Practical Sobriety: Chris's Godless Path to Recovery

In this episode of the Sober Butterfly podcast, Nadine discusses with guest Chris about his book and his journey through addiction to sobriety. Chris candidly talks about how his excessive drinking led to professional struggles, a strained marriage, and neglecting his relationship with his young son. He shares that his transformation began with his decision to get sober, leading him to attend rehab and participate in AA meetings, though he struggled with the concept of a higher power. Chris detailed his post-rehab challenges, including his wife's request for a separation and dealing with loneliness and suicidal thoughts. He emphasizes mindfulness and breathing exercises as crucial tools in maintaining sobriety. Their discussion covers his methods of sustaining a healthy lifestyle, such as decluttering his space, redefining his values, and visualizing the person he wants to become. Chris concludes by highlighting the importance of resilience, support from loved ones, and making personal amends. He is currently working on his book 'Live Unshakable: Getting Your Shit Together,' aiming for a March release.

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Transcript

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 0:02

Hello. Hello. And welcome to the Sober Butterfly podcast. Today we have a very special guest. We are joined with Chris. Chris, welcome to the Sober Butterfly. How are you today?

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 0:14

Oh, I'm pretty good. No complaints. How are you?

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 0:17

you. I'm well, thank you for coming on. I'm really excited to talk about your book. I've had the opportunity to read segments of it and so far I'm loving what I'm reading. I appreciate the rawness and the honest reflection. And in the book, in the intro, you mentioned that when you finally decided to quote, get my shit together, my life was in ruins. I'm curious, Chris, can you actually take us back to that time? What did life look like for you?

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 0:46

Was drinking a lot every night. Like I'd finish at least a 2 6 of whiskey every single night. I still got up, I went to work, but yeah, things were just a mess. avoiding my life entirely. I didn't talk to my wife.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 0:59

was

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 1:00

my son.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 1:02

the

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 1:03

rough. I,

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 1:04

I just

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 1:06

was really struggling at work as well. I was late all the time.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 1:10

anything.

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 1:12

had no money. I had no ambition to do anything really. I just wanted to drink. That was life.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 1:44

Yeah,

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 1:51

It was, I just wanted to get away from everything so I could get drunk and not think about it.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 1:57

I do know what you mean. I can relate to that in many respects. When you mentioned being late to work and not performing not being your optimal self. That's very much something that I recognized I'm curious to learn from you Did the people closest to you recognize or pick up on your drinking?

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 2:16

Yes, for sure. in hindsight, they did. at the time I thought everybody fooled. I was just showing up and going through the motions of life, cooking meals for my family and, going to work every day, even though I was late half the time. Oh man, looking back on it now, it's that I'm a completely different person. I can't even fathom that guy anymore.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 2:39

Thank God for growth. Oh, not God. We'll get to that later, but thank goodness growth. so I'm You mentioned that you were, you know, a husband and father at this time, and I'm wondering just to get a little bit more. picture in terms of what that relationship was like, because being a father, being a husband, working full time, like these are big responsibilities. And so if you can just kind of go a little in depth for us and tell us like how those relationships or those dynamics played out in alignment to your drinking.

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 3:11

Well, my wife and I first got together, it was 10 years ago. We did everything together. we talked. We could talk for hours and just be happy. And somewhere along the way, I started prioritizing drinking over that. And she withdrew from me for sure. Our relationship changed and I didn't realize it. I was too hungover to not involved to realize it. But looking back now, I can see she'd been unhappy for a couple of years, at least before I got help. And, with my son is like, he's still quite young.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 3:47

He

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 3:47

two and three when this was going on. he's four right now.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 3:50

right now.

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 3:51

And,

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 3:51

I

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 3:52

I would

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 3:52

just,

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 3:53

When I was looking after him, I was more interested in scrolling through TikTok on my phone than, whatever he was into.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 3:59

into.

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 3:59

And I,

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 4:00

Oh

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 4:00

regret that so much.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 4:01

so much.

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 4:02

I miss so much just not being there, not being present.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 4:13

I wonder, Chris, do you consider yourself to be an alcoholic? And I just want to frame that question connection to the progressive nature of alcoholism. I'm wondering for you, like, what shifted? So if you've been with your wife for 10 years and then you became a father, I'm assuming this was a gradual progression. So I'm just curious to learn from you. Do you self identify as being an alcoholic? And then how did your drinking escalate or exasperate from this time?

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 4:41

I've always been a drinker, or I had always been a drinker. I grew up on the, I'm Canadian. I dunno if you knew that, but I'm, uh, I grew up in

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 4:48

I detected an accent. Yeah.

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 4:50

I grew up in Newfoundland, uh, on East Coast, and it's drinking's like a big part of the culture, so I've always drank. Honestly, it was when I started drinking whiskey that things started going off the rails. Like I'd go out and have beers with my friends and all, you know, normal stuff. And then. Whiskey became my drink of choice, and hiding in the basement, and not hanging out with anybody, became how I drank

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 5:15

It went from like social drinking to kind of self isolation, drinking in secrecy.

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 5:21

yeah, for sure. I'd actually, I'd tell my friends that, uh, I didn't want to go out, because I was trying to quit drinking. And what I would do that night, is I'd drink. I'd drink an entire bottle, but I just wanted to do it alone, where they couldn't see me. And when, yeah, that's how I drank. Shift in mindset was beginning at the end, I would say.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 5:42

The secrecy, the shame, that can keep people sick for a very long time. I also can relate to that. Towards the end of my drinking career, I was drinking alone. And the irony of that is addiction runs in my family. And I always told myself, like, I would never be that person. And the way in which it presented itself for me growing up was people drinking alone, and I thought it was so pathetic. I thought it was so above that, Chris. And then, of course, you know, towards the end, I started drinking more and more by myself. And similar to you,

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 6:13

The hiding away.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 6:15

yeah, denying plans with friends because I'm like, eh, I would rather just sit at home. My drink of choice towards the end was actually a lot of wine because I, Decided that I couldn't handle the liquor and I didn't trust myself with the liquor. So this was a way in which I was diluting myself into thinking that I could manage my drinking when in turn I just obviously needed to stop altogether. But, enough about me. thank you for sharing all of that. And so to go back. I know from reading. Parts of your book that rehab was actually a really pivotal part of your story and you wrote, I didn't have a plan beyond getting sober and finding some kind of stability. So I'm wondering what role rehab played in helping you find that stability.

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 6:59

Rehab wasn't my idea. So, the company I worked for, As an employee assistance program. And when I decided to actually get help, I went to my boss. And then that was HR. And I did an interview with Dr. Baker. And he suggested I go do a four week program.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 7:17

Didn't think I was going to go do this interview. Came through and suggested, yeah, you shouldn't go do a 20 day program. I was

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 7:34

All good.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 7:34

pretty

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 7:35

all good now.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 7:36

that

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 7:37

didn't think I was going to go to rehab to be honest. I did this interview and I lied to him straight up. I was like, I'm doing good. You know, things I haven't drank in a few days, which is a hundred percent lie. And he knew and he came through and suggested, yeah, you should go do a 20 day program. And I was pretty disappointed in that actually, cause I wanted to keep drinking. So when I went to,

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 7:59

I

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 7:59

excuse me.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 8:00

excuse

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 8:01

When I actually went to rehab, I was, I

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 8:03

I

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 8:03

don't know what my expectation was, but I thought they were going to teach me how to drink.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 8:06

I,

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 8:07

Not, not quit drinking,

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 8:09

teach me

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 8:09

yeah.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 8:10

it like a normal

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 8:12

Yeah, teach me how to do it like a normal person.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 8:14

addict's mind is

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 8:15

But yeah, the addict's mind is not good for that.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 8:22

So, you get to rehab, and I feel like this is actually a good opportunity to talk about first encounters with spiritual programs or rehabilitation programs that are aligned to spirituality, such as AA. AA, for folks who may not be familiar, there's a lot of literature, there's a lot of practices around. finding your higher power, finding something outside of yourself to anchor your sobriety. So, I'm curious from you, and I've also been privy from reading parts of your book that was daunting for you and that you said you kind of scoffed at the idea of, you know,

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 8:59

do,

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 9:00

So, what was that experience like in rehab when you go to your first AA meeting and everyone's talking about, you know,

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 9:07

Yeah, the steps I'll have, yeah.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 9:09

power. That's like one of the main tenets.

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 9:10

It is for sure. I felt a bit isolated for sure, but AA is a fantastic program. Like I still follow AA.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 9:16

still

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 9:17

that's where I found the community of

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 9:18

the higher

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 9:19

people who know where I've been.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 9:21

change me. sense?

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 9:22

but yeah, the higher power just, I've never really, I don't, I don't buy it. I don't think there's something outside of me that's trying to change me. It had to come from within. Does that make sense?

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 9:34

It makes sense. I want to hear more, but what I struggled with in the beginning,'cause I've also attended meetings. I struggled with the powerlessness of it and the or the serenity to something outside of yourself. That was a struggle point for me. And I do believe I am a person that does believe in. outside of myself, but even for me as someone who would, you know, consider themselves to be spiritual, or connected to some kind of higher power that was hard for me to be like, so I'm just supposed to surrender to something outside of myself when I'm the one that has to do this

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 10:06

Yeah,

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 10:06

can connect there.

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 10:07

I had to reframe the higher power into a purpose, a higher purpose.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 10:10

throughout

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 10:10

I think I mentioned that several times throughout the book,

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 10:13

book, but

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 10:13

to me, the higher powers became myself, the

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 10:17

the

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 10:17

could become.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 10:17

become

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 10:18

alcohol. Alcohol had not always ruled my life like it did now. So the higher purpose, yeah. So that became the vision of me without alcohol. And the father I could be for my son, Andy, is just, he's the inspiration behind everything.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 10:33

everything.

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 10:33

Like, he's the reason I wanted to change. Now, that being said, I had to want to change for myself. that really comes with, the higher purpose. Had to change for me.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 10:43

me.

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 10:44

So that higher purpose, the person I could be without alcohol,

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 10:49

became

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 10:49

Became my vision for me.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 10:51

me.

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 10:52

Changing myself to become the man I could be without alcohol was inspired by my son.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 10:59

man I could be without was inspired by my son. Okay.

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 11:20

Absolutely. Yeah.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 11:21

You're

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 11:21

You can't make changes

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 11:23

changes

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 11:23

else.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 11:24

Absolutely. And then like obviously the people around you closest to you will see said changes and benefit from said changes. But I feel like this shouldn't be controversial, but I've actually had. with people around this, like, I'm not a parent. So I feel like that always defaults to like, well, you don't understand. You're not a mom.

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 11:41

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 11:47

if it's an external motivator, but ultimately, like, I think sustaining sobriety really has to be because you want it, you want it for yourself and then, like I mentioned, other people will be impacted in the greatest possible way.

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 12:02

have to want to change yourself. Maybe that could be for somebody else, but you have to want to change yourself for somebody else.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 12:09

Yeah.

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 12:10

It's kind of a rabbit hole. No.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 12:17

already shared that traditional recovery paths, such as AA, and you're not faulting AA in terms of the, the many benefits and joys of finding community and connection and things like that. but in terms of like the higher power, the spirituality aspects of it, the traditional pathway really didn't resonate with you. how did that realization shape your approach to sobriety?

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 12:39

So, Language has always been very important to me. I've always been a writer, I started thinking of the words behind change. Like the integrity and integrity. balance and I don't think those words are always in my head for how I want to make my changes and eventually evolved into the book, obviously, but, I ignored the spirituality portion and focused more on the,

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 13:05

the,

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 13:07

they say,

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 13:07

say,

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 13:08

take what you want, leave the rest.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 13:09

rest.

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 13:09

So I took

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 13:10

took

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 13:12

what I wanted. I took, these words that were just bouncing around in my head and I'd say them over and over to myself.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 13:18

to myself. Mindfulness was

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 13:19

was a, a big one. That's been probably the biggest changer, or changer, is that a good word? The, uh, the biggest.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 13:26

good word.

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 13:27

Yeah, man, I'm not a good speaker. I'm good on paper.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 13:29

I've been on paper, but. Yeah, okay. Yeah, it's just people, these

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 13:35

Okay.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 13:36

kept

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 13:37

yeah, it was just these words that kept bouncing around in my head and that's what I would focus on, instead of,

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 13:43

Something

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 13:44

myself, the higher power, who had guided me to rehab or whatever.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 13:47

higher

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 13:48

don't buy that,

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 13:49

who

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 13:50

me to rehab. I knew I couldn't do it on my own,

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 13:52

so

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 13:53

but I got there.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 13:54

kind of need to rehab. I knew I couldn't do it.

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 14:07

Yeah.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 14:14

A parent, or you're not 100 percent buying into this idea that I need a change,

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 14:19

Mm hmm.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 14:19

in my life, instead of leaning into ideas and then reshaping them, as you mentioned, take what you need, leave the rest and deciding that you're going to actually listen to people share and listen to other gems of wisdom from these meetings. You didn't use it as a way to look for divides or look for ways to detract from what you can take away from the essence of AA or the essence of a meeting. I feel like so often, like if people aren't ready to change, there's just look for ways to like, stay the same, if that makes sense.

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 14:53

Absolutely.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 14:53

it's really great that you were able to refine it. or make addendums to the meetings and parts of your recovery that were applicable and felt authentic to you. So, I love that

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 15:07

AA to me is a wonderful program. I still go to meetings. I started a meeting where I work. Because I work out of town.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 15:13

So,

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 15:14

they're very important. The shares I hear in there, the compassion in those rooms is incredible. And I would never detract to AA because of the higher power stuff. I just adjust what I need to adjust to make it work for me.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 15:27

Yeah. I remember once a sponsor said, your higher power can be a tree.

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 15:33

Yeah.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 15:33

doesn't matter. Like, literally it doesn't matter. and I think for me, as a black woman, so often the literature we know is, like, it's like, Bill, this is early 20th century, you know, literature that's from a very, like, white male And

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 15:50

Yeah.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 15:51

distracting, but I've learned to, overlook the things that I obviously realize don't pertain to me. in 2024.

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 15:59

Exactly.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 16:00

I would love to talk about post rehab

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 16:03

Sure.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 16:03

I found really interesting that you said or mentioned That when you got out of rehab, it wasn't a seamless transition.

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 16:12

no.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 16:13

wasn't like, Oh, all of my problems are fixed and now I'm sober and life is great. And all of my interpersonal relationships are, you know, up.

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 16:22

Absolutely not.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 16:22

really struggled. So I would love to touch on that a little bit more because I didn't go to rehab to get sober. But I also really struggled in early sobriety. So

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 16:31

hmm.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 16:31

just curious to hear What that part of your life look like.

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 16:34

If you want to talk about rock bottom, that came a month after I got sober, or more than, a little more than a month after I got sober.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 16:40

I've never heard anyone say that before. Can you tell us more?

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 16:42

Absolutely, so I got out of rehab. My wife had told me she wanted a separation while I was in rehab, about

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 16:48

like that's not recommended.

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 16:50

No, probably not. But, uh, She was afraid of me coming home. Like,

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 16:54

sorry. I feel like that's actually the best time because

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 16:57

Yeah.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 16:57

and you can't drink over it.

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 16:59

Yeah, exactly. Yeah, no, I understand. Uh, she was afraid of me coming home. Like, I wasn't angry, violent, nothing like that. But, just the stress and the tension I brought into the house for her. She didn't want me to come back. She said she wanted a separation and I had moved out. I was, in the apartment that I was at, talking about, I'm in the apartment right now, but there were boxes everywhere, everything was a mess, I was just spinning mentally, I couldn't sleep, I couldn't eat,

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 17:29

eat.

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 17:30

And, yeah, first time in my life I actually genuinely considered killing myself. And that was, yeah, I was sober for over a month at that point.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 17:39

point.

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 17:40

I even loaded a pistol and held it in my head,

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 17:42

head.

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 17:42

I don't recommend doing that, but

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 17:44

but

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 17:44

it really opened my eyes to that, no, I don't want to, I don't want to end it, I just need to figure something out.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 17:49

I'm sorry to hear that, it sounds like despair you were feeling. I want to kind of sit with that. Was it because obviously you have all of these big life changes, right? Like your wife has asked for a separation. You've had to move out. You've moved out of rehab, moved into your own place. As you mentioned, boxes are everywhere. Your whole life was basically disrupted. And I'm going to add this caveat here. And was it the idea that you couldn't turn to alcohol I'm assuming alcohol was a source of solace for you

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 18:23

Absolutely,

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 18:24

in your

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 18:24

yeah, there was, that's what I would normally have done, was go get drunk and not think about it.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 18:30

Why didn't you?

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 18:35

I didn't want to. I didn't know how to go forward, but I didn't want to go backwards. Yeah, there's a liquor store. I could walk to it in less than two minutes if I wanted to get a drink right now, but I did, I just didn't want to go back that way.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 18:49

that's progress. That's growth right there.

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 18:51

but I didn't want to go forward either.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 18:53

forward, I guess would be

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 18:54

I didn't know how to go forward, I guess would be a better way to say that, but, yeah.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 19:03

What changed for you? So unfortunately you were feeling super low. Your rock bottom, contemplating taking your life, but choosing thankfully not to. What kept you going? What kept you sober? What kept you living?

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 19:19

Well, that night it was square breathing. Just breathe in for four, hold for four, exhale for four, hold for four, repeat.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 19:27

four.

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 19:27

That, that

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 19:29

that

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 19:29

took me back from the edge.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 19:30

I don't

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 19:31

I got,

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 19:32

I

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 19:32

calm down. And just, breathing is

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 19:36

He was

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 19:37

such a powerful weapon in Life, really, and facing struggles, which was, yeah, that was the worst struggle I've ever faced, for sure. now afterwards, after I got through that night, what kept me from not drinking? My son, I guess.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 19:52

guess.

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 19:53

I guess, it was, yeah,

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 19:54

yeah.

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 19:55

I'd keep the image of who I wanted to be for him

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 19:58

him

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 19:58

in my head.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 19:59

head.

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 20:00

That helped me move forward.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 20:02

So,

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 20:03

picturing, Gus. I picture our future together. he loves to draw,

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 20:10

draw.

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 20:10

he brings me up with little drawings, and they're fantastic. He's actually quite talented for a four year old. But, uh,

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 20:16

for a

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 20:17

or at least I think he is. Maybe it's just a parent thing, but,

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 20:19

I Maybe it's just

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 20:21

yeah, I just kept picturing how I wanted to be for him,

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 20:25

I wanted

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 20:26

and then

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 20:26

coming

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 20:27

coming up with how I was going to get there.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 20:29

kept going forward.

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 20:30

Yeah.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 20:31

up.

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 20:31

And that's how I kept going forward.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 20:33

just organized and prepared.

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 20:39

Cleaning up. Getting my apartment. Getting my space. Just organized.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 20:43

buy

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 20:44

Man.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 20:44

that I

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 20:45

Not only drinking, like, I'd buy stupid shit that I didn't need

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 20:50

just

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 20:51

chase that dopamine high, right?

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 20:52

high, right?

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 20:53

As they say,

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 20:54

they

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 20:54

you know, to overeat. I was over I was 300 pounds when I went to rehab. Okay.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 20:57

I went to

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 20:58

I do that kind of stuff

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 21:00

kind of stuff.

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 21:01

yeah, I'm still doing that after rehab,

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 21:03

I feel

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 21:03

so I

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 21:04

I've

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 21:06

purged my life. I spent a week, I went through everything that I

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 21:12

just got rid

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 21:12

had and I just got rid of most of it. I kept things I needed,

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 21:16

needed.

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 21:16

things that were important to me, like sentimental value or whatever. I kept some of that stuff, but

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 21:20

but

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 21:20

I got rid of everything. I cleaned up my space. And that,

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 21:25

Kondo'd it. I read that.

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 21:27

yeah,

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 21:27

Marie Kondo purge. And let me tell you, best decision ever, like to really sift through your personal belongings and you can feel it. It's like a visual, at least for me. I felt

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 21:38

Yeah. Absolutely.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 21:39

does this spark joy? you find something, you touch it, appraise it, evaluate it in that moment. If it doesn't spark joy,

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 21:47

Get rid of it.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 21:48

and then I saw to your point, like, does it have a place in my life? Like, do I physically know where I can put this

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 21:55

Yeah.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 21:56

belonging?

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 21:57

Even if it didn't bring me joy. And I, like my headphones, I still need headphones, but I wasn't going to throw them away, but they don't even bring me joy by any means. You know what I mean?

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 22:05

They're functional,

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 22:05

Yeah. They're functional.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 22:06

And you have a place for them, I'm assuming now.

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 22:08

Yeah, I have my ear right now, so. Yeah, once I'd done,

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 22:13

your life

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 22:13

big time,

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 22:14

yeah.

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 22:15

once I had that done, that's where the concept of clarity came in. Clarity was the first part, I think I say it in the part you read where I was just doing square breathing, lying on my bed,

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 22:26

bed.

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 22:26

and it was like,

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 22:27

was like

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 22:28

Someone said it aloud in the room. It was my own voice, I guess, but I was half asleep

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 22:32

Chris, it was your higher

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 22:33

No, it wasn't. Yeah, it was my, it was,

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 22:38

was,

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 22:39

yeah, it was wild. Just, I've never had such a visceral reaction to that, like, a word before. Like, my blood pressure spiked, I think. I was like, yeah, that's where I gotta start. So, clarity became what I was searching for.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 22:53

like,

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 22:54

Sifting through all the crap and,

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 22:56

and

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 22:56

of my life to find out what I wanted to keep. Not just physical stuff, I mean like,

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 23:02

like

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 23:02

the way I was eating, the way I was not exercising.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 23:06

I needed

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 23:08

just

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 23:09

live

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 23:10

I was living.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 23:11

see

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 23:12

with clarity to find it, see where I wanted to go, cause it wasn't working for me, obviously. Right?

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 23:17

wasn't

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 23:19

Yeah. Hmm.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 23:26

Sobriety, obviously removing the toxic substances can lead to that, but to your point, I think it needs to also be reflected in how you live your life and if my apartment, if my space is dirty, cluttered, It's a reflection of how my inner feelings are mentally like I feel like I'm cluttered. I feel like I'm all over the place and crazy and just another quick connection between you and I, I read in the book, you mentioned that you had undiagnosed ADHD. I also did. And I think I was using that as an excuse to explain or justify the chaos that pervaded in my life, but truly, you know, I think it was more so a reflection of who I am. where I was in my life. And so cleaning up, I think also really does have an impact on, how you go about your day, your routines, your lifestyle as a whole. It's not just about quitting alcohol. And I think that's the biggest lesson I've taken away so far from hearing parts of your story. Like, that's why I wanted to hone in, in the post rehab situation, because yeah, you weren't drinking alcohol. But you also weren't happy.

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 24:35

That was dumb.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 24:35

want to remind folks at home, like, getting sober. Yes, it can fix a lot of things. It can change your life for the better. But I think there's a lot more work to get done basically is the point

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 24:44

Absolutely.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 24:45

now I feel like that's a good segue to talk a little bit about the six action drivers that you mentioned in your

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 24:52

Yeah.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 24:52

actually before we get to the six action drivers, I want to talk about the pillars of change that you mentioned, because

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 24:58

Yeah.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 24:58

on clarity. So you have clarity,

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 25:01

Diligence, equanimity, and stalwartness. Yeah.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 25:06

these important to you or transformative for you? Is that always

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 25:10

obviously it all started with Clarity.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 25:12

next?

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 25:12

That was the, driving force behind my change, getting back to being a happy person. Because I'd always been a happy person. I was a happy drunk, like, I wasn't depressed or anything, I just, yeah. after Clarity I just kept looking for the next thing.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 25:28

thing,

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 25:28

The next concept that was going to move me forward.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 25:31

me

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 25:31

I hadn't come up with the pillars of change and all this stuff at the time.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 25:33

was just

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 25:34

I wanted the next word that was going to help me

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 25:37

me

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 25:38

keep things together,

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 25:39

You know,

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 25:39

I work in construction or have for a long time

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 25:41

time.

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 25:42

and you hear due diligence in there a lot,

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 25:44

a lot.

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 25:45

and that's just

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 25:46

just

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 25:47

showing up and doing with being prepared for everything. And that kind of resonated with me. Diligence became the second.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 25:54

How am

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 25:55

How am I going to be diligent in my life of clarity? You know, getting sober, and

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 25:59

sober,

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 25:59

how am I going to maintain,

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 26:00

Even

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 26:01

Yeah,

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 26:01

don't

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 26:02

yeah,

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 26:02

Yeah.

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 26:03

no one's looking.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 26:03

Right.

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 26:04

live alone now.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 26:04

I

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 26:05

slip back into habits and nobody would know. Well, they would, but not immediately. Yeah, so, actually writing the book is how the pillars and all that came about. So, equanimity was another one.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 26:22

one.

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 26:22

I had heard the term in rehab.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 26:25

basically like balance.

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 26:27

it's, how do I describe it? It's

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 26:29

It's responding.

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 26:30

instead of reacting.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 26:32

Oh,

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 26:32

Right? So it's

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 26:35

things

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 26:36

taking things in and thinking about it before you react to it.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 26:39

to it.

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 26:39

So you respond to situations instead of just the knee jerk

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 26:42

jerk

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 26:43

reaction.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 26:44

Yeah.

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 26:44

responding to that instead of reacting. And, stalwartness is just, that's where I want to be.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 26:49

to

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 26:50

just be that steady presence for people I love in my life.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 26:54

life.

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 26:54

My son, obviously, but everybody else around me, the people.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 26:57

Yeah.

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 26:59

I want to turn it on its head and not be the,

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 27:01

the,

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 27:01

not be the degenerate that's,

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 27:03

that's,

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 27:04

you know,

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 27:04

the,

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 27:06

I'm drunk all the time and people are stressed out. They don't want to see, be around me or whatever. I want to flip that. I want to be the guy they go to.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 27:11

Mm.

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 27:12

and stalwartness to me is, that's what that is, right?

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 27:15

right? I love all of those, tenets and, or refer to them, all of the pillars of change. I think that's a great way to. Talk about exploring practical sobriety tools that you mentioned. So the six action drivers in your book are integrity, balance, resilience, compassion, purpose, and mindfulness.

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 27:37

Yeah.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 27:38

I find these

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 27:39

Hardest

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 27:40

Which of these did you actually find the hardest to implement and why?

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 27:44

Mindfulness is the, probably the hardest one to implement. To make it a part of your life. It's bringing your attention back to the present moment. That's all that means. And, That's really hard to do. Like,

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 27:57

Yeah.

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 27:57

not look forward, not see where, where things are going. Try not to focus on the future, on mistakes of the past. That's a difficult thing to do.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 28:06

Yeah.

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 28:06

I mean, mindfulness people think of meditation, but it's more than that. It's like standing in the shower and just feeling the water coming over, falling over your skin.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 28:16

That's

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 28:17

moment.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 28:18

mindful

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 28:19

it's hard, it's, it's nice to do that. It's just Focus on what's happening right now.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 28:26

just, focus on what's happening right now. I wouldn't consider myself to be an anxious person, although my therapist may

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 28:36

Yeah. Ha ha ha.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 28:42

I was immediately like, Oh, yes, I love the shower because my best thinking happens in the shower because I'm just, I'm planning out my day, my month, my year,

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 28:51

Yeah.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 28:52

in the shower. And I've never, I don't think I've ever, at least in recent times, really just thought Use that moment. I love to shower just like really think about. Oh, how does this water feel,

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 29:03

Oh, it feels fantastic.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 29:05

It does

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 29:05

yeah. Ha

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 29:08

my whole life story So yeah, thank you for I actually

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 29:13

Yeah.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 29:15

to your point mindfulness is more than meditation I'm someone who chronically struggles with meditating. I still try. I do a lot of mindfulness journaling practices because I find that's easier for me than, you know, sitting quietly for x amount of time trying to quiet or quell my thoughts. Like, it's really, really difficult for me, as a person that has ADHD, especially,

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 29:38

Yeah.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 29:38

like that you mentioned that specific example because there are many moments, in our life where we can just be

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 29:46

Yeah, absolutely. Any moment. You just need to come back and take a breath. Think about what's going on right now around you. Not mistakes, not planning for the future. Just coming back to yourself. It's hard to do. It's hard to get that practice. I know everybody says it's like a muscle. The more you do it, the easier it becomes.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 30:09

did the breathing exercises help you get to that place?

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 30:13

They did. Square breathing. If I'm really anxious or I'm really struggling, I'll sit in my bedroom, in the dark, with a ticking clock. And I'll just breathe in for four, hold for four, out for four. And that, if I do that for ten minutes, the day becomes a lot better. Ha ha ha ha ha ha.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 30:33

like that's my problem. I'm like 10 minutes of just deep breathing and

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 30:37

Yeah.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 30:38

to breathe and I do yoga. Sometimes I'm a big Pilates girl. I'm like, they'll try and integrate like a little breathing exercises and I have to root myself. I'm like, I want to walk out of class, but I'm going to do this

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 30:48

Yeah.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 30:48

it feels good to breathe. and center yourself in your body. But yeah, that's really hard for me.

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 30:53

That was hard for me in the beginning, too. Like, even doing it for five minutes was hard, but just,

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 31:00

way

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 31:01

Exactly.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 31:01

that place.

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 31:02

I find that the square breathing, especially with the ticking clock, makes it a lot easier because you just count one, two, three, four. You just focus on your, on the count basically. And I'll set a timer on my phone and you'd be surprised how quickly that ten minutes goes by once you actually start to get there. You know what I mean?

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 31:23

No,

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 31:23

No, but okay.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 31:24

out I, may have to find out. I'm just a go, go, go person, but I know it's not always

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 31:31

Oh, I am too.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 31:32

or sustainable, but yeah, I will try it and I will email you. I'll let, you know,

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 31:38

Yeah, please do.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 31:38

be for 5 minutes. I'm not going to pretend

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 31:41

ha ha ha ha ha.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 31:45

And I'll be like, okay, like, how does that feel? so yeah, thank you for sharing that, and I encourage anyone listening at home to also maybe try the four, it's called the four square method,

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 31:54

square breathing.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 31:56

breathing, okay, square breathing, inhale for four, hold for four, exhale for four, repeat,

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 32:01

And hold for four on the exhale too.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 32:03

oh, and hold for

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 32:04

It's sixteen seconds in total.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 32:06

Okay,

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 32:06

Yeah. Four squares. Yeah. Mm hmm. Mm

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 32:10

I love that. So you emphasize building recovery on values anyone can adopt, not just those tied to belief systems.

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 32:19

hmm.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 32:19

you see these tools working for someone who might still be struggling to commit to sobriety?

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 32:25

It's a good question. Resilience is probably, I don't know. It drove a lot of how I was dealing with my ex wife, I guess. We're still married, but We're living separated, yeah. Still separated, yeah. So, resilience, yeah. So I did realize that I had no control over how she feels. Like, that was, it's her thing. I can't influence that, but

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 32:50

but

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 32:50

I can be resilient

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 32:51

and

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 32:52

Be

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 32:52

be

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 32:53

she needs me to be to, for Andy,

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 32:55

Yeah.

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 32:56

I can,

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 32:57

can,

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 32:57

can do all the things I used to say I would do, but never actually did. Uh, yeah, it became a big part of how I would, how I rebuilt my relationship with her. We have a great relationship now. We're still separated, but yeah, everything's about Andy.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 33:16

I'm nosy, and you do not have to answer this question, but is there any chance of reconciliation between

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 33:23

I think so. Yeah, we're still working on it, for sure. But, she's got a lot of shit to forgive. And I do too, because, I mean, getting kicked out three or four days before I get out of rehab was kind of a, yeah, kind of a real kick in the, guts there.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 33:40

But do you think she noticed a real change in you?

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 33:44

I would say so, yeah. She's told me. She likes the new me, so. Yeah. Uh, anyway, sorry.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 33:54

can work it out if it's meant to be. I know that was off

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 33:58

No, that's all good. It's all good.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 33:59

that to work out if it's meant to be as mentioned, especially because you guys have a beautiful son together. But I digress.

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 34:07

It's all good.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 34:09

Yeah, emotional abuse isn't always allowed. What a transition, right? So, um, I mean, I think this reflection is striking. How did you come to terms with the impact of your actions your relationships?

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 34:23

Oh, that took,

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 34:24

a guy,

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 34:24

I don't know, I still come fully to terms with it. I recognize it for sure, but.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 34:28

that, if I'm

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 34:29

Yeah, I certainly would never call myself an abuser. Um, but I was like the emotion. I said, I think it's the indifference and the withdrawing from life and my relationships. That's a kind of abuse, whether you want to admit it or not. It really is. she didn't want me to come home because of the stress and the tension I was going to bring into the house and that's a survivor of abuse. There's no other way to put it. I would never, never, never call her names or was violent or anything like that. But I mean, she was traumatized by my just lack of anything. Yeah, truly traumatized. She'd like PTSD kind of from, you know, Just trying to live in a house with a guy who didn't give a shit about anything but drinking. Yeah, that was really hard. I'm still coming to terms with that, if I'm going to be honest, but I at least see it. I can recognize it and I'm not doing that anymore. Thank God. Um, well, yeah.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 35:46

you, you're, yeah,

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 35:47

Or whatever. Thank you.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 35:50

have you made amends, and I say that because I know that you mentioned that you follow, or you didn't say that you follow all the tenants of aa, but obviously one of the steps, was it step nine?

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 36:01

Yeah, something like that.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 36:02

Um,

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 36:02

amends to those we can and, yeah.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 36:04

It's

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 36:06

Uh, yeah, I have tried to make amends with everybody in my life. Not for the AA thing, just to prove that I've changed. So it's not just my wife or my son, it's my mom and my two sisters and all my friends that I'd just thrown away, basically, so I could drink. Uh, yeah, I'm trying to prove that. be there for all those people, and make up for not being there for them when they needed me. And yeah, making amends, I would say that's a big part of recovery.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 36:43

can I add on here?

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 36:44

Yep.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 36:44

Yep. Someone once said this to me and it really meant something. And maybe it will mean something to you if you haven't heard this. Don't forget to make amends to yourself. Yeah. Don't forget. It's

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 37:04

Mm hmm.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 37:04

as important. you're not the same person. Obviously you're the same person, but you're not that guy. You know, you're not that same Chris.

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 37:12

I used to think of myself as two people. So there was night guy, And day guy, night guy is the guy who likes to drink, and day guy is the guy who goes to work. And I've thought about myself like that for decades.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 37:23

I

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 37:23

I'm 43 right now,

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 37:25

guess,

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 37:25

and I've thought about that since I was about 19.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 37:27

forgiveness. Cause, night guy, day

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 37:29

Well, 13, when I started drinking.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 37:31

mindsets.

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 37:31

guy and day guy.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 37:32

used to always

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 37:33

And, uh,

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 37:34

of

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 37:35

recon er, um, what else was I looking for?

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 37:38

and forgiving night

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 37:39

Reconciling, I guess, and together, that involved a lot of self forgiveness. Cause night guy and day guy were the same guy. It's just different mindsets. Yeah, night guy used to always kick the shit out of the day guy. that's how I framed it when I was hungover or whatever. Yeah, bringing those two guys together was a big part of this too and forgiving night guy, if that makes sense.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 38:05

I

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 38:05

So I,

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 38:06

exists in everyone,

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 38:07

yeah,

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 38:07

with you.

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 38:08

yeah for sure.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 38:09

There's just levels. I think I had very, distinct, opposing forces, Good Angel, Bad Angel,

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 38:17

Oh yeah. Yeah.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 38:19

you want to call it. Is it Dr. Jekyll, Mr. Hyde? I don't

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 38:22

Yes. Yeah. The second one.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 38:24

um, either way, I think you get what I'm trying to say.

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 38:27

Yeah.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 38:28

these two opposing forces that were not working together well. And so I like to think that in getting sober and gaining the clarity, I also kind of leaned into the light, the goodness,

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 38:42

Yeah.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 38:42

in that. And that's not to say that like, parts of me don't still exist. Or of that using mindset, because I don't fully believe personally that you do ever fully recover.

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 38:55

Nor do I.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 38:56

Yeah, I think that's sometimes how you can get yourself

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 39:00

get back in there.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 39:01

yeah, a bad situation. You're like, oh, everything's fine. I don't

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 39:04

I've done so well, yeah.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 39:06

Um, so I, I consistently check in and once again, like, my drug of choice was alcohol and I just know That under no circumstances am I ever to touch it again,

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 39:17

Yeah.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 39:18

even if I think I can, I know I can't,

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 39:21

Yeah.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 39:21

sense.

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 39:22

Yeah.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 39:22

so thank you. I just want to wind down with Chris,

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 39:25

Sure.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 39:26

and I don't always like to frame this as though we are experts and we're, you know, imposing our wisdom onto the world, but I do think that you as an individual going through, your own experiences and being on the side of things, you have value and I would love to hear from you I guess my question is, if for anyone that feels alienated, by traditional recovery spaces or just Alienated maybe even in their drinking. What advice you give them for starting their journey?

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 39:58

Breathing.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 40:00

Yeah,

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 40:00

Yeah, taking time to breathe. Excuse me. I know that's maybe somewhat trite, but it really, I mean, that pulled me back from the edge. Just simple act of breathing. That's the best place to start. And that doesn't have anything to do with spirituality. That's just an action you can take. And it's an easy one, and it's very effective.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 40:23

Are you saying like to take actual step before you open said bottle and breathe?

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 40:31

yeah, reflect on why you're about to open that bottle, or go get that drink,

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 40:34

Yeah

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 40:35

Take that moment to just sit in it, and breathe. Yeah, yeah, that is the hard part, but it's also, The most important thing you can do, I think.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 40:49

Yeah for me, it's also, I would say, like, as you know, I'm not an expert with breathing, but I think in early sobriety, especially when I did experience slight cravings or I felt triggered, would respond in, how can I frame this, I would respond in a way that was suitable to the of urge I had. So, for example, if I had a minimal. Thought creep

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 41:19

Mm hmm.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 41:20

oh, I wish I could have a glass of wine,

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 41:23

Yeah.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 41:24

It wasn't like a level 10. It was like a level 3.

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 41:27

Yeah.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 41:28

I would take a moment and I would write in my journal or I just kept the writing notes up on my phone

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 41:34

Yeah.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 41:34

I would just like literally take the moment and this is I guess a mindfulness practice to Reflect in the moment, like how do you feel?

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 41:41

Mm hmm.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 41:42

you feel this way? Dig deeper, right? So like that was helpful and then it would kind of distract myself from the initial craving But if it was like say a level seven eight nine like

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 41:51

Yeah.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 41:52

craving like or a trigger like i'm in a space And it's like oh my god People are quite literally asking me to smell the tannins on their their red wine or

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 42:00

Mm hmm. Yeah. Mm hmm.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 42:02

then A, I need to get out of there. ASAP.

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 42:05

Yeah.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 42:05

also it for me would usually involve some kind of physical, which is breathing still, but like a big physical response. So like I work out a lot. So going for a run. I've screamed before, like full on screaming,

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 42:19

I have two. Yeah.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 42:20

to let it out. Because I feel like, body, holds on to so much trauma, the body holds on to so much emotions and like as someone who drank to distract myself from feelings, it was important for me to get those feelings out one way or another.

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 42:38

Yes.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 42:38

definitely resonate with the

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 42:39

I,

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 42:40

I

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 42:40

I, uh,

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 42:41

have to find something that works for them.

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 42:43

I agree and, excuse me, just go into a meeting. Like, if you're at that level of

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 42:47

Yeah.

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 42:48

If you don't buy into anything, just go where people have been there. That's a big thing you can do.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 42:56

just go and

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 42:57

Yeah.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 42:58

and be open, right?

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 43:00

Always in the past, the most slippery slope I was ever on was when I got the fuck it mentality. You know, yeah, I'm gonna go drink. Fuck it. Right? That's a dangerous place to be. Because I would always, always, always drink.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 43:15

Mm hmm.

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 43:17

That's it.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 43:17

Didn't have didn't have like I wouldn't frame it like fuck it. It was just my default mode. I don't even know like I didn't need the excuse to drink. Like it was just like happy sad anything in between. I'm drinking tonight. Like

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 43:30

Yeah.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 43:31

towards the end. like I said, when I first started drinking, it was always social because I was always super cognizant of what I didn't want to become and then it on COVID, you know,

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 43:43

Oh yeah.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 43:44

alone in the house, it completely exasperated my drinking and next thing you know, I have a real problem,

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 43:51

Yeah.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 43:51

know,

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 43:51

Yeah.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 43:52

I really just want to thank you so much, Chris, for coming on. I feel like I've learned so much from you. Some of the highlights include the importance of grounded recovery, obviously breathing, and just like any practical tools, I think people can resonate with, especially if they don't necessarily believe in the, the spiritual realm

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 44:12

Yeah.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 44:12

some of these recovery programs,

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 44:14

Yeah.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 44:15

I know that you're in the process of finalizing or finishing the book,

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 44:19

Yeah.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 44:19

so I want to just open the space for you to share how people can connect with you, how they can buy your book when it's ready, and just anything else that you would like to share around your book or the Pillars of Change or any of the action drivers.

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 44:34

Well, the book, I'm hoping to have it finished and published in March of next year. So, uh,

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 44:42

ready.

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 44:43

thank you. I will definitely let you know. I'll send you a copy. soberandgodless. com. So, that's my website. It's not set up yet. But I do have an email. It's soberandgodless. com.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 44:53

Cool. I

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 44:54

So, if anybody

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 44:54

in the show

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 44:55

wants to get a hold of me, they can get it there. But that's where all the updates and stuff will come through that website. I got it last week and I haven't worked on it yet.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 45:03

It's okay.

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 45:03

Yeah.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 45:04

progress. We

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 45:04

Exactly, yeah.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 45:05

in progresses. Like I said, I will plug that for folks at home who want to connect in the show notes. So check that out. That out, Chris. Thank you for coming on the sober butterfly. I think you have a working title,

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 45:18

Live unshakable, getting your shit together.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 45:21

getting your shit together.

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 45:22

Yeah. Well,

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 45:27

Um, thanks for coming on Chris. We appreciate you.

squadcaster-48f9_2_11-19-2024_153029 45:31

thank you very much for having me. Nice to meet you.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-19-2024_173029 45:35

Nice to meet you.