The Sober Butterfly Podcast

Practical Sobriety: Chris's Godless Path to Recovery

• Nadine Benjamin

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In this episode of the Sober Butterfly podcast, Nadine discusses with guest Chris about his book and his journey through addiction to sobriety. Chris candidly talks about how his excessive drinking led to professional struggles, a strained marriage, and neglecting his relationship with his young son. He shares that his transformation began with his decision to get sober, leading him to attend rehab and participate in AA meetings, though he struggled with the concept of a higher power. Chris detailed his post-rehab challenges, including his wife's request for a separation and dealing with loneliness and suicidal thoughts. He emphasizes mindfulness and breathing exercises as crucial tools in maintaining sobriety. Their discussion covers his methods of sustaining a healthy lifestyle, such as decluttering his space, redefining his values, and visualizing the person he wants to become. Chris concludes by highlighting the importance of resilience, support from loved ones, and making personal amends. He is currently working on his book 'Live Unshakable: Getting Your Shit Together,' aiming for a March release.

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the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

Hello. Hello. And welcome to the Sober Butterfly podcast. Today we have a very special guest. We are joined with Chris. Chris, welcome to the Sober Butterfly. How are you today?

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

Oh, I'm pretty good. No complaints. How are you?

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

you. I'm well, thank you for coming on. I'm really excited to talk about your book. I've had the opportunity to read segments of it and so far I'm loving what I'm reading. I appreciate the rawness and the honest reflection. And in the book, in the intro, you mentioned that when you finally decided to quote, get my shit together, my life was in ruins. I'm curious, Chris, can you actually take us back to that time? What did life look like for you?

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

Was drinking a lot every night. Like I'd finish at least a 2 6 of whiskey every single night. I still got up, I went to work, but yeah, things were just a mess. avoiding my life entirely. I didn't talk to my wife.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

was

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

my son.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

the

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

rough. I,

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

I just

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

was really struggling at work as well. I was late all the time.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

anything.

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

had no money. I had no ambition to do anything really. I just wanted to drink. That was life.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

Yeah,

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

It was, I just wanted to get away from everything so I could get drunk and not think about it.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

I do know what you mean. I can relate to that in many respects. When you mentioned being late to work and not performing not being your optimal self. That's very much something that I recognized I'm curious to learn from you Did the people closest to you recognize or pick up on your drinking?

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

Yes, for sure. in hindsight, they did. at the time I thought everybody fooled. I was just showing up and going through the motions of life, cooking meals for my family and, going to work every day, even though I was late half the time. Oh man, looking back on it now, it's that I'm a completely different person. I can't even fathom that guy anymore.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

Thank God for growth. Oh, not God. We'll get to that later, but thank goodness growth. so I'm You mentioned that you were, you know, a husband and father at this time, and I'm wondering just to get a little bit more. picture in terms of what that relationship was like, because being a father, being a husband, working full time, like these are big responsibilities. And so if you can just kind of go a little in depth for us and tell us like how those relationships or those dynamics played out in alignment to your drinking.

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

Well, my wife and I first got together, it was 10 years ago. We did everything together. we talked. We could talk for hours and just be happy. And somewhere along the way, I started prioritizing drinking over that. And she withdrew from me for sure. Our relationship changed and I didn't realize it. I was too hungover to not involved to realize it. But looking back now, I can see she'd been unhappy for a couple of years, at least before I got help. And, with my son is like, he's still quite young.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

He

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

two and three when this was going on. he's four right now.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

right now.

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

And,

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

I

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

I would

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

just,

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

When I was looking after him, I was more interested in scrolling through TikTok on my phone than, whatever he was into.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

into.

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

And I,

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

Oh

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

regret that so much.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

so much.

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

I miss so much just not being there, not being present.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

I wonder, Chris, do you consider yourself to be an alcoholic? And I just want to frame that question connection to the progressive nature of alcoholism. I'm wondering for you, like, what shifted? So if you've been with your wife for 10 years and then you became a father, I'm assuming this was a gradual progression. So I'm just curious to learn from you. Do you self identify as being an alcoholic? And then how did your drinking escalate or exasperate from this time?

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

I've always been a drinker, or I had always been a drinker. I grew up on the, I'm Canadian. I dunno if you knew that, but I'm, uh, I grew up in

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

I detected an accent. Yeah.

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

I grew up in Newfoundland, uh, on East Coast, and it's drinking's like a big part of the culture, so I've always drank. Honestly, it was when I started drinking whiskey that things started going off the rails. Like I'd go out and have beers with my friends and all, you know, normal stuff. And then. Whiskey became my drink of choice, and hiding in the basement, and not hanging out with anybody, became how I drank

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

It went from like social drinking to kind of self isolation, drinking in secrecy.

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

yeah, for sure. I'd actually, I'd tell my friends that, uh, I didn't want to go out, because I was trying to quit drinking. And what I would do that night, is I'd drink. I'd drink an entire bottle, but I just wanted to do it alone, where they couldn't see me. And when, yeah, that's how I drank. Shift in mindset was beginning at the end, I would say.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

The secrecy, the shame, that can keep people sick for a very long time. I also can relate to that. Towards the end of my drinking career, I was drinking alone. And the irony of that is addiction runs in my family. And I always told myself, like, I would never be that person. And the way in which it presented itself for me growing up was people drinking alone, and I thought it was so pathetic. I thought it was so above that, Chris. And then, of course, you know, towards the end, I started drinking more and more by myself. And similar to you,

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

The hiding away.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

yeah, denying plans with friends because I'm like, eh, I would rather just sit at home. My drink of choice towards the end was actually a lot of wine because I, Decided that I couldn't handle the liquor and I didn't trust myself with the liquor. So this was a way in which I was diluting myself into thinking that I could manage my drinking when in turn I just obviously needed to stop altogether. But, enough about me. thank you for sharing all of that. And so to go back. I know from reading. Parts of your book that rehab was actually a really pivotal part of your story and you wrote, I didn't have a plan beyond getting sober and finding some kind of stability. So I'm wondering what role rehab played in helping you find that stability.

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

Rehab wasn't my idea. So, the company I worked for, As an employee assistance program. And when I decided to actually get help, I went to my boss. And then that was HR. And I did an interview with Dr. Baker. And he suggested I go do a four week program.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

Didn't think I was going to go do this interview. Came through and suggested, yeah, you shouldn't go do a 20 day program. I was

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

All good.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

pretty

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

all good now.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

that

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

didn't think I was going to go to rehab to be honest. I did this interview and I lied to him straight up. I was like, I'm doing good. You know, things I haven't drank in a few days, which is a hundred percent lie. And he knew and he came through and suggested, yeah, you should go do a 20 day program. And I was pretty disappointed in that actually, cause I wanted to keep drinking. So when I went to,

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

I

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

excuse me.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

excuse

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

When I actually went to rehab, I was, I

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

I

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

don't know what my expectation was, but I thought they were going to teach me how to drink.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

I,

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

Not, not quit drinking,

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

teach me

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

yeah.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

it like a normal

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

Yeah, teach me how to do it like a normal person.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

addict's mind is

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

But yeah, the addict's mind is not good for that.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

So, you get to rehab, and I feel like this is actually a good opportunity to talk about first encounters with spiritual programs or rehabilitation programs that are aligned to spirituality, such as AA. AA, for folks who may not be familiar, there's a lot of literature, there's a lot of practices around. finding your higher power, finding something outside of yourself to anchor your sobriety. So, I'm curious from you, and I've also been privy from reading parts of your book that was daunting for you and that you said you kind of scoffed at the idea of, you know,

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

do,

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

So, what was that experience like in rehab when you go to your first AA meeting and everyone's talking about, you know,

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

Yeah, the steps I'll have, yeah.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

power. That's like one of the main tenets.

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

It is for sure. I felt a bit isolated for sure, but AA is a fantastic program. Like I still follow AA.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

still

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

that's where I found the community of

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

the higher

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

people who know where I've been.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

change me. sense?

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

but yeah, the higher power just, I've never really, I don't, I don't buy it. I don't think there's something outside of me that's trying to change me. It had to come from within. Does that make sense?

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

It makes sense. I want to hear more, but what I struggled with in the beginning,'cause I've also attended meetings. I struggled with the powerlessness of it and the or the serenity to something outside of yourself. That was a struggle point for me. And I do believe I am a person that does believe in. outside of myself, but even for me as someone who would, you know, consider themselves to be spiritual, or connected to some kind of higher power that was hard for me to be like, so I'm just supposed to surrender to something outside of myself when I'm the one that has to do this

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

Yeah,

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

can connect there.

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

I had to reframe the higher power into a purpose, a higher purpose.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

throughout

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

I think I mentioned that several times throughout the book,

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

book, but

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

to me, the higher powers became myself, the

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

the

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

could become.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

become

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

alcohol. Alcohol had not always ruled my life like it did now. So the higher purpose, yeah. So that became the vision of me without alcohol. And the father I could be for my son, Andy, is just, he's the inspiration behind everything.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

everything.

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

Like, he's the reason I wanted to change. Now, that being said, I had to want to change for myself. that really comes with, the higher purpose. Had to change for me.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

me.

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

So that higher purpose, the person I could be without alcohol,

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

became

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

Became my vision for me.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

me.

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

Changing myself to become the man I could be without alcohol was inspired by my son.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

man I could be without was inspired by my son. Okay.

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

Absolutely. Yeah.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

You're

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

You can't make changes

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

changes

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

else.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

Absolutely. And then like obviously the people around you closest to you will see said changes and benefit from said changes. But I feel like this shouldn't be controversial, but I've actually had. with people around this, like, I'm not a parent. So I feel like that always defaults to like, well, you don't understand. You're not a mom.

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

if it's an external motivator, but ultimately, like, I think sustaining sobriety really has to be because you want it, you want it for yourself and then, like I mentioned, other people will be impacted in the greatest possible way.

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

have to want to change yourself. Maybe that could be for somebody else, but you have to want to change yourself for somebody else.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

Yeah.

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

It's kind of a rabbit hole. No.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

already shared that traditional recovery paths, such as AA, and you're not faulting AA in terms of the, the many benefits and joys of finding community and connection and things like that. but in terms of like the higher power, the spirituality aspects of it, the traditional pathway really didn't resonate with you. how did that realization shape your approach to sobriety?

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

So, Language has always been very important to me. I've always been a writer, I started thinking of the words behind change. Like the integrity and integrity. balance and I don't think those words are always in my head for how I want to make my changes and eventually evolved into the book, obviously, but, I ignored the spirituality portion and focused more on the,

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

the,

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

they say,

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

say,

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

take what you want, leave the rest.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

rest.

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

So I took

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

took

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

what I wanted. I took, these words that were just bouncing around in my head and I'd say them over and over to myself.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

to myself. Mindfulness was

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

was a, a big one. That's been probably the biggest changer, or changer, is that a good word? The, uh, the biggest.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

good word.

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

Yeah, man, I'm not a good speaker. I'm good on paper.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

I've been on paper, but. Yeah, okay. Yeah, it's just people, these

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

Okay.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

kept

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

yeah, it was just these words that kept bouncing around in my head and that's what I would focus on, instead of,

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

Something

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

myself, the higher power, who had guided me to rehab or whatever.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

higher

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

don't buy that,

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

who

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

me to rehab. I knew I couldn't do it on my own,

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

so

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

but I got there.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

kind of need to rehab. I knew I couldn't do it.

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

Yeah.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

A parent, or you're not 100 percent buying into this idea that I need a change,

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

Mm hmm.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

in my life, instead of leaning into ideas and then reshaping them, as you mentioned, take what you need, leave the rest and deciding that you're going to actually listen to people share and listen to other gems of wisdom from these meetings. You didn't use it as a way to look for divides or look for ways to detract from what you can take away from the essence of AA or the essence of a meeting. I feel like so often, like if people aren't ready to change, there's just look for ways to like, stay the same, if that makes sense.

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

Absolutely.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

it's really great that you were able to refine it. or make addendums to the meetings and parts of your recovery that were applicable and felt authentic to you. So, I love that

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

AA to me is a wonderful program. I still go to meetings. I started a meeting where I work. Because I work out of town.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

So,

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

they're very important. The shares I hear in there, the compassion in those rooms is incredible. And I would never detract to AA because of the higher power stuff. I just adjust what I need to adjust to make it work for me.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

Yeah. I remember once a sponsor said, your higher power can be a tree.

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

Yeah.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

doesn't matter. Like, literally it doesn't matter. and I think for me, as a black woman, so often the literature we know is, like, it's like, Bill, this is early 20th century, you know, literature that's from a very, like, white male And

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

Yeah.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

distracting, but I've learned to, overlook the things that I obviously realize don't pertain to me. in 2024.

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

Exactly.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

I would love to talk about post rehab

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

Sure.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

I found really interesting that you said or mentioned That when you got out of rehab, it wasn't a seamless transition.

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

no.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

wasn't like, Oh, all of my problems are fixed and now I'm sober and life is great. And all of my interpersonal relationships are, you know, up.

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

Absolutely not.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

really struggled. So I would love to touch on that a little bit more because I didn't go to rehab to get sober. But I also really struggled in early sobriety. So

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

hmm.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

just curious to hear What that part of your life look like.

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

If you want to talk about rock bottom, that came a month after I got sober, or more than, a little more than a month after I got sober.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

I've never heard anyone say that before. Can you tell us more?

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

Absolutely, so I got out of rehab. My wife had told me she wanted a separation while I was in rehab, about

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

like that's not recommended.

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

No, probably not. But, uh, She was afraid of me coming home. Like,

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

sorry. I feel like that's actually the best time because

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

Yeah.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

and you can't drink over it.

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

Yeah, exactly. Yeah, no, I understand. Uh, she was afraid of me coming home. Like, I wasn't angry, violent, nothing like that. But, just the stress and the tension I brought into the house for her. She didn't want me to come back. She said she wanted a separation and I had moved out. I was, in the apartment that I was at, talking about, I'm in the apartment right now, but there were boxes everywhere, everything was a mess, I was just spinning mentally, I couldn't sleep, I couldn't eat,

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

eat.

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

And, yeah, first time in my life I actually genuinely considered killing myself. And that was, yeah, I was sober for over a month at that point.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

point.

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

I even loaded a pistol and held it in my head,

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

head.

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

I don't recommend doing that, but

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

but

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

it really opened my eyes to that, no, I don't want to, I don't want to end it, I just need to figure something out.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

I'm sorry to hear that, it sounds like despair you were feeling. I want to kind of sit with that. Was it because obviously you have all of these big life changes, right? Like your wife has asked for a separation. You've had to move out. You've moved out of rehab, moved into your own place. As you mentioned, boxes are everywhere. Your whole life was basically disrupted. And I'm going to add this caveat here. And was it the idea that you couldn't turn to alcohol I'm assuming alcohol was a source of solace for you

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

Absolutely,

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

in your

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

yeah, there was, that's what I would normally have done, was go get drunk and not think about it.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

Why didn't you?

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

I didn't want to. I didn't know how to go forward, but I didn't want to go backwards. Yeah, there's a liquor store. I could walk to it in less than two minutes if I wanted to get a drink right now, but I did, I just didn't want to go back that way.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

that's progress. That's growth right there.

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

but I didn't want to go forward either.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

forward, I guess would be

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

I didn't know how to go forward, I guess would be a better way to say that, but, yeah.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

What changed for you? So unfortunately you were feeling super low. Your rock bottom, contemplating taking your life, but choosing thankfully not to. What kept you going? What kept you sober? What kept you living?

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

Well, that night it was square breathing. Just breathe in for four, hold for four, exhale for four, hold for four, repeat.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

four.

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

That, that

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

that

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

took me back from the edge.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

I don't

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

I got,

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

I

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

calm down. And just, breathing is

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

He was

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

such a powerful weapon in Life, really, and facing struggles, which was, yeah, that was the worst struggle I've ever faced, for sure. now afterwards, after I got through that night, what kept me from not drinking? My son, I guess.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

guess.

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

I guess, it was, yeah,

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

yeah.

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

I'd keep the image of who I wanted to be for him

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

him

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

in my head.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

head.

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

That helped me move forward.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

So,

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

picturing, Gus. I picture our future together. he loves to draw,

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

draw.

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

he brings me up with little drawings, and they're fantastic. He's actually quite talented for a four year old. But, uh,

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

for a

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

or at least I think he is. Maybe it's just a parent thing, but,

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

I Maybe it's just

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

yeah, I just kept picturing how I wanted to be for him,

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

I wanted

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

and then

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

coming

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

coming up with how I was going to get there.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

kept going forward.

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

Yeah.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

up.

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

And that's how I kept going forward.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

just organized and prepared.

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

Cleaning up. Getting my apartment. Getting my space. Just organized.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

buy

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

Man.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

that I

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

Not only drinking, like, I'd buy stupid shit that I didn't need

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

just

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

chase that dopamine high, right?

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

high, right?

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

As they say,

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

they

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

you know, to overeat. I was over I was 300 pounds when I went to rehab. Okay.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

I went to

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

I do that kind of stuff

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

kind of stuff.

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

yeah, I'm still doing that after rehab,

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

I feel

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

so I

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

I've

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

purged my life. I spent a week, I went through everything that I

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

just got rid

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

had and I just got rid of most of it. I kept things I needed,

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

needed.

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

things that were important to me, like sentimental value or whatever. I kept some of that stuff, but

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

but

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

I got rid of everything. I cleaned up my space. And that,

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

Kondo'd it. I read that.

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

yeah,

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

Marie Kondo purge. And let me tell you, best decision ever, like to really sift through your personal belongings and you can feel it. It's like a visual, at least for me. I felt

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

Yeah. Absolutely.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

does this spark joy? you find something, you touch it, appraise it, evaluate it in that moment. If it doesn't spark joy,

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

Get rid of it.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

and then I saw to your point, like, does it have a place in my life? Like, do I physically know where I can put this

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

Yeah.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

belonging?

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

Even if it didn't bring me joy. And I, like my headphones, I still need headphones, but I wasn't going to throw them away, but they don't even bring me joy by any means. You know what I mean?

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

They're functional,

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

Yeah. They're functional.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

And you have a place for them, I'm assuming now.

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

Yeah, I have my ear right now, so. Yeah, once I'd done,

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

your life

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

big time,

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

yeah.

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

once I had that done, that's where the concept of clarity came in. Clarity was the first part, I think I say it in the part you read where I was just doing square breathing, lying on my bed,

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

bed.

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

and it was like,

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

was like

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

Someone said it aloud in the room. It was my own voice, I guess, but I was half asleep

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

Chris, it was your higher

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

No, it wasn't. Yeah, it was my, it was,

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

was,

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

yeah, it was wild. Just, I've never had such a visceral reaction to that, like, a word before. Like, my blood pressure spiked, I think. I was like, yeah, that's where I gotta start. So, clarity became what I was searching for.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

like,

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

Sifting through all the crap and,

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

and

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

of my life to find out what I wanted to keep. Not just physical stuff, I mean like,

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

like

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

the way I was eating, the way I was not exercising.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

I needed

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

just

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

live

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

I was living.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

see

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

with clarity to find it, see where I wanted to go, cause it wasn't working for me, obviously. Right?

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

wasn't

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

Yeah. Hmm.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

Sobriety, obviously removing the toxic substances can lead to that, but to your point, I think it needs to also be reflected in how you live your life and if my apartment, if my space is dirty, cluttered, It's a reflection of how my inner feelings are mentally like I feel like I'm cluttered. I feel like I'm all over the place and crazy and just another quick connection between you and I, I read in the book, you mentioned that you had undiagnosed ADHD. I also did. And I think I was using that as an excuse to explain or justify the chaos that pervaded in my life, but truly, you know, I think it was more so a reflection of who I am. where I was in my life. And so cleaning up, I think also really does have an impact on, how you go about your day, your routines, your lifestyle as a whole. It's not just about quitting alcohol. And I think that's the biggest lesson I've taken away so far from hearing parts of your story. Like, that's why I wanted to hone in, in the post rehab situation, because yeah, you weren't drinking alcohol. But you also weren't happy.

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

That was dumb.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

want to remind folks at home, like, getting sober. Yes, it can fix a lot of things. It can change your life for the better. But I think there's a lot more work to get done basically is the point

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

Absolutely.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

now I feel like that's a good segue to talk a little bit about the six action drivers that you mentioned in your

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

Yeah.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

actually before we get to the six action drivers, I want to talk about the pillars of change that you mentioned, because

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

Yeah.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

on clarity. So you have clarity,

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

Diligence, equanimity, and stalwartness. Yeah.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

these important to you or transformative for you? Is that always

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

obviously it all started with Clarity.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

next?

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

That was the, driving force behind my change, getting back to being a happy person. Because I'd always been a happy person. I was a happy drunk, like, I wasn't depressed or anything, I just, yeah. after Clarity I just kept looking for the next thing.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

thing,

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

The next concept that was going to move me forward.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

me

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

I hadn't come up with the pillars of change and all this stuff at the time.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

was just

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

I wanted the next word that was going to help me

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

me

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

keep things together,

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

You know,

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

I work in construction or have for a long time

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

time.

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

and you hear due diligence in there a lot,

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

a lot.

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

and that's just

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

just

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

showing up and doing with being prepared for everything. And that kind of resonated with me. Diligence became the second.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

How am

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

How am I going to be diligent in my life of clarity? You know, getting sober, and

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

sober,

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

how am I going to maintain,

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

Even

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

Yeah,

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

don't

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

yeah,

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

Yeah.

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

no one's looking.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

Right.

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

live alone now.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

I

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

slip back into habits and nobody would know. Well, they would, but not immediately. Yeah, so, actually writing the book is how the pillars and all that came about. So, equanimity was another one.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

one.

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

I had heard the term in rehab.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

basically like balance.

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

it's, how do I describe it? It's

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

It's responding.

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

instead of reacting.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

Oh,

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

Right? So it's

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

things

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

taking things in and thinking about it before you react to it.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

to it.

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

So you respond to situations instead of just the knee jerk

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

jerk

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

reaction.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

Yeah.

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

responding to that instead of reacting. And, stalwartness is just, that's where I want to be.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

to

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

just be that steady presence for people I love in my life.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

life.

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

My son, obviously, but everybody else around me, the people.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

Yeah.

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

I want to turn it on its head and not be the,

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

the,

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

not be the degenerate that's,

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

that's,

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

you know,

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

the,

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

I'm drunk all the time and people are stressed out. They don't want to see, be around me or whatever. I want to flip that. I want to be the guy they go to.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

Mm.

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

and stalwartness to me is, that's what that is, right?

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

right? I love all of those, tenets and, or refer to them, all of the pillars of change. I think that's a great way to. Talk about exploring practical sobriety tools that you mentioned. So the six action drivers in your book are integrity, balance, resilience, compassion, purpose, and mindfulness.

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

Yeah.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

I find these

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

Hardest

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

Which of these did you actually find the hardest to implement and why?

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

Mindfulness is the, probably the hardest one to implement. To make it a part of your life. It's bringing your attention back to the present moment. That's all that means. And, That's really hard to do. Like,

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

Yeah.

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

not look forward, not see where, where things are going. Try not to focus on the future, on mistakes of the past. That's a difficult thing to do.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

Yeah.

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

I mean, mindfulness people think of meditation, but it's more than that. It's like standing in the shower and just feeling the water coming over, falling over your skin.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

That's

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

moment.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

mindful

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

it's hard, it's, it's nice to do that. It's just Focus on what's happening right now.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

just, focus on what's happening right now. I wouldn't consider myself to be an anxious person, although my therapist may

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

Yeah. Ha ha ha.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

I was immediately like, Oh, yes, I love the shower because my best thinking happens in the shower because I'm just, I'm planning out my day, my month, my year,

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

Yeah.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

in the shower. And I've never, I don't think I've ever, at least in recent times, really just thought Use that moment. I love to shower just like really think about. Oh, how does this water feel,

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

Oh, it feels fantastic.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

It does

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

yeah. Ha

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

my whole life story So yeah, thank you for I actually

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

Yeah.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

to your point mindfulness is more than meditation I'm someone who chronically struggles with meditating. I still try. I do a lot of mindfulness journaling practices because I find that's easier for me than, you know, sitting quietly for x amount of time trying to quiet or quell my thoughts. Like, it's really, really difficult for me, as a person that has ADHD, especially,

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

Yeah.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

like that you mentioned that specific example because there are many moments, in our life where we can just be

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

Yeah, absolutely. Any moment. You just need to come back and take a breath. Think about what's going on right now around you. Not mistakes, not planning for the future. Just coming back to yourself. It's hard to do. It's hard to get that practice. I know everybody says it's like a muscle. The more you do it, the easier it becomes.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

did the breathing exercises help you get to that place?

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

They did. Square breathing. If I'm really anxious or I'm really struggling, I'll sit in my bedroom, in the dark, with a ticking clock. And I'll just breathe in for four, hold for four, out for four. And that, if I do that for ten minutes, the day becomes a lot better. Ha ha ha ha ha ha.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

like that's my problem. I'm like 10 minutes of just deep breathing and

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

Yeah.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

to breathe and I do yoga. Sometimes I'm a big Pilates girl. I'm like, they'll try and integrate like a little breathing exercises and I have to root myself. I'm like, I want to walk out of class, but I'm going to do this

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

Yeah.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

it feels good to breathe. and center yourself in your body. But yeah, that's really hard for me.

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

That was hard for me in the beginning, too. Like, even doing it for five minutes was hard, but just,

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

way

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

Exactly.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

that place.

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

I find that the square breathing, especially with the ticking clock, makes it a lot easier because you just count one, two, three, four. You just focus on your, on the count basically. And I'll set a timer on my phone and you'd be surprised how quickly that ten minutes goes by once you actually start to get there. You know what I mean?

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

No,

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

No, but okay.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

out I, may have to find out. I'm just a go, go, go person, but I know it's not always

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

Oh, I am too.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

or sustainable, but yeah, I will try it and I will email you. I'll let, you know,

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

Yeah, please do.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

be for 5 minutes. I'm not going to pretend

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

ha ha ha ha ha.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

And I'll be like, okay, like, how does that feel? so yeah, thank you for sharing that, and I encourage anyone listening at home to also maybe try the four, it's called the four square method,

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

square breathing.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

breathing, okay, square breathing, inhale for four, hold for four, exhale for four, repeat,

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

And hold for four on the exhale too.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

oh, and hold for

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

It's sixteen seconds in total.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

Okay,

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

Yeah. Four squares. Yeah. Mm hmm. Mm

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

I love that. So you emphasize building recovery on values anyone can adopt, not just those tied to belief systems.

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

hmm.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

you see these tools working for someone who might still be struggling to commit to sobriety?

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

It's a good question. Resilience is probably, I don't know. It drove a lot of how I was dealing with my ex wife, I guess. We're still married, but We're living separated, yeah. Still separated, yeah. So, resilience, yeah. So I did realize that I had no control over how she feels. Like, that was, it's her thing. I can't influence that, but

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

but

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

I can be resilient

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

and

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

Be

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

be

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

she needs me to be to, for Andy,

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

Yeah.

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

I can,

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

can,

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

can do all the things I used to say I would do, but never actually did. Uh, yeah, it became a big part of how I would, how I rebuilt my relationship with her. We have a great relationship now. We're still separated, but yeah, everything's about Andy.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

I'm nosy, and you do not have to answer this question, but is there any chance of reconciliation between

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

I think so. Yeah, we're still working on it, for sure. But, she's got a lot of shit to forgive. And I do too, because, I mean, getting kicked out three or four days before I get out of rehab was kind of a, yeah, kind of a real kick in the, guts there.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

But do you think she noticed a real change in you?

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

I would say so, yeah. She's told me. She likes the new me, so. Yeah. Uh, anyway, sorry.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

can work it out if it's meant to be. I know that was off

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

No, that's all good. It's all good.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

that to work out if it's meant to be as mentioned, especially because you guys have a beautiful son together. But I digress.

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

It's all good.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

Yeah, emotional abuse isn't always allowed. What a transition, right? So, um, I mean, I think this reflection is striking. How did you come to terms with the impact of your actions your relationships?

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

Oh, that took,

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

a guy,

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

I don't know, I still come fully to terms with it. I recognize it for sure, but.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

that, if I'm

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

Yeah, I certainly would never call myself an abuser. Um, but I was like the emotion. I said, I think it's the indifference and the withdrawing from life and my relationships. That's a kind of abuse, whether you want to admit it or not. It really is. she didn't want me to come home because of the stress and the tension I was going to bring into the house and that's a survivor of abuse. There's no other way to put it. I would never, never, never call her names or was violent or anything like that. But I mean, she was traumatized by my just lack of anything. Yeah, truly traumatized. She'd like PTSD kind of from, you know, Just trying to live in a house with a guy who didn't give a shit about anything but drinking. Yeah, that was really hard. I'm still coming to terms with that, if I'm going to be honest, but I at least see it. I can recognize it and I'm not doing that anymore. Thank God. Um, well, yeah.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

you, you're, yeah,

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

Or whatever. Thank you.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

have you made amends, and I say that because I know that you mentioned that you follow, or you didn't say that you follow all the tenants of aa, but obviously one of the steps, was it step nine?

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

Yeah, something like that.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

Um,

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

amends to those we can and, yeah.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

It's

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

Uh, yeah, I have tried to make amends with everybody in my life. Not for the AA thing, just to prove that I've changed. So it's not just my wife or my son, it's my mom and my two sisters and all my friends that I'd just thrown away, basically, so I could drink. Uh, yeah, I'm trying to prove that. be there for all those people, and make up for not being there for them when they needed me. And yeah, making amends, I would say that's a big part of recovery.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

can I add on here?

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

Yep.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

Yep. Someone once said this to me and it really meant something. And maybe it will mean something to you if you haven't heard this. Don't forget to make amends to yourself. Yeah. Don't forget. It's

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

Mm hmm.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

as important. you're not the same person. Obviously you're the same person, but you're not that guy. You know, you're not that same Chris.

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

I used to think of myself as two people. So there was night guy, And day guy, night guy is the guy who likes to drink, and day guy is the guy who goes to work. And I've thought about myself like that for decades.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

I

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

I'm 43 right now,

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

guess,

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

and I've thought about that since I was about 19.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

forgiveness. Cause, night guy, day

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

Well, 13, when I started drinking.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

mindsets.

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

guy and day guy.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

used to always

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

And, uh,

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

of

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

recon er, um, what else was I looking for?

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

and forgiving night

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

Reconciling, I guess, and together, that involved a lot of self forgiveness. Cause night guy and day guy were the same guy. It's just different mindsets. Yeah, night guy used to always kick the shit out of the day guy. that's how I framed it when I was hungover or whatever. Yeah, bringing those two guys together was a big part of this too and forgiving night guy, if that makes sense.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

I

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

So I,

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

exists in everyone,

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

yeah,

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

with you.

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

yeah for sure.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

There's just levels. I think I had very, distinct, opposing forces, Good Angel, Bad Angel,

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

Oh yeah. Yeah.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

you want to call it. Is it Dr. Jekyll, Mr. Hyde? I don't

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

Yes. Yeah. The second one.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

um, either way, I think you get what I'm trying to say.

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

Yeah.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

these two opposing forces that were not working together well. And so I like to think that in getting sober and gaining the clarity, I also kind of leaned into the light, the goodness,

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

Yeah.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

in that. And that's not to say that like, parts of me don't still exist. Or of that using mindset, because I don't fully believe personally that you do ever fully recover.

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

Nor do I.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

Yeah, I think that's sometimes how you can get yourself

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

get back in there.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

yeah, a bad situation. You're like, oh, everything's fine. I don't

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

I've done so well, yeah.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

Um, so I, I consistently check in and once again, like, my drug of choice was alcohol and I just know That under no circumstances am I ever to touch it again,

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

Yeah.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

even if I think I can, I know I can't,

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

Yeah.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

sense.

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

Yeah.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

so thank you. I just want to wind down with Chris,

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

Sure.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

and I don't always like to frame this as though we are experts and we're, you know, imposing our wisdom onto the world, but I do think that you as an individual going through, your own experiences and being on the side of things, you have value and I would love to hear from you I guess my question is, if for anyone that feels alienated, by traditional recovery spaces or just Alienated maybe even in their drinking. What advice you give them for starting their journey?

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

Breathing.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

Yeah,

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

Yeah, taking time to breathe. Excuse me. I know that's maybe somewhat trite, but it really, I mean, that pulled me back from the edge. Just simple act of breathing. That's the best place to start. And that doesn't have anything to do with spirituality. That's just an action you can take. And it's an easy one, and it's very effective.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

Are you saying like to take actual step before you open said bottle and breathe?

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

yeah, reflect on why you're about to open that bottle, or go get that drink,

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

Yeah

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

Take that moment to just sit in it, and breathe. Yeah, yeah, that is the hard part, but it's also, The most important thing you can do, I think.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

Yeah for me, it's also, I would say, like, as you know, I'm not an expert with breathing, but I think in early sobriety, especially when I did experience slight cravings or I felt triggered, would respond in, how can I frame this, I would respond in a way that was suitable to the of urge I had. So, for example, if I had a minimal. Thought creep

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

Mm hmm.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

oh, I wish I could have a glass of wine,

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

Yeah.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

It wasn't like a level 10. It was like a level 3.

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

Yeah.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

I would take a moment and I would write in my journal or I just kept the writing notes up on my phone

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

Yeah.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

I would just like literally take the moment and this is I guess a mindfulness practice to Reflect in the moment, like how do you feel?

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

Mm hmm.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

you feel this way? Dig deeper, right? So like that was helpful and then it would kind of distract myself from the initial craving But if it was like say a level seven eight nine like

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

Yeah.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

craving like or a trigger like i'm in a space And it's like oh my god People are quite literally asking me to smell the tannins on their their red wine or

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

Mm hmm. Yeah. Mm hmm.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

then A, I need to get out of there. ASAP.

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

Yeah.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

also it for me would usually involve some kind of physical, which is breathing still, but like a big physical response. So like I work out a lot. So going for a run. I've screamed before, like full on screaming,

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

I have two. Yeah.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

to let it out. Because I feel like, body, holds on to so much trauma, the body holds on to so much emotions and like as someone who drank to distract myself from feelings, it was important for me to get those feelings out one way or another.

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

Yes.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

definitely resonate with the

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

I,

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

I

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

I, uh,

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

have to find something that works for them.

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

I agree and, excuse me, just go into a meeting. Like, if you're at that level of

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

Yeah.

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

If you don't buy into anything, just go where people have been there. That's a big thing you can do.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

just go and

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

Yeah.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

and be open, right?

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

Always in the past, the most slippery slope I was ever on was when I got the fuck it mentality. You know, yeah, I'm gonna go drink. Fuck it. Right? That's a dangerous place to be. Because I would always, always, always drink.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

Mm hmm.

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

That's it.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

Didn't have didn't have like I wouldn't frame it like fuck it. It was just my default mode. I don't even know like I didn't need the excuse to drink. Like it was just like happy sad anything in between. I'm drinking tonight. Like

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

Yeah.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

towards the end. like I said, when I first started drinking, it was always social because I was always super cognizant of what I didn't want to become and then it on COVID, you know,

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

Oh yeah.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

alone in the house, it completely exasperated my drinking and next thing you know, I have a real problem,

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

Yeah.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

know,

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

Yeah.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

I really just want to thank you so much, Chris, for coming on. I feel like I've learned so much from you. Some of the highlights include the importance of grounded recovery, obviously breathing, and just like any practical tools, I think people can resonate with, especially if they don't necessarily believe in the, the spiritual realm

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

Yeah.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

some of these recovery programs,

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

Yeah.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

I know that you're in the process of finalizing or finishing the book,

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

Yeah.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

so I want to just open the space for you to share how people can connect with you, how they can buy your book when it's ready, and just anything else that you would like to share around your book or the Pillars of Change or any of the action drivers.

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

Well, the book, I'm hoping to have it finished and published in March of next year. So, uh,

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

ready.

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

thank you. I will definitely let you know. I'll send you a copy. soberandgodless. com. So, that's my website. It's not set up yet. But I do have an email. It's soberandgodless. com.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

Cool. I

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

So, if anybody

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

in the show

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

wants to get a hold of me, they can get it there. But that's where all the updates and stuff will come through that website. I got it last week and I haven't worked on it yet.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

It's okay.

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

Yeah.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

progress. We

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

Exactly, yeah.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

in progresses. Like I said, I will plug that for folks at home who want to connect in the show notes. So check that out. That out, Chris. Thank you for coming on the sober butterfly. I think you have a working title,

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

Live unshakable, getting your shit together.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

getting your shit together.

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

Yeah. Well,

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

Um, thanks for coming on Chris. We appreciate you.

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029:

thank you very much for having me. Nice to meet you.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029:

Nice to meet you.