your mom's side, anybody in her family?

Nadine Mulvina - TSB:

Yeah. It's yeah. It's all in there. It's my my mom actually came on the podcast. This season. I love that. She's not she doesn't embrace the same terminology, but she admitted that she had a problem with alcohol. I am, I'm fully okay with saying that I'm an alcoholic because I feel like it keeps me humble. It keeps me grounded in doing the work. I don't really care about the label of it. I just need that, like not delude myself into thinking that I don't have a problem, but just at the very least like I have a problem. So that and then her mother also definitely my famous Caribbean, not to blame it on the Jamaican side things, but definitely I think culturally it was more accepting to drink, rum, for example, straight. So yeah, it's definitely something that very much is prevalent on my mom's side.

Danay @soberinhouston:

Yeah, I think that's cultural too, because it's cultural also because like my grandfather also had a problem with addiction with drinking and it was part of their culture. Like they were from Alabama. So, I remember being really little me and my cousins, my grandfather would take us to the park and we would pick dandelions for him. And I remember Oh my God, this really sweet moment, my grandfather picking dandelions and we'd bring them to him. He's going upstairs making dandelion wine. And selling it to his church congregation. You know what I mean? And this was new to my generation, but my mom lived this, you know what I mean? So, when you see it, like we were talking about our grandparents, like they see it, it just keeps on doing the same cycle. And I think the same for us, we saw it. And so we do the same cycle, but we're also always judging ourselves and comparing how deep of a addiction we have oh I'm not upstairs making wine, so I'm good. Yeah,

Nadine Mulvina - TSB:

I definitely think that that plays a role, but tell us a little bit about what life was like getting sober in COVID when you were, when it sounds like you were forced to Confront yourself and reckon sit with yourself around what's been going on behind the scenes.

Danay @soberinhouston:

Yeah I mean, I spent a lot of time trying and failing, because one of the big things for me and also a reason why I really created Sober Girls Houston, I felt like I was having a lot of FOMO. Watching all my friends, you got social media watching them go out. And I was just like, damn, I can't do that anymore. Like jealousy of it. And, kind of trying to brainwash myself and make myself think that you can still go, you just need one or two, which would never happen. Right. So there were plenty of times where I tried and I would start to lie to myself. I would say, Oh I don't need this or I don't need that, but still continue to do it. So finally, when I was during COVID, it was, I had lost my job. Both of them. I had to move back in with my mom. And I'm like living in this house with my mom feeling what is happening with time? Am I 15 again, 16? And I was definitely drinking more because my job was doing like zoom happy hours cause we couldn't get together. Right. Yeah. Right. So as soon as the zoom was over, I've got this whole bottle of freaking vodka. Of course it's not going to go to waste. And there was one particular day where I came downstairs and my mom was just, she couldn't look at me. She couldn't really talk to me. Something was off, and I had seen that look before, so I knew it was something I had done. And She just said, I don't know what you were on or what you were doing last night, but I would wish that you wouldn't do it anymore while you're around me. And that was it for me, because I was completely done with hurting the people I love, having people look at me with despair and sadness and just, I got so used to understanding when people's shoulders would drop just with disappointment, the body language. And I was sick of that shit happening to me. They didn't deserve it. I deserved more. And so that was the time when I said no more. And this is my longest period of sobriety ever. And I'm 37, I think it's like, everybody's rock bottom is different. Everybody's.

Nadine Mulvina - TSB:

That's beautiful. I actually love your rock bottom moment because, I think so often we assume it's, oh, you lose your house, you lose your job, whatever, but like When you lose the respect or the patience of someone that you care about, that can be just, if not, sometimes more impactful. And you're actually bringing me back, I never even thought about it like that the disappointment, because you can't even remember, that's like the worst part, right, where you black out and you have no recognition, but you just know, like you said, you just look at someone and look at someone and see how you've let them down or hurt them, and that, I don't know. Actually, like I'm getting a little emotional. Like I hated that now. And it's you don't know what to do, how to fix it until you fix yourself. And then that's the part I was always missing. Right. Cause I would never take. Inventory of the real impact I did to then say, okay, alcohol is the culprit that means drinking that was never on the table, right? It was just like, I'm not going to get so drunk next time. And then of course that never happened. Yes. It was just like, right. That took me back to a place that like, is not a fond place, but it's necessary to recognize those moments.

Danay @soberinhouston:

The shame monster is

Nadine Mulvina - TSB:

what it is, but the thing about it is shame keeps people stuck, right? Because then it's you feel so bad and when you have an unhealthy relationship with alcohol, then it makes you want to drink more to alleviate that shame when you need to sit with, you need to sit, you need to sit your butt down and feel the feelings. So that you can get to the other side, but that's the really hard part, and that's what I think the perpetual cycle that keeps so many of us sick. So yeah, something in your mom's eyes that day, it sounds like really got you to a place of realizing, okay, I don't want this for myself or for the people around me that I care about. So then what steps, what were your necessary next steps? Walk us through those.

Danay @soberinhouston:

Yeah. Like I said, this wasn't my first time. It wasn't my first rodeo. Before when I had tried, like I had to get hospitalized many years back before this. And when I got out, they gave me anti abuse, which was, the drug that you can take that if you do drink, you will get sick. Right. So, right. I had experience with that before. And I thought about getting back on that again. But it was again during COVID and that was just, Too much of a hassle. I couldn't get seen all that. So I was literally stuck with nobody but myself. There was nothing but will and determination. I couldn't get medication. I couldn't get a doctor. It's COVID. People are trying to survive at the bare minimum. So I just changed my habits. I understood that it's just like a mechanism of the same thing over and over again, just like smoking, just like anything else. And you replace that time when you would usually drink with something else, like a hobby or, move your body or something like that. So I really worked on that. Working out, eating well. I became obsessed with making my own meals. I did whole 30 where, you completely change the way you eat your relationship with food. And did a lot of self checking in, I would write on a mirror Every day, my goal for that day, I just focused on me and myself only. I didn't give a fuck about what anybody else was doing, what they thought about what I was doing. I didn't even ask their opinion. It was a total only me moment. So I was just very much In my own until I felt comfortable enough to speak about what I was doing. I think you have to get to a place where you feel comfortable letting someone else know because you don't even know who your circle is yet who you can trust in this fragile state. So just that was a completely different way of handling sobriety than I did before for me. And I think that helped a lot.

Nadine Mulvina - TSB:

I feel like the beauty for you was that you were given a little bit of freedom. the space to invest in yourself and pour into yourself in a way that would be meaningful. And I believe that, I have an addict brain and the beauty of the addict brain for me is that I tend to obsess about things. And it could be good things or bad things. So when I was drinking, I was obsessed about drinking and parties. When I was going to get my next high, basically, I wanted to feel something. Versus when I got sober, I poured into myself in other ways. And so it sounds like you poured into yourself and you got really fixated on addiction, but in a healthy way, like finding alternatives as opposed to caring about what the world thinks or caring about like anything that was related to alcohol. Do you believe the idea of removing triggers that come in the form of the mantra people, places, things like, did you have to like, did you have to change some of your routines and like the people that you wouldn't maybe associate with COVID and stuff? Yeah.

Danay @soberinhouston:

People, places and things is super important. I was lucky enough to get a job like towards the end of when, like 2021 maybe like after the year after COVID started. So I was able to get a job. I was able to save up and get a new place. So everything was new for me. It worked out perfectly. That wasn't part of the plan, but it was God's plan because I had a new environment. I had new space, new people, and I could introduce myself as a sober person. These people hadn't seen me pass out in my bushes outside, so I could be the person I always wanted to be starting That day. So yeah, people, places, and things was super important to me. I couldn't take certain routes that I used to take to get places because I would pass that liquor store that I always go to. And it took my body reacting for me to realize I couldn't do it. Like I would turn on the street and I would, My palms would get sweaty. My stomach would get really tight, like when, you're about to pick up, you know what I mean? Like you get that adrenaline rush and you're excited and all that. And it would start to happen as soon as I would hit this street. So I had to start taking longer ways to get places. And I had never done that before. ever tried that, never even knew, that would help. And so, yeah, I had to change everything and people. That was a big thing. If you're not here to support my sobriety, you're not here in my life. Yeah. And that was, it was a lot easier said than done.

Nadine Mulvina - TSB:

So what does that look like for you with relationships that you had before that you let go?

Danay @soberinhouston:

Yeah, for me, it was more like they would say, I would say I'm being so I'm sober. I'm trying to be sober. I'm working on it, blah, blah, blah. But like hanging out with them, they would offer, I know you say that you're doing this, but I think you'll be fine with one drink or How long have you been sober? You've been doing pretty good. Why don't you go ahead? And so weeding out those people, because a lot of them were the ones I least expected, right? Like they were the ones who I thought were my ride or die. And then, it's late at night and you just want somebody to be fucked up with you. Or people that I realized didn't value my company if I wasn't intoxicated,

Nadine Mulvina - TSB:

I feel like shifting dynamics sometimes plays a role. People don't like that because it makes them uncomfortable or it's less fun for them somehow, but then it forces them to look at themselves. Exactly. It forces them to look at themselves. And if I have to be the butt of the joke, if I have to be like, at the expense of the entertainment then you're not really there for me. You're not really like the person I thought you were. Or maybe I valued that relationship greater than I should because shifting relationships is hard especially you pointed out some people that you didn't anticipate would respond that way. I think that's the hurtful part, too, when you, because we, I think we all know our party friends are, quote, unquote, just party friends. This is some time, but when you think it's a real friend or a real person that's there for you, and then they don't show up the way that you need them to, that can be, I think, really difficult.

Danay @soberinhouston:

Right. And especially when you're trying to get sober because, we're so raw and vulnerable during that time like you feel everything for the first time in a long time. So when somebody really hurts your feeling that you hurt your feelings that you thought was a very true and dear friend. I feel like you feel it in a different way. It's more of just like this ultimate betrayal because you're feeling like I need you now more than ever. Because I don't even know who I am, but I feel like you're my person. You're my friend that you might know me. So please support me. And instead to get, just treated like, Actually if you're not intoxicated, your opinion doesn't matter. Or if you're not going to get drunk with me, then your position in this friend group doesn't, it's not there. That shit is hurtful. It can make you feel like, your character is wrong or the way you handle drinking or social experiences is wrong. Because you're getting treated that way. So you have to change your mentality, your thought process, what you believe in friends, your value. Sometimes sobriety is across the board change everything about your life. But if you really focus on you and what you're about, it can be beautiful. And it usually is. It's so beautiful.

Nadine Mulvina - TSB:

I've never heard anyone say they regret getting sober. I can say that if it doesn't exist, come on the show. Cause I want to talk to you. I want to touch on FOMO because you cited that before as a trigger point for you. And I feel like that's like you said, we're so vulnerable and raw in the early wee hours or wee stages of sobriety. So what did that look like for you? And then how did that lead you to finding community. Also, I'm curious to know, I'm adding layers here, also curious to know, did you know any sober people before you got sober? Because I didn't know anyone, like sober friends that you would actually want to hang out with.

Danay @soberinhouston:

Right. That's a good thing. I remember why you just said it. And it's on my mind. I do remember when I first got sober, I made a vision board of all the things I wanted. And one of the big things on there was sober friends, right? I didn't have any I didn't have any sober friends and I didn't even know what a sober person my age really looked like,

Nadine Mulvina - TSB:

I don't know why I just always imagined the worst. You look so lame. Anyway,

Danay @soberinhouston:

I'm so lame. Seriously. And when I did go to AA because I was court ordered for a while before I decided to get sober, I would get drunk before I would go to my AA meeting. I would go to happy hour, get some margaritas, walk in buzzed, and I would sit there and judge them. Everybody's so lame or they've had such a hard life. Of course they were alcoholics. You don't, if you don't see your representation, you think. It's not there, and that's why I think women like us, black women, younger women, us making a platform, speaking our truth is super important because someone else is seeing this and not even knowing that it was possible, changing their thought, their mind, But okay, that was a layer. What was the question? I missed it. Yeah,

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Nadine Mulvina - TSB:

I asked you three questions in one. I wanted to know, you answered the one about okay, did you really have, know anyone that was sober that you would have wanted to know? That was one question. Then I was just to know like FOMO, how you reframed how you saw FOMO because I know that was a trigger for you before. So yeah, I think those were the two main things I was looking at.

Danay @soberinhouston:

I'm a Gemini. I've always been a very social person. It's just who I am. So, like the thought of being sober to me meant that I couldn't go out at all. I thought sobriety meant that you just sit at home all day, you watch TV, you don't do anything, you don't go anywhere because, I was also thinking from a mentality that I can't be around alcohol and not drink it. Yeah. Yeah. Like I was like, that's not even possible. So I've only left with these little options that don't include alcohol. Not knowing that at some point you can, and there are other options. So I would, be on my phone looking at my friends, out having the time of their lives. Or they would text me and invite me places and, some of them were, with the best. intentions, right? But they can't control their cousin that they haven't seen forever that comes up to them and is trying to buy everybody shots. That's an awkward fucking moment for everyone involved. And so trying to navigate that and feel comfortable was hard. I get really bad social anxiety. So That was like my biggest trigger, too, because preparing to go out was triggering. I had to change the way I did for when I got ready. I had to have my meditation. I had to, practice my breathing, make sure I have enough time to get ready so I don't get anxious or stressed out or feel like I need a drink to take the edge off. You just have to find new tools to handle stressful situations. Yeah. So, but yeah, the FOMO was definitely the worst. It was definitely the worst.

Nadine Mulvina - TSB:

How did you start Sober Girls Houston? What, how did that come to be?

Danay @soberinhouston:

Yeah. So there's the app meetup. I don't know if you ever heard of it where you can just go in and type in your interest. Of to me. Right. So, it was like maybe a few years before I decided to get sober, I went on there because I was diagnosed as bipolar. And so I was looking for bipolar meetups for black women, other women that had the same issue, the same medical condition. And so I finally one day was like that really worked out for me. I was able to find other people. Maybe I should do something for sober women, because again, I was looking for community. I was looking for sober friends because I didn't have any. All my friends were going out and getting drunk, so I needed to find something different to see what that would look like. And I remember when, like the first woman signed up, I freaked out. I was like Oh my God, like even knowing there was just one other person in this huge city of Houston that had the same thought and was interested in a non alcohol centered event. That shit was crazy. It was crazy. It was absolutely insane. But finding that community was something that I didn't expect to change my life the way it did.

Nadine Mulvina - TSB:

That's amazing. So it started literally with one person also being like, Hey, I want to connect to I'm sober. Were you looking specifically for black sober women or was it just sober women or like what was the importance for you to find as we talked touched on before representation in sobriety that kind of aligned to maybe some of the values and the experiences that you had.

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Danay @soberinhouston:

When I made the group also during this time, I was going back to school, so I was in school learning about chemical dependency, learning about addiction, all of this stuff. So when I decided to make the group, I was also thinking of more like a support group or because I had been, leading these groups at my, my facilities that I was doing for school. So I really thought about just I wanted to reach the masses, right? So I wanted it to just make sure it was women centered, which was my only goal. And that was from my experience because in AA, the men prey on you in there. I don't know if you've ever experienced that or if you haven't. Girl,

Nadine Mulvina - TSB:

girl, listen, okay, and that meetings are to coerce you into dating somebody that you have no business like, sorry, I just got here. Okay, wait, time one. Oh, you might say a meeting in person was a coed meeting. And I sat down and It was like a big enough space to where there were empty chairs, basically. Decided to move from where he was sitting, come sit directly next to me, and then started passing me little papers asking me to go out with him as I'm trying to listen to people share. I'm just like, what is happening? That was my first impression of AA and it almost ran me out the door because I was just like, I don't like that. And then at the end of the meeting, he came up to me and was like, all in my face, asking me out and another woman had to come save me. She was like, he does that. Just, go basically go away. It was crazy. Anyway, sorry. Time in,

Danay @soberinhouston:

but no, seriously, it happens. And this is where you least expect it. Right. Because again, you're so vulnerable. You're so raw. Everybody there is also supposed to be the way or at least understand that. You know what I mean? And the same thing happened to me. Like you go outside and try to smoke or you go stand up there. Here they come like pariahs, it's ridiculous. And so I was like, my main goal was like, I need to make sure there's a safe space for women. I don't give a fuck what type of woman you are. I just want it to be alcohol, not alcohol centered space. For women across the board. So that was like what I was thinking when I created it. That's where my mind was about safe space for women. So yeah, I created a meetup where we could all meet up and talk about our sobriety. I had no agenda, no idea really what we were going to do. But yeah, I made sure we went somewhere that had mocktails and I did a mocktail flight and I always ask them when we start A event. What brought you here? Why did you decide to come today? And that question alone will open up the floor because you learn so much about someone like maybe they're sober, curious, maybe they're this is day two of them trying to be sober or, you just never know. And that really built the community and it really opened up more ideas for different type of events to host, and it just it started. It got the ball rolling. That first event did.

Nadine Mulvina - TSB:

I love that. And so what was the evolution of Sober Girls Houston from that first inception of you just wanting a space for women to what it is today?

Danay @soberinhouston:

Yeah. I think when it first started out again, I just was so excited that even one person wanted to hang out and talk about being sober. And then once I really started it taught me a lot about women in recovery because I had never been to rehab. That was not my story, my experience. And working at these different recovery facilities, meeting women who were fighting to get their kids back. Meeting women who were leaving abusive relationships that kind of changed more of, just hosting events was cool, making a sober space at the club or like a pop up picnic or like a mocktail pop up or dance classes. That was great. But I also started to veer more into like outreach, going out to different women's homes and making sure they have free yoga or Attorneys to come out and talk about their options for what they were going through with their children and, things like that. So I feel like now I'm really opening sober girls up more, especially since this moved to Tulsa. More to have sober girls everywhere. We want sober girls, Tulsa. We want sober girls, New York. Because when you learn that you can create a safe space for women, you just want it everywhere. You know what I mean? So I'm just trying to expand, build on it, make sure it's all about outreach and more than just. Parties and mocktails, but also going to these facilities and going out and reaching the women who are still in the thick of this shit. You know what I mean? I love that,

Nadine Mulvina - TSB:

which goes back to access. I really appreciate like this initiative or this vision that you have, because. I think I mentioned addiction affects everyone, right? Like we're all afflicted, doesn't matter age, gender, race, whatever, or creed. You'll find alcoholism and other forms of addiction, but the access is lacking. There's a huge disparity there. And so women, black women, especially, I just feel like maybe we're less, I don't know. I don't want to say maybe. I feel like there's less accounts that I see. I'm speaking very surface level here. Just in terms of representation, going back to that there's less people who are forthcoming maybe about their story who are black. And I think that's connected to systemic racism, right? We don't want another thing. That's like another back, right? Or another letter to whatever. So, I just feel like that could be a big part of why less of us are talking about. How we have overcome or just like even when you're going through the process of becoming sober it's difficult to like necessarily be Open about that, which is why once again, you're talking about this so thank you for that work. And as you're expanding, it doesn't necessarily live in the city. It lives in you and like where you decide to bring those communities. so that it can even spread further and have a wider reach. so much. So that's amazing. Yeah.

Danay @soberinhouston:

It's thank you. It's also like you were saying, like the FOMO. Cause like when I would go to these like the recovery centers, a lot of the women are like, we're bored. We're so fucking bored, cause even once they get out of there, a lot of them make roommates, cause of the women that they met in there. So it's easier. They help them with housing, but even they've got this sober buddy, what they're like, we don't know what to do. They've never tried a sober life. You know what I mean? So I think it's really important for us, especially as black women to show other sober black women, you can still do all these things. You can still like you travel out of the country and have amazing time. You can still go different cities and find sober alternatives, and you can link up with other sober women in your community. But like you said, sober black women is super hard, and I think I found you. Literally searching underneath the hashtag sober black woman,

Nadine Mulvina - TSB:

I'm happy with just like sharing stories right now through my podcast, right? Like my blog and Instagram. But yes, to go back to what you were saying, we, if we can collaborate, if we can do something I would happily join forces or help to bring this initiative to New York, because there's a lot of us out here too.

Danay @soberinhouston:

Yeah. And I think, I've been talking to a few different girls that are in California and talking about doing like a sober Coachella, you know what I mean? We've been trying to plan this for a few months. Doesn't that sound fun?

Nadine Mulvina - TSB:

I would a hundred percent be game for that. Yes.

Danay @soberinhouston:

Okay. We're planning some influencer stuff to grow. I already have you written down. I was like, I already know who we're going to get. Okay. Because really it's like different cities. Like California is already pretty much living this like sober lifestyle. People talk about California sober, but also they're very much about their body and keeping, their bodies healthy. And they know alcohol is poison. So they don't, I mean, for them, it's like that simple. It's pretty simple, actually, if you think about

Nadine Mulvina - TSB:

it. I want to be healthy. Let me not put this poison in my body, injustice poison. Yeah.

Danay @soberinhouston:

Like that part, but you know, and It's just like finding other women who are saying that I feel like I followed all six of the sober black women I followed underneath that hashtag, but I can still tell you to this day that each one of them are still in my comments telling me to keep going and lifting me up and sending me messages like some of the most supportive people I've ever experienced in my life that I've never met. You know what I mean? And that part to me shows you how important community is and how powerful it is when you find the right people to help you grow to lift you as you climb, to, help you aspire to reach the goals that you want and that you deserve. Cause our addiction kept us down for so long, and we just have to be the example for the women who are still fighting.

Nadine Mulvina - TSB:

I love that. Yeah. The best way to be the example is to lead through your own. Daily choices. I'm still like, that's just what it comes down to because one who has tried even when I had no place or business trying to change someone else's course. When I've been doing the work for myself, because ironically, I did the work, other people kind of followed suit, but sometimes you want to see someone else do it, right?

Danay @soberinhouston:

Yes. Have you experienced that a lot? To me, it kind of blew my mind. Like I'll have friends come up to me and start telling me about their struggles, which I never knew they had. Or Start talking about someone in their family that, they're kind of worried about. Once you're able to be that vulnerable, people see that. That's why vulnerability is such a strength, because they're like, holy shit, if Denae can handle this, if Nadine, if they can do this, anything's possible.

Nadine Mulvina - TSB:

And honestly, this is where I had to learn to give people grace because I'm quick to cut people off. I'm a very black and white thinker. And when I was so sensitive in the early parts of my sobriety, and I do think I cut some people off who had no business being in my life. But there were people who I knew were there for me, but were not receptive or as receptive as I would have hoped them to be when I got sober. And I realized, to your point earlier, that it had less to do with me, it was more to do with their relationship with alcohol. Not that they didn't want me to succeed, but it was a threat, it was a threat to their relationship with alcohol oh, to use oh shit, Nadine's sober what does that mean for me? Cause I was right there with her, doing the same thing. So, long story short, those people now have not all of them, but a lot of them have either quit drinking or severely, significantly reduced their intake. Reduced. And then, right now, it's virtually zero. They're never drinking. Me, because I'm leading by example, it's I'm still having to show you that I'm here. Present having a good time because guess what I'm quick to leave if I'm not when I used to drink and party I wasn't having a good time. So I was drinking more just to make myself have a good time Like where's the logic there is no logic If I'm not enjoying it, you will know because I'm going to be like, good night. So,

Danay @soberinhouston:

bye. You know what, actually, there's an episode of Project Runway waiting for me at home. So I'm actually going to leave.

Nadine Mulvina - TSB:

Exactly. Like I have better things to do. I'm not going to try and make the best out of the situation when there, there's nothing good happening here. Yeah. Yeah. Like a lot of the people that I was either hanging around drinking that I still have in my life, right? Like true friends. Maybe it's maturity in terms of age, but I think a lot of people have really reduced their intake. Which is beautiful and I hope it's a cultural movement going back to what we see in California. I feel like the shift in society is happening. I don't know if it's just because I'm so like deep in the sober life and I'm like off the stick about the rest of the world. But I do think there is a change from me getting sober two and a half years ago to now. I think more people are like open to. When I say I'm super like people are like, what? You don't like no one's like really responding anymore. But yeah.

Danay @soberinhouston:

Yeah, no, I agree. It definitely is changing. Especially even I noticed moving to Tulsa. Like even having that conversation, like people are like, Oh, okay. And then they start telling me like, Oh, I tried this mocktail one time and it was really good. You know what I mean? And I feel like especially women, because there's, All the things that happen when you go out and get too intoxicated and seeing a mocktail as an option to keep you from getting in those situations has come into play a lot more than I think it used to. Like when we were out partying, I never even heard of a mocktail. I couldn't tell you what a mocktail was. If someone offered me one.

Nadine Mulvina - TSB:

But I feel like everybody knew what it was, but I literally thought it was like a pregnant woman's drink. I was like, Oh, like that's what pregnant women drink. But I didn't think that it was ever an option for me. I'm not interested in your mocktail. I'm not pregnant. What are you even offering me?

Danay @soberinhouston:

And also my friends when they go out now, like I can tell they're not drinking as much'cause I'm there. Do you notice that they're holding back like a little bit or a they're holding back.

Nadine Mulvina - TSB:

I'm not mad at it like, yeah, if I either, I'm gonna be the reason why you don't have a hangover tomorrow. You can thank me later. Okay.

Danay @soberinhouston:

You don't have to ask me. If it's okay, if you drink around me, but don't come over here, like pouring shots down your throat and chugging beers in my presence and expect me to be cool with that,

Nadine Mulvina - TSB:

oh, smell the tannins on this red girl, like that, that, that will get you when they see me mad. That will get me

Danay @soberinhouston:

mad. You hear me? Like the audacity. Do you still have friends that randomly be like, do you want to try? Oh, never mind. I forgot. Yeah, I do.

Nadine Mulvina - TSB:

I had here's a true story. I went to like a friend's graduation spring of last year and one of a mutual friend from college. It's always the friends from college, right? Always. He was like, I know you don't drink, but do you want some of this coke?

I

Nadine Mulvina - TSB:

was

like

Nadine Mulvina - TSB:

Make it make sense. I was like, oh, no thank you. I just had to laugh. In that moment, I just had to laugh because I'm like, he was dead ass serious, first of all. He was. I'm just like, yeah, like it, I was like, thank God for growth. Like I, I wasn't even mad. I was just like, this is funny to me. Like the, you were over here asking me if I want to do drugs with you and I don't drink. So

Danay @soberinhouston:

why would you think? And that's the part they don't think at all. They're not thinking. He

Nadine Mulvina - TSB:

was offering it to me. So let's just start with that. I don't think he was really, I think he was being inclusive. But yeah, I told you have friends who do the nevermind thing. Answer your question. But not so much, people that I don't really hang out with very often, college friends, and it'll be like a situation where it's Maybe it's legit'cause they don't see me. I know who I can actually go to the bar with, who's going to be respectful versus who I should just maybe say hey let's go to the movies. Let's go to a mutual place. And even back in one of my drinking days, no place was really neutral because at any point I could make it a drinking activity. So yeah, that's just me just being conscientious of who my friends are and knowing the circles. Do you get that? Do you find that people are over there asking, so Oh they forget in the moment. Right.

Danay @soberinhouston:

Like I have and I feel I have to like, At the same time, respect them because I did a lot of times say I'm being sober and not be sober. You know what I mean? And I feel like in those moments when I would be lying to other people like my parents or like certain friends, there were those friends that I didn't lie in front of. You know what I mean? Like they would hear me or see me lying, but they would also be Bring me that shot. Yeah. Yeah. You know what I mean? They were in on it. So it took a while for those friends to realize, no I'm really serious. Like for real. No. This is no joke. Like I'm for real this time. So I feel like those friends telling the truth today. Right. So those small group of friends. Took a long time or they just left, which I have to respect because who wants that up and down? Is she sober for real or is she not? You know what I mean? Like I completely understand, but I'm dead ass serious this time, and kind of like you said college friends or like cousins of friends that I haven't seen, since I got sober. But I do love that my friends, that protect me, like I never even knew they had so much base in their voice all of a sudden, if we go out and, a waiter comes like, what can I get y'all to drink? She doesn't drink,

Nadine Mulvina - TSB:

that's amazing. That's really cute. I love that.

Danay @soberinhouston:

Yeah. So it's a mix, but like you said, as your journey goes on, the ones that aren't there, I mean, they really, Don't even exist anymore. I mean,

Nadine Mulvina - TSB:

to be honest, I feel like it's mutual. Like they, they know what the deal is. It's like the trash takes itself, right? I shouldn't even call it trash. It's some people the deal the she's friends. Yeah. Like the people that be in my life are in my life. And the people who are not, and the seasons come and go, like relationships. I feel like e ebb and flow and, I'm not saying no to some people who are not in my life no, you can never come back again, but not under the same pretenses or context that you knew me as before. Cause I think some people do have a hard time accepting this version of you, like DNA. Yeah. Like it's just, some people can't handle it. Right.

Danay @soberinhouston:

Yeah, not meant for them. They are allowed to move the fuck around. But I do feel like that too. I do feel like that, like being able to see those friends, like to be able to be aware of that because I feel like, like you said I'll let them back in, because, nobody's cut off forever until you, actually prove that you need to be cut off forever. But I feel like sometimes in those situations, like as soon as I start hanging out with them again, I'm like, Oh, I know why I'm not here anymore. Like your whole body feels it. You feel forced in the conversation. Cause you can't feel like you can truly be yourself, so it kind of definitely weeds itself out because you're like, I don't even feel right trying to hang out with you. Like my spirit is completely different.

Nadine Mulvina - TSB:

The spirit thing is real sorry to cut you off the spirit like I'm learning a lot because I realized not everything is articulated with words, feelings, emotions, like the physical sensations that I feel around people intuitively I listen to a lot more and I feel like my sobriety. Has unlocked my intuition more to where I'm able to get in touch with wait, this is really in my body right now. I don't feel good. And it's, oh, yes, this person's around, or when I feel like I can't hear my successes or talk about my sobriety, because I don't know why, because you're a hater, basically, or you don't really want to see how it feels like, right? Like in those instances, I don't need that. I need to be like that.

Danay @soberinhouston:

That's truly one of the best gifts about sobriety, right? Is that intuition, because I felt the same way. And I remember even testing myself okay, let me just see I know what I feel, but let me just see what happens. And then every time it happens, I should have cut that person off. Like I shouldn't even, Gave them chance after chance. Like your spirit is telling you what you need to do. But yeah, those moments are crazy.

Nadine Mulvina - TSB:

You can't numb out. You can't distort the truth anymore. It is what it is, right?

Danay @soberinhouston:

It is okay. What you feel is true.

Nadine Mulvina - TSB:

I loved this conversation. I feel like I learned so much about you, about Sober Girls Houston, about just like the, even like we just talked about the sensations and FOMO and everything in between. It was such a fun conversation, but also like I've learned so much from you, Danae. I'm very excited. I'm going to open up the space just in case you want to plug anything or share anything. This is a good opportunity to do so.

Danay @soberinhouston:

Okay. Yeah. I just want to let everybody know to follow me on Instagram at sober girls, HTX, and you can also follow my personal journey at randomly rude as well on Instagram.

Nadine Mulvina - TSB:

I love it. I will plug all of that in the show notes below. Thank you so much, Janaye. Good luck in Tulsa, Oklahoma. I know it's just been a week written change, but I know you're gonna do amazing. Yes. And we'll have to do a

Danay @soberinhouston:

check in after six months or something. Yeah, so I

Nadine Mulvina - TSB:

want to hear about your sober community journey in Tulsa as well. I appreciate you coming. Yes. Thank you, Denae.

Danay @soberinhouston:

Thank you for having me. It's been a beautiful experience. Thank you.

Nadine Mulvina - TSB:

Thank you for being here, and thank you for allowing me to hold space in your day as you listen to this podcast. If you enjoyed today's episode, please, please do me a favor and one, make sure you're following the show so that you can stay up to date with everything else that's happening. And two. Please, please leave a review as it helps more people find the show. I would appreciate even more if it's a five star review, but do what's right for you. Do what you think I deserve, thank you so much, and I'll see you next week. Bye bye.