Solo or Squad? The Transformative Power of Sober Travel with Michelle Plante

In this episode of The Sober Butterfly, host Nadine Mulvina is joined by Michelle Plant from Michelle Plant Travels. Together, they explore the importance of women traveling together, especially during their sobriety journeys. Michelle shares her personal history of travel, contrasting experiences when she was drinking versus her current sober adventures. They discuss the unique challenges and rewards of sober solo and group travel, the value of authentic connections, and practical tips for planning successful trips. The episode also covers the significance of setting boundaries and the profound self-discovery that comes with sober travel. Whether a seasoned traveler or contemplating your first sober journey, this episode offers insights and encouragement for a life-changing experience.


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Transcript

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Nadine Mulvina - The Sober Butterfly 0:02

Hello. Hello. Hello. Welcome to the sober butterfly. I

0:05

am Nadine Mulvina. And

Nadine Mulvina - The Sober Butterfly 0:07

today we are joined with a very special guest. We have Michelle plant from Michelle plant travels and Michelle is reminding women why it's super important to travel with other women especially in your sobriety. So I'm super excited to get into a great conversation with Michelle today, because Her and I just have this common love around travel. So if you've been listening to the podcast or if you're following me on social media platforms, you know, I love to keep a trip booked. And Michelle is the same way. So Michelle, welcome to the show. Can you tell us a little bit about why you love to travel and more importantly, why you love sober travel?

Michelle Plante - Michelle Plant Travels 0:49

Oh my gosh. Yes. Thank you so much for having me. I'm so excited to be chatting. I love everything you're doing. You're amazing. And you're so beautiful, obviously. I mean, the short version is that I spent a few years living on a military base in Japan when I was a little girl. So, dad was in the army. We lived in Hiroshima and that was when I first started to get introduced to other cultures. And after that, we moved to Iowa. And I noticed this desire to explore and. my parents are incredible and they really wanted to make sure that I had travel experiences. So, there was a random student ambassador program that elementary students went to. So I traveled to Australia with other elementary school students when I was in fifth grade without my parents. I lived with a family in Germany. When I was in high school, I studied abroad in college. And ever since I, Just feel like I can learn so much from other cultures. Not only can I learn from them, but I learn more about me and I love learning about myself. And through sobriety, I have had profound travel experiences where they just hit different. They really do. So I'm so excited to be chatting and

2:06

listening

Michelle Plante - Michelle Plant Travels 2:07

more about your travel experiences, especially sober and solo too.

Nadine Mulvina - The Sober Butterfly 2:11

I would love to hear, because I think there is a key distinction around what life looked like, at least for myself, and maybe you can relate to this idea, what life looked like for me traveling When I was drinking versus traveling sober because I've always loved to travel, but life looked very different when I was taking trips drinking and I put myself in many compromising situations. I probably won't be able to get into all of that today here, but I would just want to know, like from you, what was that turning point? Like, because you do have over five and a half years of sobriety, which is incredible. You got sober January of 2019. That's Amazing. So I want to hear what life looked like and what were some defining moments that helped you get super clear around? Okay, I need to get sober. And then what did sober travel look like in relation to life before?

Michelle Plante - Michelle Plant Travels 3:03

Yeah. Yeah. So I'll, I'll just talk about my twenties was my first like big solo trip. I went to Europe, I went to four countries. That was kind of an impulsive trip, which I wouldn't recommend. But it was one of those things where it was like, I need to go on a vacation. So I, you know, booked a week and a half in Europe. Whatever. We've all been there. Right? and I was drinking and I drank a lot and, uh, it scares me to think about it now, honestly, because, who knows what could have happened. and I believe that, you know, we get to be safe and we, we are sovereign humans and, I don't want to say like, oh, bad things are going to happen just because you're drinking, you know, that's not true. But for me, when I drank, I was just someone who would say yes to anything. And I have said yes to a lot of things while drinking. And, um, know, after that trip, I did a trip in Central America. I went to Guatemala and Belize, and I was drinking then too. And, I just remember one of the, one of the days I had to sleep the whole next day and I ordered room service and I couldn't even eat it. I couldn't even drink water. And I just slept for an entire day, did not leave my hotel room. And I was like, I doing this? The night before I'd gone out, met a bunch of people, drank, whatever, you know, whatever you do, it's seems fun. I don't know that it's actually fun. but that was kind of when I was like, am I doing? Like, what, what is this? I missed out on an entire day. when I stopped drinking in January, 2019, It wasn't that I wasn't to travel. There just weren't as many opportunities for me. I wasn't making it a priority. And when I first quit drinking, I was very isolated and I know what to do. I knew zero people that didn't drink. And so I was just kind of like, I'm just going to stay in my house, I guess. But my first solo sober trip was

5:08

in 2021 to Isla Mujeres. And, Oh,

Nadine Mulvina - The Sober Butterfly 5:12

wow.

Michelle Plante - Michelle Plant Travels 5:12

Yeah. Have you been,

Nadine Mulvina - The Sober Butterfly 5:14

No, I have it, but it's on my list. Yeah. I love Mexico. I lived in Mexico and I have so much to parallel, but I'll let you finish.

Michelle Plante - Michelle Plant Travels 5:22

Okay. Yay. Yay. Excited. But, when I came on this trip, I, I kind of had the realization like, wow, this is my first solo sober trip. And it was a longer trip and I just, I mean, I journaled all day, every day. Pretty much. I went running. I met a beautiful woman that I'm friends with on Facebook and we, you know, we say, Hey, sometimes, I still noticed that I felt lonely and isolated and it was a beautiful, beautiful experience. One of my favorite trips, I went swimming with whale sharks, which is incredible very spiritual. I noticed that I was just sad. going to be honest. I was sad. I was still sad.

Nadine Mulvina - The Sober Butterfly 6:07

Yeah, that's so real. I can relate to many parts of your story. when you mentioned this idea of going out and taking like solo trips in your twenties. And, of course it was. An amazing experience. However, can you even remember all parts of it? I'm asking myself this question and you know, anyone at home that may be thinking about times in which they traveled and they may have done the all inclusives or they partied so hard and it's like you spend all of this money and it's like you're in the place, but you're not present and then you're losing days. Like you have that I don't know. Long lasting hangover, possibly anxiety the next day. And these are very real occurrences that happen time and time again. And like you and I think can connect as well on this idea of having our threshold completely lowered. I was a yes girl. I was very much the girl that was like, once I was drunk, I was open to pretty much experiment and do things I would never do in my sound mind. So like, that's the inherent danger, of course, that exists for people as well. And when you're outside of your comfort zone, when you were traveling solo And you're drinking. It's like you are really putting yourself in a position where anything could happen. When you travel, you should extra vigilant period. And when you're drinking, it just doesn't lend itself well to this idea of safety. And so like my safety was personally at risk many, many times. And I'm very thankful that worst things didn't happen, but I have been robbed. I have been. Blacked out on a beach in, Cabo. This is for my 30th birthday, a solo trip that I did. So like, these are very real things that happened for me. So thank you for highlighting those things because I think people at home may hear remnants of their past or past travel experiences. And what I want to talk to you about is solo travel. So like you got sober, you went on this amazing solo trip, but you would still feel isolated. And when I first got sober, I also felt Isolated but I think it was like listening to this mantra, which was isolation for preparation. Like I thought that I needed to kind of distance myself because most people are familiar, you're right, most people are familiar with people, places, things. Like these can be triggering for people who are newly sober. And so for me, I was just kind of like, yeah, I can't handle being in the same ecosystem that my drinking thrived in. So I decided to remove myself from certain things. And I actually went on a vacation with two girlfriends who were not sober, but like they didn't prioritize drinking, which was really nice because prior to that, every girls trip I ever took was very much like the bachelorette style. Like we're turning up, we're going to all inclusives, we're blacking out on a boat, like all of the things that you would think of that are problematic, at least in my mind when it comes to drinking. So I'd never gone basically on a trip with girls who were not prioritizing drinking and they really helped me. Lean into this idea of I can be fun. I can have a good time without drinking. So my question for you, Michelle, is what are your key distinctions between solo travel, and community based travel groups, like the ones that you're running and like, how does sobriety factor into all of this?

Michelle Plante - Michelle Plant Travels 9:19

Yeah. For sure. Oh, so beautiful. So beautiful. I think that first I, I know what it feels like to travel with girlfriends who don't make drinking, necessarily a priority, but they're still doing it. And it's like, okay, that's cool. You know, but it, it is a little different. I

9:40

went to, Tulum with a couple

Michelle Plante - Michelle Plant Travels 9:41

of girlfriends that I love. And, you know, we, we had a nice house and it was fun. And, just noticed still, you know, either towards the end of the night, sometimes in the afternoon, no judgment. It was just like, okay, we're having the same conversations over again. And they're like, I'm here. Cause I miss you guys. I haven't seen you in a year. Like I want to talk. I want to go deep. Like, I want to hear like what you're going through and how I can support you and how I can be a good friend and also, yeah, we can talk about silly things like whatever Taylor Swift, I don't know, but it's like, but once they hit like a different vibration or frequency, I'm just kind of like, okay, And, and there's moments where I'm like, should I have just gone by myself? You know, because it's like, it's that question. Would you rather go alone and actually be by yourself? Or would you rather go with other people? and then also noticing those feelings of isolation. So I've done a lot of work, to where I can feel fulfilled in many situations. I also grew up an only child. I don't know if you have siblings.

Nadine Mulvina - The Sober Butterfly 10:47

I'm an only child. That's crazy. I'm also an only child. Yeah. This is really like, this is crazy, Michelle. Yeah.

Michelle Plante - Michelle Plant Travels 10:55

Okay. When's your birthday?

Nadine Mulvina - The Sober Butterfly 10:57

my birthday's in March. I'm an Aries, sun sign, Gemini rising, which is crazy. And, uh, Libra moon.

Michelle Plante - Michelle Plant Travels 11:06

Okay. Okay.

Nadine Mulvina - The Sober Butterfly 11:07

When's your birthday?

Michelle Plante - Michelle Plant Travels 11:07

I'm October, 24th Scorpio. I don't, I have the other things, but I forget.

Nadine Mulvina - The Sober Butterfly 11:14

It's okay, it's okay. that's amazing. You're an only child, so yeah, so you know what it's like to feel isolated, or to feel alone. But sometimes it's like, I think as only children, You learn to lean into your own company, like, if that makes sense, you're kind of like, I think growing up young, like I was, I begged my parents, I wanted to have siblings so badly, but then you get to a certain age and you're just kind of like, Oh, this is what it is.

Michelle Plante - Michelle Plant Travels 11:40

Yeah. Yeah. And you're just, you just accept it, of course. And and then, you know, when you're 15, you're like, are you sure we're not going to adopt a brother? Um, they're like, no. So that, that has been so much of my experience too, is solo travel. It's also just really familiar. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Nadine Mulvina - The Sober Butterfly 12:01

Yeah.

Michelle Plante - Michelle Plant Travels 12:01

actually traveling in groups makes me uncomfortable because I'm not that used to it. And,

Nadine Mulvina - The Sober Butterfly 12:08

Yeah.

Michelle Plante - Michelle Plant Travels 12:09

is that's what I want. value deep connection with other people. And that's what I wanted when I was drinking. I wanted to connect with people and I was hoping that their barriers would go down. So I drank so I could have these like deep conversations with people, but the reality is it's, they're not real. They're not genuine. And. with women will change you. It will literally change you surrounding yourself in an immersive experience with inspiring women who are also alcohol free. It will change your life.

Nadine Mulvina - The Sober Butterfly 12:44

Wow. You know, I never made that. Parallel between being an only child and solo travel because people look at me like I'm crazy my girlfriend's included when I tell them I'm going on these trips by myself. Like, I went to South Africa in February by myself, and like, to me, it's no big deal, but I think it's what you mentioned. It's just, I'm used to being alone and I feel most comfortable. Not even, I'm just used to it. I feel most comfortable in my own company. And I also used alcohol as a social lubricant to, Uninhibit myself to be the more outgoing person. I think naturally I am. I have tendencies of being social. That's where I

13:23

get the sober butterfly

Nadine Mulvina - The Sober Butterfly 13:24

from but like when I removed the the crutch of alcohol I was questioning my outgoing personality. I'm like, did I curate this? Is this real? Because growing up, actually, if you want to go way back to childhood, like as an only child, I was very shy. I was very introverted. And it wasn't until really like high school, college, when I started to drink that I was able to like, quote, unlock another level of myself to where I could be the crazy outgoing. I'm going to walk up to anybody at a bar party. But like, that's not my natural default mode. So I really like that you made that distinction for me because I don't think I realized maybe how much like my solo travel is a comfort mechanism. So that's interesting to say. And like, I haven't taken a, um, sober. Group trip, like I've taken group trips group trips that I have curated with my girlfriends, my immediate circle, and I, I have a barometer now, like I'm not going to travel with anyone. I've had to learn that time and time. You cannot travel with anyone. So, now that I want this to be like a tips. Episode, but I'm curious, like, what ideas you have around, like, how to go about, traveling with girls, like, if you were doing a girl's trip, what should that look like? what are some, questions maybe we should reflect on or ask ourselves before we decide to, like, group travel?

Michelle Plante - Michelle Plant Travels 14:45

Yeah, totally. For sure. And I'm so happy you had that reflection and thank you for sharing that with me. It's really cool. I'd love to chat more about it too. I think it's so interesting because I feel, growing up there's a, there's a lot of this, like, I don't like hanging out with girls. I'm more of a guy's girl. Like I'm just, I'm low maintenance. I, I just like, don't like the drama I'm like, you're hanging out with the wrong girls because there are some true. Ladies around who will literally sit and look you in the eye and tell you that you're amazing and that you can do anything that you want. And I think that a part of my work along the way has been, I'll just be honest. I used to prioritize.

15:37

men

Michelle Plante - Michelle Plant Travels 15:38

over girlfriends. I did that for? a long time. um, yeah. Okay. And, uh, so anytime when I was with girlfriends, it meant less amount of time that I was chasing this unavailable man that would, you know, not respond anyway. and, uh,

Nadine Mulvina - The Sober Butterfly 16:01

Speaking to my heart.

Michelle Plante - Michelle Plant Travels 16:03

Okay. So, so I think that for some reason there's some resistance for women and I've experienced it too. Like being with a group of girlfriends, it's like, We're just not used to it. We're, we're not prioritizing it somewhere along the way, you know, of course, like there's, there's families and partners and, and all these friends, but like groups of women will change you. will

Nadine Mulvina - The Sober Butterfly 16:35

Mm

Michelle Plante - Michelle Plant Travels 16:35

change you. And I love that these groups of women who are alcohol free. And again, the trips aren't like, Oh, well we're alcohol free. So we're all friends. Like, no, we, we are all friends because we're making a decision to invest in ourselves. And that happens to

Nadine Mulvina - The Sober Butterfly 16:54

hmm.

Michelle Plante - Michelle Plant Travels 16:54

alcohol. And I also feel like travel is consistently pushing you out of your comfort zone. And when you do that, you grow so much faster. And then when you're doing that surrounded by women who are also doing that, like, it's just, it's an up level every trip.

Nadine Mulvina - The Sober Butterfly 17:15

I love that. Do you have any, like, stories? You mentioned before, you went to Tulum, it was a vibe with your girlfriends, but, like, they weren't sober, and I think people cross this threshold, even if they're not prioritized in drinking the whole time, but, like, you know how it goes. You get back to the house, the Airbnb. the wine starts pouring, the conversations start flowing, but the depth of conversation isn't necessarily in alignment to like you wanting that deep, profound connection. And it seems very surface level. And then like you mentioned before, like the stories get repeated and people start whatever. So I would like, love to hear like, what are some key things? Things or takeaways from past experiences that you've had with sober women that have been life altering that really gets you going. I want to impart with listeners at home, this idea of like why sober group travel is super valuable. I want to visualize like, what can I expect or what can I hope for? I should say, if I join a sober group travel initiative,

Michelle Plante - Michelle Plant Travels 18:15

Yeah, totally. And I feel like a lot of times A lot of women are like, well, I want to be able to do my own thing. I don't want to have to like follow along with the crowd. I don't want to go to this place for dinner. And the reality is you don't have to. Like you definitely don't. And that's what I've been loving about these trips lately is like it's such a perfect balance. Like we're all adults. not saying like, Oh, come, come with me here. It's just like, Hey, we're waking up. We're going to do a little breath work. We're going to do a little journaling. Let's have breakfast. Let's have some juice. You know, we're going to Costa Rica in January. Today we're going hiking. We're going to go see a beautiful waterfall. We'll meet for dinner here. If you don't want to come, if you just want to stay in your room. Cool. Like that's totally fine. I think that previously when I was traveling in groups, I felt like I had to do everything, what everyone was doing. And as of lately, and I also encourage people to do the same, like you get to decide. And if you don't want to go to dinner one night, like it's okay. It's totally okay. Like if you just need a minute for yourself or you want to call friends or you want to call your boyfriend, your husband or whatever, like, yeah. Stay in like it's all good. See you at breakfast, you know, and I think that I, I would just encourage women that speaking up and saying like, Hey, I'm not feeling well, I'm going to stay here and also knowing that you're in the space where everyone's like, Cool. You need anything? And you know, she's like, no, it's like, okay. we trust each other. We trust each other's decisions and we trust that it's, it's the best. We're not going to sit here and say, no, you have to come. You have to come to dinner. You're so lame. It's like, okay. Thanks for letting me know. See you tomorrow. love, you know?

Nadine Mulvina - The Sober Butterfly 20:07

Yeah, that's amazing because sometimes I think the best intentions still come across wrong. Like, I've been in group settings with girls who are not sober and they feel like if I'm setting a boundary, and say I don't want to go to this thing. They think it's because I feel triggered, or they're almost trying so hard to not exclude me. But it's like, no dude, like, I actually need some time, and like, I know what I need. At this stage in my sobriety, I know what I need. So it's not that I'm, like, feeling left out, or I need you to, like, push me to do this thing. It's more so like, no, I actually don't want to do this, and I'm okay and sound in that decision, and I need you to also be Sound in my decision to know what's best for me. So I absolutely love that and it just makes me feel Inspired to consider doing group trips. I think because I've had so many bad experiences when it comes to traveling with people who are drinking too much. I also sometimes just say to myself, well, I know I can control the elements more if I decide to just take a trip by myself. I don't want to necessarily have to go through the hoops or figuring out the logistics of how I can set boundaries with people when I can just go by myself. But like, I do think my sobriety needs connection. And so I, I just want to add that as a layer of nuance that, this idea of sober group travel is really, really important. impactful because you get both and it's helpful for me too because I mentioned behind the scenes which I can also share with people at home. So i'm in the process of planning a sober retreat in March of next year of 25. Thank you with Ellie over at dry in the desert and this is like really helpful for us to like think through what people are actually looking for, what they are craving, what is missing. And I think the key piece you just touched on is respect and boundaries, but also like authentic connections, like knowing when you can bring people in, but also protecting people's peace and like understanding that. We as sober women, we have this thing in alignment, but the common thread is not just our sobriety. Like we are so much more than that. It's just this idea that like, we really have this lifestyle alignment that sometimes you can't find easily. So I love everything that you're doing. And I hope that people at home lean into this idea that maybe sober group travel is something that they can look forward to.

22:34

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Nadine Mulvina - The Sober Butterfly 24:18

What would you say to anyone who is thinking about traveling? Maybe they haven't solo traveled before because I think that's a common thing. I think you and I are a little unique. Because I really don't know, like, I have a girlfriend right now. She's my best friend And she wants to go to Italy so badly. So I'm like, well, just go by yourself and she will not do it. she's like, I don't feel comfortable. Do you think There is value in solo travel, whether you're sober or not, like she's not sober, but like, do you see the value in solo travel or do you think it's overrated and we just need to like, focus on aligning our group travel with people who are similar minded or at least have similar lifestyles?

Michelle Plante - Michelle Plant Travels 25:03

Whew. Well, I, I'm at a point where I it's overrated. I do. I think it's really special, for women who are like, I will never do that. I'm like, okay, well just yourself out to dinner tomorrow. Do that.

Nadine Mulvina - The Sober Butterfly 25:23

Yeah.

Michelle Plante - Michelle Plant Travels 25:24

take yourself out to dinner and see what that feels like, because that alone can be very liberating. So like I went to Tulum solo in January this year. And I love Mexico too. Um, and I was like, Hey guys, does anyone want to come to Tulum? Everyone's like, Oh, I can't make it, you know, whatever. And I've just learned that travel is something I invest heavily in. I prioritize it. Not everyone is like that. I go back and forth, like I would rather travel solo than not travel at all,

Nadine Mulvina - The Sober Butterfly 26:01

Mm hmm. Yeah.

Michelle Plante - Michelle Plant Travels 26:04

and I think there's ways to connect way more now than, than there was like 10 years ago or whatever. And I always ask, you know, like, what are you trying to get out of the trip? What are you looking for?

Nadine Mulvina - The Sober Butterfly 26:15

Right.

Michelle Plante - Michelle Plant Travels 26:15

What do you want?

Nadine Mulvina - The Sober Butterfly 26:16

Right. Yeah, I totally agree with that. I think you have to have a clear vision for what you hope to get out of the trip. And then you have to be flexible. You have to be agile. No matter whether you travel in group or solo, you have to be able to pivot as needed and take what you need from the trip. So if you need space, if you're in a group setting, for example, or if you need connection, if you're solo travel traveling, for example, then find that, seek that out, because otherwise you could. Be in a position where you've ruined the trip for yourself, which I've ruined plenty of trips for myself, even sober because sober is not like the end all be all perfect solution to every problem in life. So when you plan your itineraries, do you plan for fun too? Because as much as I love the wellness stuff, I also still want to have a good time. Not that I want to be in the club, but I like social interactions and social events.

Michelle Plante - Michelle Plant Travels 27:10

totally. Totally. And I'll tell you one of my superpowers is dancing sober. Just saying like,

Nadine Mulvina - The Sober Butterfly 27:17

I love that. Me too. I'll be the first one on the dance floor.

Michelle Plante - Michelle Plant Travels 27:21

same with my water

Nadine Mulvina - The Sober Butterfly 27:23

Yeah.

Michelle Plante - Michelle Plant Travels 27:23

maybe a club soda. Um, once like once let's do it once. Let's have fun one night, you know, when we're not doing anything the next day and, and it's like, it's, you know, nothing crazy, obviously and we're not staying out super late. I, I love to go to bed early. very early. So it's just like, let's, let's like have fun. Let's be out and about. And yeah, like, are we in a place with alcohol? Yeah, we are, but there's other options. And if people aren't comfortable, you don't have to come, you know and we have these conversations. Before the trips, like, Hey, you know, we might be going to some places that serve alcohol. How do you feel about that? Is that okay? Typically the answer is yes. there's nothing more fun than just like being on the dance floor with your girlfriends and like, being silly, like having

Nadine Mulvina - The Sober Butterfly 28:08

Having from being silly, and I hate to say this, but I've said it before. It's a little bit entertaining to sometimes being settings where people are drinking, because you can almost like foreshadow what's going to happen next. You're just like, oh, here we go.

Michelle Plante - Michelle Plant Travels 28:24

percent.

Nadine Mulvina - The Sober Butterfly 28:25

going to call it over there. And it's just kind of like. Am I, am I better than everyone? I'm like, no, I'm sorry. But it kind of feels like that because I'm like, I don't need a drink to be silly and dance and have a good time. If I'm dancing and a guy's like, comes up and he's like, Oh, what are you drinking? I'll get you your next drink. And I'm like, Seltzer, And he's like, wait, you're not, but you're not, you're not drunk. You were just like this, like, yeah, I'm, I'm actually just insane. Um, so yeah, I, I absolutely love that. And then of course, if you do that night out with your group, the next day you can wake up early and obviously without any regrets or hangover, and it's just a really beautiful moment. my mornings are my favorite part. Part of my day. Um,

Michelle Plante - Michelle Plant Travels 29:06

Yeah.

Nadine Mulvina - The Sober Butterfly 29:07

love

29:07

yeah. so sacred to me and

Nadine Mulvina - The Sober Butterfly 29:09

I, I wasted so much time before. And so now I'm making up for lost time a little bit. And I'm an early girl to if I stay up late, it's because I'm working. But aside from that, I'm like, I want to be in bed by 10. with my sleepy girl, mocktail and magnesium.

Michelle Plante - Michelle Plant Travels 29:26

All the things castor oil. Well, I was listening, uh, your episode about, um, seeing usher and how you were falling asleep and I was like, I've never felt so seen. Yeah.

Nadine Mulvina - The Sober Butterfly 29:38

was with my, so it was a girl's trip too. And I was with my cousin. My cousin doesn't drink that much, and her friends are like, they drink a little bit, but like compared to my friend group. When I was drinking, they're very lightweight, but they were definitely drinking. They're also older than me. They're like five years older. So I was embarrassed. Like I'm the baby out the group and I'm just like, Knocked out in the middle of this man's concert. Oh, and we paid a pretty penny to be there. So I felt like, damn, like I should really be soaking up every moment of Usher and Usher. If you're listening to this, which maybe you are, I want you to know that you are a phenomenal. entertainer. It very much was not you. It was me. It was me. It was very much me and your concert should not start at 11 p. m. because sober girls need to be in bed sleeping at that time.

Michelle Plante - Michelle Plant Travels 30:27

Well, first I was actually in Vegas when I was listening to that episode. So I was like crying, laughing because it was so real. Um, and I'm actually headed there next month too, but okay. Maybe you and I should do this separately, but I love seeing live music. Like I love music. do concerts start at 9. can we get a, like a 9 a. m.

Nadine Mulvina - The Sober Butterfly 30:54

I know, I know they have those day raves, which are cool, but like a concert, yeah. Like everyone can win and benefit. Like let's have a day festival, daytime, like vibe for sure, because yeah, it's just too late. It's just way past my bedtime. What are your thoughts on Vegas hit or miss for

31:13

you as a sober girl. I

Michelle Plante - Michelle Plant Travels 31:16

love it. I, I'm, I'm a fan.

Nadine Mulvina - The Sober Butterfly 31:19

Me too.

Michelle Plante - Michelle Plant Travels 31:20

calm. I'm very comfortable, you know, five and a half years of sobriety. And I think it's so funny. It, it kind of like gives me that like crazy feeling that perhaps I used to really embody when I was drinking. And it's not like I'm going to the clubs or anything like that. And I only gambled once, but I won 5 just saying on the wheel of fortune

Nadine Mulvina - The Sober Butterfly 31:42

Ooh.

Michelle Plante - Michelle Plant Travels 31:43

Um, there's so much to do and thank you. And there's a lot of nature around too. this last time I went to the punk rock museum, which like I said, I love music and seven magic mountains. do you know what that is? It's like the

Nadine Mulvina - The Sober Butterfly 31:57

No, I've never heard of it.

Michelle Plante - Michelle Plant Travels 31:59

there.

Nadine Mulvina - The Sober Butterfly 32:00

Cool. No, I haven't heard of it.

Michelle Plante - Michelle Plant Travels 32:02

but these beautiful. Beautiful rocks. Yeah. So Vegas,

Nadine Mulvina - The Sober Butterfly 32:06

I love that.

Michelle Plante - Michelle Plant Travels 32:07

a yes for me. I love, I love hot. I love walking around. I love how just like cheesy and, and interesting it is. What about you?

Nadine Mulvina - The Sober Butterfly 32:18

Oh, it's a hell yes for me. I, I loved Vegas and I was a little scared to go because I've only been to Vegas twice and the first time I went was, I must've been like 24 and it was what you would imagine Alcoholic 24 year old to be doing all the things in Vegas like that was very much what I embodied on that trip So going back last year You know almost 10 years later Was amazing because I got to see Vegas with a fresh set of eyes and And it was amazing. the main event for me was the concert, but then we went to like a magic show. We did a day trip to the Grand Canyon, which was cool. we ziplined across, old Vegas, which I had done the first time I went, but I was so hungover. So it was beautiful to do it again, sober. So yeah, Vegas for me, like, Anytime anyone wants to go to Vegas, I'm like, yes, please sign me up. I will, I will be there in a heartbeat. Cause I love it. And I love being like adjacent to the chaos a little bit. Like I mentioned before, like I like to see what's going on and then be like, okay, good night.

Michelle Plante - Michelle Plant Travels 33:23

Yeah. Like I see it, but I'm not part of it where normally I would have been like part of it, you know? So

Nadine Mulvina - The Sober Butterfly 33:29

Exactly, exactly.

Michelle Plante - Michelle Plant Travels 33:31

and there's, there's great energy there. Like people are just happy I feel and they're just, you know, on vacation. So I, I just like it. I think it's a really fun spot.

Nadine Mulvina - The Sober Butterfly 33:41

Same. And so, us your top three destinations. Sober edition. So if anyone's thinking about taking a trip, what are your top three? Like, what are you thinking?

Michelle Plante - Michelle Plant Travels 33:55

Oh! my gosh. So many. domestic, I would say, mean, I love, I love anywhere with a national park. I love anywhere where there's hiking. I love Denver. I love Colorado. I think there, there's a lot to do there. I live in Kansas City. Um, there's so much to do here. I love KC too. Um, I go to Mexico a lot. Honestly, I've been there three times this year. might go once more, but love Mexico. I think it's more of just like, what are you wanting to get out of this trip? And where are you in your life right now? And that would help me decide. And, um, I want to do a fun little game. So I have This book want you to tell me like a number. Tell, like, pick a number 1 through 200 or something, and we'll tell you where you're going next.

Nadine Mulvina - The Sober Butterfly 34:50

Oh! This is perfect. Okay. Um, I'm going to pick my favorite number, which is 22, 22. I'm excited for this.

Michelle Plante - Michelle Plant Travels 35:02

I love that number, too. Okay.

Nadine Mulvina - The Sober Butterfly 35:06

Oh, you love 22 as well? That's okay.

Michelle Plante - Michelle Plant Travels 35:09

just love

Nadine Mulvina - The Sober Butterfly 35:09

I love it.

Michelle Plante - Michelle Plant Travels 35:12

Okay. You're going to Thailand!

Nadine Mulvina - The Sober Butterfly 35:17

I love Thailand. I've been to Thailand twice. It's one of my favorite countries. So if I were to offer a top destination, I would put Thailand. Top three for sure. It has everything. It has city. I love the city of Bangkok. It has beaches like the most incredible beaches Phuket. Um, it has mountain ranges. It's just amazing. I absolutely adore Thailand. Although the last time I went, I had, um, the worst bout of food poisoning. of my life.

Michelle Plante - Michelle Plant Travels 35:46

Oh, no.

Nadine Mulvina - The Sober Butterfly 35:46

Um, so it left a little bit of a bad taste in my mouth, which means I just need to go back. I just need to go back now. But it was so bad. I popped a blood vessel without being too graphic. My eyes were throwing up and also pooping. Yeah, it was terrible.

Michelle Plante - Michelle Plant Travels 36:01

goodness. You have an all time favorite trip you've been on, sober or not?

Nadine Mulvina - The Sober Butterfly 36:06

that's a great question. Okay. So last summer I did a trip. I went to Five different countries in asia, and I started a trip with a girlfriend who I'm no longer friends with if that tells you anything about that trip. Um, it just reminds me once again, like you can't travel with everyone. And then I ended the trip. So it was like we were together for the majority of the trip. But then when I got to Bali, I was solo. And this is why I keep going back and oscillating

36:37

between like versus group

Nadine Mulvina - The Sober Butterfly 36:40

travel. But I don't think it's a fair comparison because like the person I was with It just, the vibe was so off, it almost ruined my trip when I went to Bali alone. I was so at peace, but I think it was like residual effects of just like feeling toxic energy. So I would say that Bali trip was very special to me. It's breathtaking. I swam with dolphins, not just like in a pool, like in the ocean on the catamaran attached to like this anchor and like you literally have snorkel gear on and you see the dolphins jumping above and then below there are like hundreds of dolphins. I went on hikes, I went to beach clubs. So it was just everything that I like to do. And that was a solo trip. group wise though, I have had positive experiences. With girls specifically. And I was able to go when I first got sober on a really long trip. similar to you, I went to like a few countries in Europe and North Africa with two other girls. And that was a very special moment for me because they really helped me in my early sobriety. We went to a vineyard even in Portugal, which I wouldn't recommend people to do, but, um, we did it and they called ahead to make sure that like, the vineyard knew I was sober. So at the end of the tour, they had this whole spread for me. It was water and crackers and grapes, but I appreciated them making that effort. Whereas, you know, before that, yeah, before that, like girls I would have traveled with, they wouldn't have cared. So it was just like really made me feel special and seen. Think I'm kind of on the fence. Thank you. Thank you. So are you. And I love what you're doing. Like you are so special and you're tapping into a really special opportunity for people who are at a crossroads. Because I think some people like won't even travel because they don't have people to travel with, as we mentioned. And they don't want to do the solo travel, which is fair. It's not for everyone. We're only children. So we know what it's like. Well, then on top of that, like they may feel triggered if they travel with friends who are drinking. So I think that you have really hit that sweet spot where people who are sober curious or have sober time want to connect with other people, other women specifically, and the power of group is so important. Do you have any trips planned in the future? Are you thinking about launching any new trips. I would love to hear, because maybe I'll come I am very much looking to book a trip. You don't have to convince me.

Michelle Plante - Michelle Plant Travels 39:05

Yes. Okay. So excited. So two for sure. So next year, 2025 in January, we're headed to Costa Rica. So we're doing La Fortuna. Yes. And Las Catalinas.

Nadine Mulvina - The Sober Butterfly 39:16

love that.

Michelle Plante - Michelle Plant Travels 39:16

you been?

Nadine Mulvina - The Sober Butterfly 39:18

I went to Santa Teresa and it was amazing. It was like a Tulum minus the chaos. It's a very jungle, like. off the beaten path. Like you have to ride around on like dirt bikes and four wheelers. So that was amazing. That was a solo trip. And I met girls there who were not sober, but also they were cool. But like, I can see Costa Rica as being like the prime location because it's so beautiful and there's so much, eco tourism there. I feel like that would just be an amazing connection. But I've not been to La Fortuna, so I would be very open to that. That's amazing.

Michelle Plante - Michelle Plant Travels 39:50

Yeah.

Nadine Mulvina - The Sober Butterfly 39:51

January, that's, it's cold everywhere. That's amazing.

Michelle Plante - Michelle Plant Travels 39:55

And that's another, that's another thing too, for women who are sober curious they're not really sure what their relationship with alcohol is looking like. If they're able to commit to seven days in Costa Rica, like, Hey, just try it. Come meet with other women who are doing the same thing. Like you're still getting out and about when I did my first dry January, I mean, I, Barely left my house. And so I want to give women the opportunity to just leave and explore and feel inspired and have something to look forward to. It will be cold, depending on where you live. So that for sure, which I'm really excited about. That is all about adventure, zip lining, coffee and chocolate tours. a sunset catamaran, really nice accommodations. we're staying at two different properties, one with beautiful hot springs. And then the second one, everyone has their own infinity pool. So it's just nice. Like

Nadine Mulvina - The Sober Butterfly 40:45

What?

Michelle Plante - Michelle Plant Travels 40:45

just

Nadine Mulvina - The Sober Butterfly 40:46

That's amazing.

Michelle Plante - Michelle Plant Travels 40:47

India, we're going to in March, That will be North India, a completely like spiritual experience. Yeah.

Nadine Mulvina - The Sober Butterfly 40:55

That's big on my list. Oh my gosh.

Michelle Plante - Michelle Plant Travels 40:57

That destination is, is is so complex, so dazzling, so unique, that I think that there's more room for women to, be surrounded by more. Does that make sense?

Nadine Mulvina - The Sober Butterfly 41:11

I'm imagining going to like the different monuments and yoga. And I do think that lends itself nicely to a bigger group India sounds incredible. I love everything you're doing. I have one last question for you actually before we part. This has been an amazing conversation. Thank you so much. If you could leave anything with listeners at home today around sober travel, just period, like this overall theme of sober travel. What would you like to impart? Like what wisdom could you share? as someone who has experienced both sober travel and non sober travel, group travel and solo travel.

Michelle Plante - Michelle Plant Travels 41:42

Yeah. Beautiful. I would say. Just be ready. Be ready for some beautiful insights. Be open to new experiences. Be open to learning more things about yourself. Be open to witnessing new strengths that you never knew you had. Be open to change and just be curious be like, I'm ready to learn more about myself. When we learn more about ourselves, we can love ourselves that much more. And when we can do that, we can love others more. And that's, that's what I'm here to do.

Nadine Mulvina - The Sober Butterfly 42:12

I got chills. I love that so much. You and I have so much in common just outside of sobriety. See like in the first conversation we're having, we're realizing we're only children, how much we love to travel. The decentering of men is very real because I used to also prioritize men above friendships and girls.

Michelle Plante - Michelle Plant Travels 42:30

Yeah.

Nadine Mulvina - The Sober Butterfly 42:31

so it's just like so many things that we just find. Common threads with and like that is the beauty because I think when you do the work on yourself when you do the hard Work of like extracting the truth out of the fact that alcohol is not serving me Like that is the baseline and then you realize you have all of these other commonalities that exist And I think that's what you probably realize obviously I see you nodding your head

Michelle Plante - Michelle Plant Travels 42:53

Yes.

Nadine Mulvina - The Sober Butterfly 42:53

your sober Girls trips, because it's like, these women are already interested in optimizing their lives and doing better and being the best versions of themselves. So I think that alone is like a barometer of entry for people to go on the trip because it's like, yeah, I don't care about these superficial, surface level conversations and things like that. So thank you for the work that you're doing, Michelle. And if I didn't say this already, Michelle, Alice, Plant M A P what an amazing initial to have you are on the map and I love everything that you're doing. So thank you. Thank you so much.

Michelle Plante - Michelle Plant Travels 43:27

Thank you so much. This was amazing. Looking forward to more conversations and love everything that you're doing and just being so honest about your sobriety And your experiences. It's, it's so, so beautiful. It's so necessary. So thank you for continuing to do that.

Nadine Mulvina - The Sober Butterfly 43:42

And thank you for being here and sharing parts of your story and everything you're working on. If people have questions for you or want to connect with you, where can they find you?

Michelle Plante - Michelle Plant Travels 43:52

Yeah. Instagram at Michelle plant travels. Come find me.

Nadine Mulvina - The Sober Butterfly 43:56

I'll plug that in the show notes. Um, if you guys have questions, hit Michelle up and yeah, I have a feeling that there'll be a part two conversation on the horizon.

Michelle Plante - Michelle Plant Travels 44:06

Can't wait.

Nadine Mulvina - The Sober Butterfly 44:07

you for coming.

the-sober-butterfly_20_06-19-2024_163034 44:08

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