FULL EPISODE: Dating, Anxiety, and Finding Joy in Sobriety with Madeline Forrest from Happiest Sober

In this FULL episode of The Sober Butterfly, host Nadine Mulvina welcomes special guest Madeline Forrest, known as Maddie from Happiest Sober. Beginning with a fun icebreaker, Maddie shares her journey from a timid, anxious drinker to a brave, optimistic, and proud sober woman. 

The discussion covers her initial struggles with alcohol, experiences dating while sober, and the development of her high standards and self-love in sobriety. Maddie reveals the emotional turning points that led to her commitment to sobriety, her coping strategies, and the profound impact of her sober lifestyle on her relationships and career. 

Throughout the episode, Maddie provides valuable advice for those navigating sobriety, emphasizing the importance of self-compassion and the personal growth that comes from facing challenges head-on.

This episode is also available on YouTube for your viewing pleasure:

Watch here ➡️ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s_Td1XATr9o&t=77s

Connect with Maddie 🌈

Instagram: @happiest sober

Podcast: Happiest Sober
Community: https://www.happiestsober.com/

Connect with Nadine and TSB 🦋

• Instagram: @the.soberbutterfly @soberbutterflypodcast
•  YouTube:@thesoberbutterfly

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Transcript

Nadine: 0:02

Hello. Hello. And welcome to the Sober Butterfly. I'm your host Nadine. And today we are joined with a very special guest. We have Madeline, AKA Maddie from Happiest Sober. Maddie, welcome to the show.

Madeline: 0:16

Hi, thanks so much for having me. I'm so excited to be here.

Nadine: 0:20

I am so excited to have you here I would love to just play a quick getting to know Maddie game. Is that cool?

squadcaster-9cf4_2_01-28-2025_170833: 0:26

Yeah.

the-sober-butterfly_2_01-28-2025_190833: 0:29

So my first question for you, Maddie, if you could describe yourself in three words, what would they be?

squadcaster-9cf4_2_01-28-2025_170833: 0:37

Oh my God. Describe myself in three words. I'll say sober because that's a part of myself that I'm proud of. Sober. I think I'm an optimist.

the-sober-butterfly_2_01-28-2025_190833: 0:49

Love that.

squadcaster-9cf4_2_01-28-2025_170833: 0:50

and I think, you know what, since I got sober, I would also use the word brave. I think I've become a much more brave person in sobriety. Oh,

the-sober-butterfly_2_01-28-2025_190833: 1:01

list of questions, but now I'm thinking about it. Okay. If you could describe Maddie, not sober, what three words?

squadcaster-9cf4_2_01-28-2025_170833: 1:10

Anxious fearful, like definitely lived a much smaller, more timid kind of in my shell life. And just a little lost. I would say lost.

the-sober-butterfly_2_01-28-2025_190833: 1:22

Yeah, that's fair. I was listening to your podcast, Happiest Sober, which I love. I'm going to plug that in the show notes in case people want to listen as well. And there was one episode that you did where you gave a little bit of insight into your sober journey. Something that you mentioned was this idea of like your first drunk experience being a blackout experience, correct?

squadcaster-9cf4_2_01-28-2025_170833: 1:44

My first like getting drunk experience was, I don't know if I fully blacked out that night, but I got super drunk and I woke up with terrible anxiety from the very first time I ever got drunk, but

the-sober-butterfly_2_01-28-2025_190833: 1:58

Okay.

squadcaster-9cf4_2_01-28-2025_170833: 1:59

early drinking days, I blacked out a lot. Yeah.

the-sober-butterfly_2_01-28-2025_190833: 2:02

Okay. Got you. Walk us back. This is my other rapid fire question for you. Drinking Maddie. Why did you drink? And I know that's a hard question to answer, but like, what do you think was your main reason or your why for turning to alcohol?

squadcaster-9cf4_2_01-28-2025_170833: 2:18

I think in my early days I would have said fun. Like, I think that was genuinely my why for it in the beginning was I was like, it's so much fun. But by the end of my drinking days, anything was an excuse to drink. If I was having a good time, I wanted to drink to make it more fun. If I was having a bad time, I wanted to drink to numb that. I think my life in the end became very revolved around alcohol and it was what I reached for to deal with any emotion. And it was also. Kind of the main thing I really looked forward to, which is a sad statement.

the-sober-butterfly_2_01-28-2025_190833: 2:53

So I already know the answer to this, but I want people to also understand more coffee or tea. You have the best like stories, Instagram stories every morning, like good morning and it's a cup of coffee. So how do you take your coffee?

squadcaster-9cf4_2_01-28-2025_170833: 3:09

Oh, I take my coffee black.

the-sober-butterfly_2_01-28-2025_190833: 3:11

Oh my God.

squadcaster-9cf4_2_01-28-2025_170833: 3:13

Yeah. Are you a coffee drinker?

the-sober-butterfly_2_01-28-2025_190833: 3:14

I'm like, Oh yes,

squadcaster-9cf4_2_01-28-2025_170833: 3:16

Okay.

the-sober-butterfly_2_01-28-2025_190833: 3:16

am.

squadcaster-9cf4_2_01-28-2025_170833: 3:16

How do you take yours?

the-sober-butterfly_2_01-28-2025_190833: 3:18

So I used to be a straight up black girl. That's also like reminiscent of my drinking days. Like, I don't need a chaser. Give it to me straight. Oh,

squadcaster-9cf4_2_01-28-2025_170833: 3:29

alcohol. That's so

the-sober-butterfly_2_01-28-2025_190833: 3:30

you were.

squadcaster-9cf4_2_01-28-2025_170833: 3:30

would

the-sober-butterfly_2_01-28-2025_190833: 3:31

I was. I was definitely like, yeah, I don't want, I don't want the extra. Just give me the thing. But then actually, I just feel like it's a bit harsh on my stomach because usually I drink coffee first thing in the morning. I know that's not a good. Tip, like you should probably eat or like have water, but like I'm pretty much like straight to the coffee So now I do coffee with a splash just like a splash of almond milk

squadcaster-9cf4_2_01-28-2025_170833: 3:56

Ooh, that's good. I love any type of coffee. Like if I'm doing ice, then I'll get something like sweet. It like, if I'm drinking hot coffee, it's black.

the-sober-butterfly_2_01-28-2025_190833: 4:06

That's so funny. I'm the opposite. If I'm doing iced the ice literally like dilutes it. So I'm good. I don't need anything else Yeah, it's so funny how that works. Okay. Anyway, one more rapid fire question for you Okay, I know that you have run some really cool sober trips with your community. I definitely saw Costa Rica. Where else have you gone?

squadcaster-9cf4_2_01-28-2025_170833: 4:28

Croatia. So I've done Costa Rica and Croatia are the two sober trips I've done.

the-sober-butterfly_2_01-28-2025_190833: 4:32

That's incredible. So if you could live anywhere in the world for a year, where would it be?

squadcaster-9cf4_2_01-28-2025_170833: 4:38

Okay. So I I lived in Australia for a year and that's where I did some of my worst drinking. And now this stage of my life, I would love to go back and do Australia sober. So that's still my answer. I would do Australia again, but I would do it right this time and I would do it sober.

the-sober-butterfly_2_01-28-2025_190833: 4:56

That's beautiful. Give us a little bit more on that. Like how old were you when you did this? Was this a study abroad? Like what was the setup? Like,

squadcaster-9cf4_2_01-28-2025_170833: 5:04

So I was 24 and I had just gotten out of a five year relationship and I had actually like already done school and I was working a job in my industry. I was at the beginning of my career, but then getting out of that relationship, I kind of had this like, you know what, I'm like, I'm still young. I'm not tied down. Like, this is kind of the time. So I just quit my job and I went and this is one of my, like, and I. I won't say I regret it because I think it was a super important part of my journey, but it's the thing that I've felt the most regret about for sure is that I went there being like, this is going to be like a year of self discovery and grow that I'm going to like, I thought it would be this awesome growth experience for me. And it got So derailed by my drinking. So I went and like, that's where my drinking really took a turn where I was drinking almost every day. And ironically, it did end up being a stepping stone to my growth because I think it was an important stepping stone to me getting sober when I did. But yeah, I would love to go back and do it again. Sober.

the-sober-butterfly_2_01-28-2025_190833: 6:04

Oh I see that in the future for you. Oh, you can make it happen.

squadcaster-9cf4_2_01-28-2025_170833: 6:08

I hope so.

the-sober-butterfly_2_01-28-2025_190833: 6:09

That's incredible. I've been to close to 50 countries, never been to Australia. It's high on my list.

squadcaster-9cf4_2_01-28-2025_170833: 6:15

Oh, you have, okay. You have to message me when you go and we'll chat about it. That's amazing. You've been to 50 countries.

the-sober-butterfly_2_01-28-2025_190833: 6:21

Yeah, I want to go to more. It's my favorite thing to do. And ironically, it's always been my favorite thing to do, even when I was drinking, but everything is different now. Like I actually enjoy and remember my trip And I'm not putting myself in crazy situations. And funny enough, I also lived abroad for a year. I lived in Mexico. It's not a broad to the country. I don't know. I lived in another country. And so it was really a fun experience, but similar to what you mentioned, My drinking escalated and it was probably at its worst.

squadcaster-9cf4_2_01-28-2025_170833: 6:52

Yep.

the-sober-butterfly_2_01-28-2025_190833: 6:53

so yes,

squadcaster-9cf4_2_01-28-2025_170833: 6:55

when you like go live abroad somewhere, at least for me, I ended up making it this like free pass of like, I'm on this cool, like holiday experience. I'm going to just drink YOLO kind of thing, which like looking back, I'm like, Oh, what a waste that was. But I've talked to a lot of people who have had that same experience of like living abroad and then that's when they drink the heaviest

the-sober-butterfly_2_01-28-2025_190833: 7:16

And I also thought it would be like this transformative adventure. It,

squadcaster-9cf4_2_01-28-2025_170833: 7:21

right.

the-sober-butterfly_2_01-28-2025_190833: 7:22

well actually it, it helped me recognize how bad my drinking was and I came home. I was like, okay, I'm done. So

squadcaster-9cf4_2_01-28-2025_170833: 7:32

little bit longer after I came home to be done, but

the-sober-butterfly_2_01-28-2025_190833: 7:35

for 25 mid twenties, I was 30. I just hit 30 and

squadcaster-9cf4_2_01-28-2025_170833: 7:38

Okay.

the-sober-butterfly_2_01-28-2025_190833: 7:39

That's, that was my time.

squadcaster-9cf4_2_01-28-2025_170833: 7:41

Yep.

the-sober-butterfly_2_01-28-2025_190833: 7:41

I've given like 10 plus years of my life to drinking. I would love to hear actually a little bit about your story and something that I find super unique and inspiring in listening to your show. Maddie is when you do episodes, especially with your mom. Oh my God, that's so special. And I find it special because your mom has been sober for many years.

squadcaster-9cf4_2_01-28-2025_170833: 8:06

Yep.

the-sober-butterfly_2_01-28-2025_190833: 8:07

just curious to learn from you. What was that like growing up with a mom who was sober? Who is? It sounds like pretty forthcoming about her decision to be so. And how did that impact if at all your relationship with alcohol?

squadcaster-9cf4_2_01-28-2025_170833: 8:23

Yeah. It hugely impacted it. I know it's so fun having her on my podcast. Those are always such fun episodes. I feel like she comes on like half and of them are with her. But you know what, so yeah, so she's been sober for over 40 years. She got sober at 21. So she was sober long before I was born. She's been sober for my whole life. So that's all I've ever known. But what's interesting is that my parents when they got married, my dad was also sober when they met. And then when I was a kid, he relapsed. And so that's why my parents divorced. And so from the time that I was eight and he went back to drinking, he was pretty absent, like from. from my life and kind of in and out of rehab. And so I had this comparison of, I had a sober mom and I had a dad who was in his addiction. I have two sisters. So me and my mom and my sisters, we formed this group. super tight unit. And it was a super open conversation. Like my mom was super open about her sobriety. She was super open about what was going on with my dad and his drinking. She was also super open about the fact that alcoholism is all over our family. And so it was a really big, like, Thing where she would talk about what the red flags are with drinking and my sisters and I, like all of us, we didn't drink until we were allowed to, like, until she told us we could, I know. So like, I didn't have my first drink until I was 17. Kind of when she like gave me the green light, but definitely under a, like, pay attention to how you feel. Drink slowly, have one notice if you want to have more kind of thing. So it was, I went into it with. Just so much about it. And I think how that impacted me for sure in my drinking, it's interesting as I definitely don't think I would have gotten sober when I did.

the-sober-butterfly_2_01-28-2025_190833: 10:12

Okay. Yeah.

squadcaster-9cf4_2_01-28-2025_170833: 10:13

And I don't think I would have gotten sober that young, if not. For her. And if not for her as someone to like talk to about it, when I found the courage to admit that I was struggling with it, but I think also what's really interesting is that for me, such a big part of what made me decide to get sober was like the. Anxiety and shame that I felt after drinking was so intense and so crippling from the very first time that I got drunk. And I think a big part of that is because I knew so much. Like I, I think I had this intense magnified feeling of like, Oh, I'm doing something wrong. I'm doing something I shouldn't, I should know better kind of thing. So I think it accelerated that part of it for me too.

the-sober-butterfly_2_01-28-2025_190833: 10:55

Wow, that's so profound, especially because we recognize that shame and drinking, they work very well in tandem. It's not to your point. It's like, you know, better. So I should be doing better. And I can resonate with your story. I grew up with alcoholism in my family, in my home. When you see it, it is I'll just be honest and direct. I would. pretty disgusted by it. I was just like, I want to be like that. I'm not going to be like that, But that's like, as you're living it, it's a different experience or it can feel different. Like I'm immune to this. I thought because I knew better, I was actually like, Oh I'm not going to have the same issues because I know that I don't want to be this way. But the reality is. It's progressive, at least for me. Like, it wasn't like, you know, you mentioned before it started off, your drinking started off fun. Well, yeah, it was fun for me as

squadcaster-9cf4_2_01-28-2025_170833: 11:54

That's

the-sober-butterfly_2_01-28-2025_190833: 11:54

it wasn't fun,

squadcaster-9cf4_2_01-28-2025_170833: 11:55

Yeah.

the-sober-butterfly_2_01-28-2025_190833: 11:57

So that's the thing. It's very sneaky. Very insidious and it can grow. And I just remember being in denial. And I think another part too is age, right? Like I, I think I forwent or ignored some of the signs because I recognize them as well, because I'm like, well, this is right of passage and I'm young and this.

squadcaster-9cf4_2_01-28-2025_170833: 12:20

You're like, I'm just doing what you do in your 20s, right?

the-sober-butterfly_2_01-28-2025_190833: 12:23

But yeah, I just think that sometimes, especially if you're, you know, that you're maybe predisposed to certain genetic factors. If, you know, alcoholism runs in your family, you just have to be really cognizant and vigilant about that. And I just don't think that I personally have the same liberties as maybe someone else. I don't think anyone should be binge drinking. And my drinking was never healthy, but knowing that I think makes me now recognize more how I could have maybe been a bit more careful is the point I'm making.

squadcaster-9cf4_2_01-28-2025_170833: 12:56

But it's so hard, like you said, when you're in it. Like, we might say, Start off knowing what you know, but then when you start and you experience how it feels and you don't want to have to stop. So you don't want to admit to yourself that it's a problem, right? It's so scary to admit that.

the-sober-butterfly_2_01-28-2025_190833: 13:13

Exactly. And then your peer group, like, you know, you are who you associate with,

squadcaster-9cf4_2_01-28-2025_170833: 13:18

Yeah.

the-sober-butterfly_2_01-28-2025_190833: 13:18

talk to our friends, like, I was definitely, I think, out of my friend group, someone that took it to the next level, like, I was definitely, like, the wild, crazy one, but also all my friends were right there with me, doing the same things. So it felt like, oh, I have this under control. This feels normal because society has normalized it essentially. But also I recognize that maybe not everyone was doing what I was doing with my friends. Like, I kind of chose people who mirrored my actions and my lifestyle. So it's just interesting to have perspective to look back, but like, I give myself so much grace now.

squadcaster-9cf4_2_01-28-2025_170833: 13:54

Same. Yeah.

the-sober-butterfly_2_01-28-2025_190833: 13:57

I'm not ashamed of it. I'm proud of it. And like, we have this platform now to speak about it so that maybe other people don't have to suffer or go through some of those same. life experiences in that way. Thank you for sharing all of that Maddie. So I would love to hear from you. Was there a particular moment and I don't know how you feel about rock bottom, so it could be hear this a lot. I have reframed it as like a turning point because what is a rock bottom? For me personally, I've had many rock bottoms

squadcaster-9cf4_2_01-28-2025_170833: 14:26

yeah,

the-sober-butterfly_2_01-28-2025_190833: 14:26

or moments where I've been like, I mean, stop doing this. But I'm just want to learn from you. Did you have a turning point or would you know, would you say that you had a rock bottom? Was there a time in your life when you really thought, okay, enough is enough and then got sober? Yeah.

squadcaster-9cf4_2_01-28-2025_170833: 14:46

had an emotional rock bottom like my rock bottom was internal. And it's so interesting because and I know you can relate. You just said you had, you would say you had several rock bottoms. And I think so many of us can look back on our drinking days and be like, That could have been my bottom. That could have been my bottom that could have right. Like things that happened. And I definitely had things that gave me little moments of awareness. Like I had you know, at the end of 2019, I blacked out at my work Christmas party, and that was a real low for me and it pushed me to do dry January for the first time, but I was nowhere ready to actually get sober and carry on with it at that point. But what I think is so interesting is that my, like. I'm done moment came after the most uneventful night of drinking ever. Like I was, had, I had been, I had stumbled upon the sober online movement and I was like starting to hear it talked about in ways that I had never heard it talked about before of, you know, because of, you know, Having grown up with you know, my mom who went to AA and my parents and the way that we talked about it, I always struggled around the question, like, am I an alcoholic and not knowing whether I fit that box or whether and in my opinion, I felt like. Okay. If I'm an alcoholic, I have to get sober. If I'm not an alcoholic, then I keep drinking. Right. And so it made it so hard. And when I heard people talking about it for the first time of like, it exists on a spectrum and all that, I was like, Oh, wait, I was like light bulb moment. And so I was, I had been thinking about it. My anxiety was getting stronger. So much worse. And at this point it was 2020. So I was in lockdown and that was in my mind of permission slip to pretty much drink every day again. And so I was feeling those effects so much more. And so what actually ended up happening was my my, one of my best friends came Came over and we did like a socially distant night of drinks in my backyard. And I was literally with like my best friend and nothing went wrong. Nothing happened, but I got way too drunk as always. And then I remember going inside and I passed out on the couch, TV on lights on makeup on all that, and I woke up in the morning and I had a text from her saying like, I love you so much. Thanks for such a lovely night. Like blah, blah, blah, blah. Yeah. No reason for me to hate myself and feel crippled with anxiety, but I was, and it was just this crystal clear. I cannot stand to feel this way anymore. I can't keep feeling this way. I can't keep living this way. Like I have to be done. And that wasn't my last day one, but that was what I made the decision. And so that's what really sticks out to me as like the moment of clarity for me.

the-sober-butterfly_2_01-28-2025_190833: 17:29

So that planted a seed for you, like that moment of waking up and feeling maybe out of control, even though your friend affirmed, but oh, we had a good time. It's knowing, right? It's like, oh, did I say something? Did I do something mad at me? And yeah, I can relate so much to the anxiety. I want to learn a little bit more about your drinking because I drank it. Large copious amounts. And I, it's interesting. I don't know if like my mission was quote to black out, but my mission to feel something like I wanted to feel the impact of my drinking. Like I wanted to know it was quote working for me. And I'm just curious to learn from you, like what type of drinker were you? Like, were you like, Oh, I'm going to sip on some wine for the evening or were you on a mission to quote blackout?

squadcaster-9cf4_2_01-28-2025_170833: 18:21

I was on a mission to get drunk I don't

the-sober-butterfly_2_01-28-2025_190833: 18:23

Yeah, same.

squadcaster-9cf4_2_01-28-2025_170833: 18:26

blackout because it was so anxiety inducing for me when I did but like I was always on a mission to Get drunk. Like I was never like, let me have a couple of drinks. You know, I was definitely there to drink a lot. And I was a wine drinker. And I feel like when I switched to wine, that was also kind of a turn, like the amount that I could drink. I saw it increasing. Like I remember in my earlier drinking days being like, Oh my God, if I finished a bottle of wine, I'm like fucked. And then by the end of my drinking days, I'm like, I'm done. I had for sure more than two bottles of wine yesterday. Right. So that increasing, but no, I was definitely I was there to drink heavily. Yes.

the-sober-butterfly_2_01-28-2025_190833: 19:08

there's something specific about wine. I was also a wine drinker. I don't know. I think I dismissed the amount, the quantity that I was drinking because there was this level of like sophistication. This is what I would tell myself. Like, I would delude myself into thinking, Oh, I'm entering like my grown and sexy era. Like, this is fine. Like, it's just wine. I'm not drinking a handle of Tito's. But the reality is, it's still, you know, Alcohol. And it's just interesting about the marketing and the way that we're kind of brainwashed into believing that this is considered better than say like a hard liquor.

squadcaster-9cf4_2_01-28-2025_170833: 19:42

I couldn't agree more like in my like school party days, I was like vodka mixed drinks and like coolers and all that. And then I remember switching to when I started my career feeling like, Oh, like feeling like if I had come home at the end of the workday and poured like a vodka drink, that would be a red flag. But coming home at the end of the workday and pouring a glass of wine, you're just a grownup. Having a glass, right? Like it feels different in your head, and it's not, you're still drinking alcohol, but there is this funny like marketing around it that makes you feel like, oh, it's just like a classy. Wine night.

the-sober-butterfly_2_01-28-2025_190833: 20:18

yeah. Until the bottles start mounting. I remember one of my first roommates in New York, she came home, she didn't drink actually. So pretty much the only sober person that I knew and she wasn't fun. So she, she wasn't like a good representative of One day she tried to have like, I swear, I kid you not, I can remember it, like, she came into the living room from the kitchen with like, the bag of recyclables and all I hear is like, clink.

squadcaster-9cf4_2_01-28-2025_170833: 20:47

no.

the-sober-butterfly_2_01-28-2025_190833: 20:48

She goes, hey girl, did you drink all of this, like, this week? Because I just took the recycling out a few days ago and like, it's, there's a lot of bottles here, and it was all wine, and I just remember I was drinking wine at the time to add insult to injury, and I was just like, oh, I had some people over. Nobody came over Maddie. It was all like, I still, to your point, like, didn't think it was a problem because those weren't handles of hard liquor. It's just wine girl. And I'm stressed and I'm in my twenties and I need this. Like, that's what I thought it was so ingrained or interwoven into my day to day routine. Like come home wine, like. That's it. Like wine and maybe I'm going to watch something on TV. Maybe I want to read a book. Maybe I want to talk on the phone, but wine was always the common denominator. And that's the scary part.

squadcaster-9cf4_2_01-28-2025_170833: 21:38

right

the-sober-butterfly_2_01-28-2025_190833: 21:38

the main thing, I

squadcaster-9cf4_2_01-28-2025_170833: 21:41

you're drinking wine while you're doing it and you're pretending like the thing you're doing is the activity while you're having wine But in reality the wine is the activity while you're doing something else. Yes.

the-sober-butterfly_2_01-28-2025_190833: 21:50

love how you framed that. It was all about that. Everything else was secondary. It was like, Supporting character, but yeah, I wanted to drink like that was my main hobby, my main squeeze, my main love and yeah, it feels great to not be tethered or a slave to a substance anymore,

squadcaster-9cf4_2_01-28-2025_170833: 22:08

Yes. I used to hate the question, like, what do you like to do for fun? Because I knew my honest answer was drink, get drunk, but I was like, well, that doesn't sound good to answer.

the-sober-butterfly_2_01-28-2025_190833: 22:19

Yeah, it was a setup. We're like, what did you do this weekend? It's like, what did you do this weekend?

squadcaster-9cf4_2_01-28-2025_170833: 22:24

Right?

the-sober-butterfly_2_01-28-2025_190833: 22:25

Oh, you are. This is what I would tell myself. How cool are you? Can I double like what I really did? Are you going to judge me?

squadcaster-9cf4_2_01-28-2025_170833: 22:30

Yeah.

the-sober-butterfly_2_01-28-2025_190833: 22:36

until I realized that like, I don't like how I feel. And so you mentioned anxiety as being a pain point for you. And then you mentioned like, so you did your first dry January situation after anxiety inducing experience from your work party. Do you? And then you kind of. I think, let me know if I'm wrong here, that was your first attempt at removing alcohol from your life and I know you've mentioned before that you've had several, like, day ones, so can you walk us through, like, what that progression was like from you to it? Starting to get sober curious and recognizing that you wanted to change your relationship with alcohol and it finally like sticking because I feel like you have been made amazing insights. I've seen some content that you've made around just this idea of everything worked in culmination to get you to the place to where you actually ready. So, yeah, tell us a little bit about like what that's like.

squadcaster-9cf4_2_01-28-2025_170833: 23:31

Yeah, so I did that dry January at the start of 2020, and it's really interesting. I'll just say quickly, especially I think this is coming out in February, right? That, that dry January, I actually came away from it being like, okay, this just proves sobriety is not for me. Because I found it. So I know I found it so hard. I remember like the weekend would be approaching and I was like, Oh my God, I have nothing to look forward to. What am I going to do with myself? And so I like counted down. I stayed up till midnight, January 31st to pour a glass of wine at midnight. And I came away being like, yeah, okay. That seals the deal. I that I can't do that. Meanwhile, in retrospect,

the-sober-butterfly_2_01-28-2025_190833: 24:12

But did that also affirm to you like, Oh, I don't have a problem because if I had a problem, I probably couldn't have done 31 days without alcohol. Yeah. Yeah. I'm

squadcaster-9cf4_2_01-28-2025_170833: 24:22

And I think like, it's so funny because in retrospect, now I know that the fact that it was so hard means I did have a problem, but my takeaway was like, yeah, no, that sucked. But so,

the-sober-butterfly_2_01-28-2025_190833: 24:35

good.

squadcaster-9cf4_2_01-28-2025_170833: 24:35

So I did that. And then definitely was like, okay, going back to my wine. But then like a month and a half later, we're in COVID lockdowns and I'm drinking every day again. So, the, for sure the anxiety was the tipping point for me because it was getting so much worse and it didn't matter what happened. I could be drinking with my sisters and in having a night in with my sisters uneventful night and they're like reassuring me you were fine. Nothing happened We had a good night and I couldn't shake the feeling of like it was terrible for me So anyways to get to your question. So yeah, so I had that kind of aha Moment of I need to be done and We were coming up, like we were maybe a week or two away from celebrating my sister's 30th birthday. And I was like, I'm going to do her birthday and the next day will be my first day one. And so that's what I did the next day after her birthday, I started reading Quitlet and I was like doing it and I made it two, two weeks, my first time, two to three weeks. And then. Decided to drink again. It was Thanksgiving and I just like really debated, but I was like, you know what, I'm still figuring it out. Like I kind of just gave myself a free pass, drank again. And then a couple of days later, I kind of had that like screw it mentality of like, I've already what I'm only on day two now, like may as well kind of thing, so drink again, and then I got three weeks under my belt and then something happened that I wanted to celebrate. And I was like, Oh, I'm just going to let myself drink kind of thing. And then that last day one, there were so many takeaways from it. So it was my fourth day one that stuck. So the things that have always really stuck out to me about it is that number one, I remember That weekend I drank on a Saturday and on the Friday I had a sober night where like I was hanging out with my family and they were drinking and I wasn't and I experienced for the first time that like feeling of like a high like a natural high that you get in sobriety when you're in a social situation having fun and I had a really great night and then the next night I drank and woke up feeling Terrible about myself and I remember being like I had such a better night on friday Not only the morning, but the night I enjoyed myself more. I drunk cried all night on saturday like, okay And then that day that sunday my last day one I had plans to go like sit on a patio and have like drinks and I was on my way there and I remember having the thought of like, I am so excited to not drink tonight so that I can wake up tomorrow and not feel this way. Like I don't want to feel this way tomorrow. I can't wait to just stay sober so I can get through to the morning and not be hung over. And whenever I like. Started romanticizing drinking. I would remember that feeling of being so hung over and being like, I can't wait to not drink to get through this kind of thing. And then the thing that really stuck out for me though, about all of that kind of back and forth was I recognized after that last time drinking, I was like, I can see a cycle happening here. I start on my day one, I'm super motivated. I get two or three weeks under my belt and then I decide I really want to drink and I let myself drink. And. I could keep doing that forever. Like I'm gonna have to accept that I'm gonna want to drink again and I'm gonna have to sit through the discomfort of wanting a drink and not drinking through it. And it was kind of this light bulb moment of like realizing that being sober means feeling uncomfortable. Means feeling all of our feelings, including the feeling of wanting a drink. And I just made this kind of like commitment to myself of being like, I'm not going to stick with this if I give myself a free pass or if I want to escape my feelings, like I have to be willing to feel it all. And that was something that like fueled me big time.

the-sober-butterfly_2_01-28-2025_190833: 28:25

That's powerful. You know, it's interesting. I had a similar reckoning where I would hype up the idea of not drinking so much more than or like the how bad it would feel not to drink when I got that craving or when I felt that urge or trigger it actually the actual trigger or craving or urge was never as bad as like when I made it out to be in my mind. Does that make sense?

squadcaster-9cf4_2_01-28-2025_170833: 28:51

yes, that's such a good realization.

the-sober-butterfly_2_01-28-2025_190833: 28:54

It's like almost like when people, I actually love to work out, but like, this is a common anecdote that I hear like, Oh, I don't want to go to the gym. I can't, I like people work themselves up and then like go and they're like, Oh, actually this isn't that bad. And then afterwards I feel so good. So that just would remind me. Cause yeah, I was afraid of so many things about sobriety and I treated it like a social experiment. I actually found it really interested that interesting that you weren't a moderation girl. Like you were like, All in, like, most people are like, I'm gonna try to scale back and just have two, but you were like, Nope, I'm done. And I think that's amazing. But I found that in trying to, I think the idea, the point I'm making here, the idea of forever sobriety was so overwhelming and daunting for me that I had to sort of treat it like a social experiment in the beginning. Take inventory of how it was feeling and collecting that data until I started to feel good, really feel good and then I could commit. And then one day I woke up and I was like, Why would I ever go back to like the chaos and the mess myself? Like, it just makes no sense. Like the proof is in the pudding. Like I'm looking at my life, I feel better. I look better. So I love everything that you shared and I love that you were just yeah, I can't wait to never feel like this again. And I know just having that like realization that I know I'm going to have this feeling again. And. Having the data to support that, right? Like having those first, the multiple day ones led you to realize like, okay, I can't, you know, outsmart myself. Like it's going to happen. So what can I do to anticipate that? And I guess that's my next question for you. Like, how did you feel your feelings? How did you work through that discomfort? How were you able to, when that craving or trigger hit again, just decide like, no, I'm serious this time. Like, I'm really not going to drink.

squadcaster-9cf4_2_01-28-2025_170833: 30:55

I think for me, especially like you pointed out, like having those feelings, back and forth experiences of feeling how it feels to feel good versus like comparing how I would feel after drinking. And I think honestly, like the number one tool for me, whenever I felt that feeling of really wanting a drink was like to just play the tape forward. Like, it's just like for me, because such a big part of my, why, like I wasn't someone who, when I drank. Chaos happened. Typically, like I was someone who like from the outside, if you knew me in my drinking days, you'd be like, she loves to drink. She like loves to drink maybe a little too much, but I, you probably wouldn't be like, she has a pro like a lot of people in my life didn't think I had a problem. Cause like I would get drunk and I would usually be like kind of a happy drunk, whatever. So for me, It was really about like the next day and the aftermath of my drinking. And so whenever I felt like I really wanted to drink, like playing the tape forward would save me because I would just be like, however terrible it feels right now to not drink what I really want to drink will never be as bad as how it would feel tomorrow after drinking. Right. And it's realizing that like you want one part of it. Which is like the relief or whatever it is that you want in that moment, whether it's because you miss it or you feel like it would be fun or you're having a bad day, you want to take the edge off. You want that piece of it, but that piece doesn't come without all the other stuff. Like they're a package deal. Right? So I think just really reminding myself of that truth and. had lots of tools at my disposal for sure. Like I joined an online support group. I had my mom who like, I had calls with her every day and she was like my rock through all of that. I read a ton of Quitlet. I would, you know, talk about how I was feeling. I was very intentional about routines in my life and sobriety. And so I definitely just. Used all the tools that I have but I also was just a big believer in taking on The belief of like I can survive my feelings I can freaking sit through it This is not going to kill me. This is not going to take me down. It will pass and then What happened was, the more I did that, I became so freaking proud of myself that became the feeling I wanted to chase. Like for me, every time I would like maybe get through a hard night, then like in the morning I would wake up and I would be like, I'm so freaking Frickin proud of myself. And then I didn't want to lose that feeling. And not only was I proud of myself for getting sober time under my belt or getting through a hard time, I became proud of like the person I was in sobriety and that compared to years of feeling so ashamed of who I was. Waking up and being like, feeling like the worst fricking version of myself. And then finally feeling like I'm the best version of myself right now. I feel good about myself. Like then. I didn't want to lose that and that really kept me going. Yeah.

the-sober-butterfly_2_01-28-2025_190833: 33:55

Yeah, leaning into the growth and feeling proud, replacing the shame, the anxiety, the With something that you're proud of is so important. I love that reframing and chasing positive thing to chase a natural high, being your authentic self. I absolutely love all of that. And I feel like that's a big takeaway. So if anyone is struggling with how do I stop? Or like, how do I. You know, not given to a craving. It's like, yeah, play the tape for it. That's really powerful. That's something that, you know, insanity is doing the same thing. Expecting different, like you are,

squadcaster-9cf4_2_01-28-2025_170833: 34:38

many times. Yeah.

the-sober-butterfly_2_01-28-2025_190833: 34:40

Yeah. And the thing is like, yeah it's discomfort, right? It's like, Oh, like I don't want to feel uncomfortable, so I'm going to keep doing what I know. But like, that is also the thing that's slowly killing me. And it sounds like, you know, I was chaotic by the way, like I, bad things happen to me. I put myself in bad situations and I would run crazy wild nights, but I'm more often, especially towards the end, had a lot of like, just moments where the next day I was literally like, the anxiety was because I really did something.

squadcaster-9cf4_2_01-28-2025_170833: 35:09

Right. And I'm not saying I never did. I definitely did have a lot of screw ups too, but like generally. Yeah.

the-sober-butterfly_2_01-28-2025_190833: 35:16

yeah, having those moments, I was just like, yeah, this is not sustainable, first of all, but it was just eye opening for me. And, but the point I was going to make is it sounds like people don't recognize Because people will split for me, split camp. Some people were like, yeah, it was time needing, and then other people were like, oh no, I don't think Nadine likes to drink, but like, problem. But the point I'm making is like, the internal chaos as well was overwhelming. And that's the thing, like, it doesn't matter what other people think about your drinking, how do you think about your drinking? Because I think sometimes, no, like, mostly. If not always, you know, and I love before you referenced the spectrum because yeah, you need to continue to delude yourself and pretend that you don't have, quote, a problem because you don't identify as being a full blown alcoholic versus it's a spectrum, babe, like, where are you on that spectrum? And like, I would argue at different points in my life, it would ebb and flow

squadcaster-9cf4_2_01-28-2025_170833: 36:18

Yeah.

the-sober-butterfly_2_01-28-2025_190833: 36:19

It wasn't like every year of my life in my twenties I was drinking every day. It just depended on where I was. And usually my drinking was a direct mirror to my inner world and how I was feeling about myself. Usually.

squadcaster-9cf4_2_01-28-2025_170833: 36:36

Yeah.

the-sober-butterfly_2_01-08-2025_164227: 36:37

And now a quick word from our partners.

the-sober-butterfly_25_12-24-2024_142305: 36:42

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the-sober-butterfly_3_01-28-2025_194953: 38:11

Okay, welcome back to the Sober Butterfly. We've learned so many gems from Maddie. Play the tape forward, have connection, make sure that you feel like you can replace some of those negative experiences, the shame, the anxiety with positive energy. Influences and impact, like, and feeling proud of yourself really does anchor your sobriety. And we all want to chase good feelings, authentic feelings, good highs. Maddie, I would love to hear from you because it's February. Actually, it's January as we record this, but you guys, yeah.

squadcaster-9cf4_3_01-28-2025_174953: 38:43

to be February, a few days away.

the-sober-butterfly_3_01-28-2025_194953: 38:47

First of all, January is like never ending. I just.

squadcaster-9cf4_3_01-28-2025_174953: 38:50

God. I know.

the-sober-butterfly_3_01-28-2025_194953: 38:52

But when you guys listen to this, we've moved, thankfully, we're now in February.

squadcaster-9cf4_3_01-28-2025_174953: 38:56

Thank God.

the-sober-butterfly_3_01-28-2025_194953: 38:57

We're talking all about love and relationship and sex on the podcast. And I want to learn from you. What did your dating life look like? Before sobriety, I know you mentioned you had your year abroad in Australia post breakup, and we already know breakups can be life altering and changing. And so I would love to hear like, how have your relationship dynamics, especially around bromance, changed or shifted, if at all, from sobriety.

squadcaster-9cf4_3_01-28-2025_174953: 39:26

my gosh. They've shifted a lot. I shudder looking at a lot of my dating stories and my drinking days, as I think most of us do. But I think for sure, especially after that big breakup and particularly in my time in Australia, I definitely was looking for a lot of validation in my dating life. And the biggest. Difference really for me is how much my standards shifted after I got sober. Like when I was drinking, I stayed in, I mean, first of all, I gave people the time of day that I never should have given the time of day, but also in like, Relationships. I stayed in relationships so much longer beyond when I knew that it wasn't right for me. And especially the last relationship I had before getting sober, which I got sober like a month after breaking up with this person, but it was just like a super toxic relationship. And I moved in with him knowing it was a super toxic relationship. And I think something that has shifted in sobriety for me is first of all, like definitely just. My standards got so much higher, but also I stopped like wasting time sticking around and things once I knew they weren't right. It's almost like once you get honest with yourself to get sober, you can't not be honest with yourself and like other areas too. So there were just, I feel like I had lots of first dates that were not second dates and I had shorter relationships. Cause it's like, once I know, and I can't lie to myself and I'm out.

the-sober-butterfly_3_01-28-2025_194953: 40:58

I love that. And I resonate with a lot of that as well. There were so many relationships that I clung to that I knew were

squadcaster-9cf4_3_01-28-2025_174953: 41:05

Yep.

the-sober-butterfly_3_01-28-2025_194953: 41:05

Also, ingesting toxic substances made it easier for me

squadcaster-9cf4_3_01-28-2025_174953: 41:09

Right.

the-sober-butterfly_3_01-28-2025_194953: 41:11

and I think You mentioned before that you really learn to be proud of yourself in your sobriety. And you also, it sounds to me, learn that you can do hard things. And you put those two things together. I feel like it leads to a healthier relationship with self and you love Yourself more. So if I'm having higher standards for myself, if I'm able to achieve things I never could do before when I was drinking, it's like, yeah, I want my partner. Or dates to reflect that. And if you don't, then I'm sorry, you got to go. Like, what am I

squadcaster-9cf4_3_01-28-2025_174953: 41:45

percent.

the-sober-butterfly_3_01-28-2025_194953: 41:46

like? I'm not going to do all this work on myself to be with someone who can't, you know, match that energy. It just makes no sense. And I think the biggest piece for me, aside from standards is self love. Like I learned to love myself a new way before I settled for a lot of BS.

squadcaster-9cf4_3_01-28-2025_174953: 42:06

I relate so hard.

the-sober-butterfly_3_01-28-2025_194953: 42:08

that is beautiful. And what were some Because you mentioned that you have had anxiety before. Did you experience any anxiety when it came time to start dating sober?

squadcaster-9cf4_3_01-28-2025_174953: 42:19

Yes. I always say when I got sober, there were two things that I was like, I don't know how I'll ever do this sober. One was flying because I have a fear of flying that I used to get drunk to fly and the other one was dating. And it wasn't. It wasn't just anxiety and nerves about dating, even though absolutely that was there, but it was actually feeling like it wasn't going to be as exciting or as fun. Like I, my drinking days, to me, there was like nothing more romantic. Then like having drinks with a partner. And I think also it's kind of interesting, like my first, like love, I met him right at the same time that I started drinking and we were 17 and like, I like, so when we would drink together is when we would say. Start to be lovey dovey and start to like tell each other how we felt. And so I think for me, love and relationships and drinking were so intertwined and like, it just felt like the way to connect with somebody. And so, yes, I was nervous at the prospect of sober dating, but I also just felt like there would be such this lack of connection has turned out to be the total opposite. I think that when you're connecting with someone, Sober that's when it's actual real connection. But I couldn't fathom that at first

the-sober-butterfly_3_01-28-2025_194953: 43:41

yeah. I'm the same way, but you know what I would, everything you said, but the only caveat is I can recognize when there was not a connection because I have clarity. And before I was having a really hard time discerning if I actually liked someone because alcohol was always in the mix. So it's like, it was in our. inorganic, inauthentic connection because we're both drinking and we're just like, Oh my God, this person's amazing. And we're like, they get it. And it's like, actually, now that I'm not drinking, I can pick up on so many more cues. And Beige red flags that I'm yeah, I'm just not interested and that's okay. It's okay You don't have to like every single person you go out with I think I was just clinging to this idea of what I thought love was supposed to be and It's the one of my favorite quotes is like If you're looking for love, it's like, give yourself, pour into yourself the love that you seek, love that you seek, give to yourself, and I really did learn to do that, and we know in traditional recovery programs like AA, which I'm not a part of AA, but like, I take a lot of the wisdom from That recovery program, but they talk about like not dating for a year I don't like to have like an arbitrary amount of time a length of time, but I did take a break from dating Ironically for over a year because I needed to Do the work on myself like I recognized removing alcohol was a great first step, but it wasn't the last step I have more things to do. Have you Taken a break from date or did you take a break from dating? And if so, did you discover anything in that process?

squadcaster-9cf4_3_01-28-2025_174953: 45:21

Yeah. Okay. I just have to say too to your point before I couldn't agree more about like when you're Drinking you feel feelings that wouldn't be there sober Like there was a guy who I dated for like four months in my drinking days who I even said I was like I only like him when we're drinking like i'm not really into him when we're sober like

the-sober-butterfly_3_01-28-2025_194953: 45:42

All the time. So it's like great.

squadcaster-9cf4_3_01-28-2025_174953: 45:44

Problem solved. Just be drunk the whole time.

the-sober-butterfly_3_01-28-2025_194953: 45:46

Yeah,

squadcaster-9cf4_3_01-28-2025_174953: 45:47

I, I remember feeling so discouraged by the dating process in like my first, you know, couple years or just the time that I was single and sobriety, because was such like, I would go and be like, not into him. Not into him. And the thing is if I was drinking on the day, like you would feel like being drunk with someone or getting a buzz, it makes you feel things that aren't there. Like it makes you feel into somebody that you wouldn't otherwise. And so that is like a blessing in sobriety. Maybe it feels like a curse if you're just like, Oh my God, like no one's, no one feels like it's it, or there's no sparks, but that you're actually there to discover when there are sparks. Actually sparks and they're not coming from the alcohol, right?

the-sober-butterfly_3_01-28-2025_194953: 46:30

absolutely.

squadcaster-9cf4_3_01-28-2025_174953: 46:31

so I totally relate to that, but yeah, so I, okay. I like broke that golden one year rule and

the-sober-butterfly_3_01-28-2025_194953: 46:39

It's not folded.

squadcaster-9cf4_3_01-28-2025_174953: 46:40

I agree. I'm not a, Rules person. When it comes to sobriety, I think everyone's journey is so different and everyone has to do whatever's best for them. But I dated for the first time at like three months sober and dated someone for a few months. And it was one of those situations of like, It's just seeing red flags and then being like, Oh, I'm actually going to exit this. And it going through, like, I think it was more impactful for me going through my first, like breakup sober, almost then like first relationship sober. Cause I realized like, Oh my God, I always drank to get through a breakup. And I realized I moved on from it so much quicker because I did it sober. Like I actually processed all those feelings, but spent probably the first. Two years of my sobriety, kind of like on and off the dating apps. And then at a certain point I was just like, okay, I need a break and I'm going to step back from apps and I'm going to just go all in on myself and focus on myself. And it was around that time that I was starting like the podcasting and starting my community and planning my first sober trip. And I just, I did have this shift of being like, I don't want to focus anymore. I want to focus on becoming like the best version of myself and the happiest version of myself and like, then that will be, that's going to ultimately

the-sober-butterfly_3_01-28-2025_194953: 48:00

attraction.

squadcaster-9cf4_3_01-28-2025_174953: 48:01

Anybody anyway? Yes, exactly. And then. And then I did end up meeting my boyfriend that, that spring after that, so,

the-sober-butterfly_3_01-28-2025_194953: 48:09

Amazing. Can I ask how you guys met?

squadcaster-9cf4_3_01-28-2025_174953: 48:12

yeah, so my first sober trip that I hosted like group trip to Costa Rica he was on it and that's where we met. No,

the-sober-butterfly_3_01-28-2025_194953: 48:27

so he can meet you? He's like my only shot

squadcaster-9cf4_3_01-28-2025_174953: 48:32

no, he wasn't like the first DM he ever sent me was to ask about the trip. Like, he was like, Hey, like I saw your sober trip.

the-sober-butterfly_3_01-28-2025_194953: 48:42

He had a plan, but man had a plan. That's amazing. That is,

squadcaster-9cf4_3_01-28-2025_174953: 48:47

Yeah, it was a really fun way to meet him. And it was like, Oh my God, such an awesome trip and such an awesome group of people. And I stayed in touch with everybody after that trip and him and I stayed in touch. And then we got together like a few months after.

the-sober-butterfly_3_01-28-2025_194953: 49:00

I love that. Okay. So going back to before when we talked about what I found super unique and when I say unique, it's like unique for me because I didn't realize that other people felt this way, which is like sober dating, it can be a little disheartening because you're feeling like you don't, you're not making connections with people and you're like, Oh, this is boring. Or like you start romanticizing maybe alcohol where it was so much easier.

squadcaster-9cf4_3_01-28-2025_174953: 49:26

Yes.

the-sober-butterfly_3_01-28-2025_194953: 49:27

Forge those connections. So I want to learn from you, like, because sometimes I guess I have a hard time personally deciphering or not completing intensity with intimacy. That's something I constantly struggle with. Like I want sparks, I want to feel it. And I'm a hopeless romantic when it comes to that. So I want to know from you, like if you met in like a, Not like a business setting, but like, this is your business. Like you're running a trip, like where Was able to grow with time? Because I think, you know, that's something I need to work on personally. I'm like, I may be need to be friends with someone and then grow into like something romantic. So asking for a friend slash me also for like, what was the experience like when you met him IRL and. How does that connect to what you were talking about before dating in sobriety?

squadcaster-9cf4_3_01-28-2025_174953: 50:21

Yeah.

the-sober-butterfly_3_01-28-2025_194953: 50:22

Yeah

squadcaster-9cf4_3_01-28-2025_174953: 50:23

Let me say I relate so hard with like I felt so discouraged by dating for a while for that exact reason. Like I remember having those moments and saying to my mom like this was just easier when I could drink. Like I'm like not feeling a connection with anybody and like I knew in my mind that the only reason was because it made me feel a connection with people that there was no connection with, but it still can just feel disheartening. Right. But I think really what's happening is like, you're not blind to red flags anymore when you're drinking and your standards are so much higher. And now you're actually there to not waste your time with people who there's no connection with. Right. So I totally agree. Totally have felt that to as for your question about when we met, like, yeah, it was an interesting way to meet because I'm there and I'm like, The host of the trip. So my mind was like, not there at all. Like I was not there with any agenda of meeting anybody and didn't like, think that was going to be a thing or a possibility. And I definitely, like, there were definitely like, I, I liked him, like, you know, and he ended up staying, he and one of the other girls on the trip ended up saying the three of us were there one extra night.

the-sober-butterfly_3_01-28-2025_194953: 51:35

Okay,

squadcaster-9cf4_3_01-28-2025_174953: 51:35

and so then we got more time in like a smaller. Group the three of us and so by the end of the trip Yeah, like I did like him for sure, but I was not I wasn't thinking that way being there if that makes sense because the trip wasn't about that

the-sober-butterfly_3_01-28-2025_194953: 51:50

but you felt like a connection.

squadcaster-9cf4_3_01-28-2025_174953: 51:53

Yeah, I definitely did.

the-sober-butterfly_3_01-28-2025_194953: 51:54

That's beautiful. Okay, that gives us all hope like I felt I had action since then but I just think for anyone because that's a common question I get from people like well, like how do I discern if I'm connecting with people like is this normal to like not feel a sense of oh I like this even attraction like i'm like, oh like i'm Sometimes I feel like I'm nitpicking, I'm like, there's no buffer, so I'm just kind of like watching and observing everything and not even judging, but kind of just like, yeah, this was easier when I was drinking, like, I could forego and forgive a lot more than I can now.

squadcaster-9cf4_3_01-28-2025_174953: 52:30

Okay. Let me say like I felt that too of like there was even a guy who I dated who I met on an app who was like, oh my God, he was so. And he did everything right. And I kept seeing him because I was like, you know what, sometimes it's a slow burn, and this guy deserves a second date, and he deserves a third date, and I will get there, and I'm gonna like him because he, like, checks every box and is such a good, sweet, nice guy, whatever. And it just wasn't there for me.

the-sober-butterfly_3_01-28-2025_194953: 52:59

Reward. Reward.

squadcaster-9cf4_3_01-28-2025_174953: 53:01

Just like from the get go, there just wasn't like attraction or a spark. And I tried to force it because he was just such a nice guy. And I felt that same way of worrying, like what connection would feel like dating sober because I wasn't finding it. But then when I did, it was like unmistakable. Like I knew. I knew that I liked him and like, we're long distance. He lives in Denver. I live in Toronto. So it was even like crossing into more than friendship was like, there were so many question marks around it. Right. Because of the circumstances of that, but it felt worth it because there was a strong connection. So it was unmistakable. So it does exist in sobriety. It does.

the-sober-butterfly_3_01-28-2025_194953: 53:45

I love it. And be honest with us, Maddie, you overcame your fear of flying, because you wanted to go to Denver. Man, you're like,

squadcaster-9cf4_3_01-28-2025_174953: 53:55

I've flown sober a few times already, but yes, I regularly tell him I get on planes lots and I hate flying. Like, that says something.

the-sober-butterfly_3_01-28-2025_194953: 54:06

there. I love that so much. Okay. I kind of want to get into it because you mentioned apps. I'm a millennial girly. I think millennials, we're on the apps. I mean, like, it's really not impossible, but it's hard to meet people IRL, even if you live in a big city like Toronto or New York. So I want to know from you, like, these are questions I've been asked. So dating app, are you putting, well, you're happily in a

squadcaster-9cf4_3_01-28-2025_174953: 54:30

but I was on them. I was on

the-sober-butterfly_3_01-28-2025_194953: 54:32

When you were on them, were you putting visibly in your bio or on whatever the page is called? Were you listing anywhere that you were sober? Cause like there are features you can toggle on and off like, oh, drink or smoke or do drugs or whatever. Were you doing that, making that visible and follow up? Did you have any prompts that indicated that I'm a sober girl?

squadcaster-9cf4_3_01-28-2025_174953: 54:55

Okay. I love this question because I had such an interesting experience with this.

the-sober-butterfly_3_01-28-2025_194953: 55:01

Okay.

squadcaster-9cf4_3_01-28-2025_174953: 55:01

I was on Bumble and hinge, but mostly hinge. And in the beginning, I didn't have it as like a question, like, you know, the prompts on hinge where you say things about yourself, I just had it. And know, I just put no for all of them, but then what I was noticing was I was like, a lot of people aren't either looking at that or seeing it. And so I found myself getting so frustrated by having to have the conversation and people asking me on dates and like, not real, not seeing that I didn't drink. And, you know, the annoying responses you can sometimes get to that. And so I. Finally had this moment of I'm over this. I'm like putting it on so you can't miss it. So what I did was the question was one thing you should know about me is and I put because this was my this was I was in this place where I was like, I don't care if you drink like as long I felt like as long as you drink You are not a problematic drinker. I don't mind if you drink. I don't mind if you drink around me. So what I put as my answer was, I don't drink, but I'll happily cheers your beer with my mocktail

the-sober-butterfly_3_01-28-2025_194953: 56:06

Oh

squadcaster-9cf4_3_01-28-2025_174953: 56:06

Okay, but you know what the craziest thing was? I put that prompt to literally being like, I'm over it. I want to weed out the people who aren't okay with it. I want to make sure they see it. But what I didn't anticipate was that was going to attract the people who either Thought that was cool or who were also taking a break or sober themselves. And the amount of times, like, I just thought it would be there for people to see it and know it. But the amount of times, cause you know, on hinge, you can send like a like, or a message to a specific thing

the-sober-butterfly_3_01-28-2025_194953: 56:35

yeah,

squadcaster-9cf4_3_01-28-2025_174953: 56:36

got so many likes and messages of people being like green flag or like, this is so cool. Let's go on a sober date. Or like me too. I'm doing a dry January. Like I got so. Many responses from that. And I was like, Oh my God, me owning it and putting that out there is actually, it's not only weeding out people who aren't okay with it. It's attracting the people who either don't drink or just like see it as a really freaking cool thing as they should.

the-sober-butterfly_3_01-28-2025_194953: 57:03

I love

squadcaster-9cf4_3_01-28-2025_174953: 57:03

That's my dating app advice.

the-sober-butterfly_3_01-28-2025_194953: 57:06

that is the best advice. We are in alignment. I'm all about visibility, transparency, because, and the framing of that is beautiful. It's not like I don't drink and I hate alcohol. Like that can be scary. It's literally like, I'm celebrating my sobriety. Like, I'm happy to have a mocktail, but like, do you, if you want to have a beer, like, I have people, I've been on dates with people who have gotten drunk knowing that I'm sober, but that's a story for another day, but for the most part,

squadcaster-9cf4_3_01-28-2025_174953: 57:30

flag.

the-sober-butterfly_3_01-28-2025_194953: 57:30

like that, it's like, you are not looking at it from like a negative deficit, you're like, oh, like, this is who I am, and if you're cool with that, I'm cool with you, like, so long as, to your point, it's not a problem, and I think that's so important. Phenomenal. And I thought it was so cute. So you guys listen to Maddie at, if you're on the apps hinge in particular, I'm a hinge girl, put something like that, because I think it also, what it does is it cuts through the extra layer, I think of awkwardness, which is like,

squadcaster-9cf4_3_01-28-2025_174953: 58:00

you mind if I drink?

the-sober-butterfly_3_01-28-2025_194953: 58:02

yeah,

squadcaster-9cf4_3_01-28-2025_174953: 58:02

yeah.

the-sober-butterfly_3_01-28-2025_194953: 58:03

exactly. It's just like very like upfront. Like I don't, to your point, like no one's reading the little, like I read them because I want to know, I want to know what I'm doing.

squadcaster-9cf4_3_01-28-2025_174953: 58:12

Yeah.

the-sober-butterfly_3_01-28-2025_194953: 58:14

care. So it's especially like the frequency levels. It's like never, sometimes, often, always. I'm like, I'm definitely paying attention to that. Because most people at least I know, even when I was in my heyday of drinking, like, I would probably scale back the amount that I drank. It's just like when you go to the doctor and they're like, how many drinks per week do you have? I'm like, Two. I will look you dead in your eye, doc, and I'll be like, two, two, the healthy amount, whatever the recommendation is. So I feel like people who do that too, they usually present their best version of self, as you probably, yes, you're like, oh, I'm a social person, what are you talking about?

squadcaster-9cf4_3_01-28-2025_174953: 58:53

And it was like, you can either say like often or socially or something, and I put socially. And then I remember the guy who I met on Bumble and dated for a while, called me out one time and was like, you should have put frequently. I was like, how dare you? right. But how dare you?

the-sober-butterfly_3_01-28-2025_194953: 59:14

Yeah, so I would say another tip for anyone listening, pay attention to those like, whatever icons, because people usually present the best version of themselves. So I'm like, sometimes smoker, please, you're a stoner, or you smoke cigarettes, regular, like, let's quit playing. And if they put drugs, I'm just not into it. I'm like, the fact that like,

squadcaster-9cf4_3_01-28-2025_174953: 59:34

Same here.

the-sober-butterfly_3_01-28-2025_194953: 59:38

That is crazy to me. So just so fun. So one other quick question about like dates and I would love to learn from you. Were you ever quote disqualified? And I hate the framing of that, but like, this is a question that's been posed. Were you ever disqualified for being sober? Like, has anyone ever been like, not into it? Don't want to date a sober girl. Thanks for

squadcaster-9cf4_3_01-28-2025_174953: 1:00:02

I had this really funny experience one time where it wasn't necessarily that, but it was a guy who I'd matched with and we had a date planned and it was for that weekend and he, we were like messaging back and forth leading up to the date, like a couple of days before. And said, what's your drink of choice? And I said like, Oh, I don't drink, but like, I love a mocktail kind of thing. And then he tries to call me and he's like, call me. I have a question for you. And I was like, I'm out. And I think I texted him. Then I texted him back the next day and was like, Hey, what was your question? And he's like, call me. So I get on the phone with this guy and he, Immediately goes like, so why don't you drink? And like, it like exactly like that in that tone. And he goes like, you know, I don't know if you like. I literally, I think I gave him a really short answer and I was like didn't really love how it made me feel, didn't love being hung over. And then he goes, okay, so like, you didn't like go to rehab or anything. And I literally was like, no, I didn't go to rehab already plotting the fact that I'm blocking this guy after getting off this call.

the-sober-butterfly_3_01-28-2025_194953: 1:01:11

right.

squadcaster-9cf4_3_01-28-2025_174953: 1:01:12

like, no, I didn't go to rehab. And he's like, okay. You know, cause like. I'm not an alcoholic or anything, but like I drink, you know, I'm I like to me and my friends when we socialize, we drink and I'm like, yep, you know, everyone in my life drinks. I'm pretty used to it kind of thing. So then whatever, I kind of rushed off the phone, didn't go out with him, blocked him. So I guess I disqualified myself because of his weird vibes, but I did have that experience,

the-sober-butterfly_3_01-28-2025_194953: 1:01:36

That's great.

squadcaster-9cf4_3_01-28-2025_174953: 1:01:36

I, yeah,

the-sober-butterfly_3_01-28-2025_194953: 1:01:37

No, you saved

squadcaster-9cf4_3_01-28-2025_174953: 1:01:38

rough one.

the-sober-butterfly_3_01-28-2025_194953: 1:01:39

yourself. The

squadcaster-9cf4_3_01-28-2025_174953: 1:01:40

God. A hundred percent.

the-sober-butterfly_3_01-28-2025_194953: 1:01:41

flash took itself out. And you know what's crazy is I know that man wanted you to call him because he wanted to catch you off guard. He could have texted you and been like, Hey, like, just,

squadcaster-9cf4_3_01-28-2025_174953: 1:01:51

hundred percent.

the-sober-butterfly_3_01-28-2025_194953: 1:01:52

but he wanted to, but he literally wanted to be like, Ooh, I'm going to get her. I want to know, I want her to tell me like, like, I want to hear her tone.

squadcaster-9cf4_3_01-28-2025_174953: 1:02:00

Yeah, it was and I was like, Oh my God, you couldn't just like meet me and like suss out in person what you thought the vibe was like it was so weird to you that I didn't drink like

the-sober-butterfly_3_01-28-2025_194953: 1:02:11

No, it

squadcaster-9cf4_3_01-28-2025_174953: 1:02:12

know about you.

the-sober-butterfly_3_01-28-2025_194953: 1:02:14

is so. No, the point is, it is so important to him. Alcohol is so important to him. Like the fact that he's like, Oh, you know, I'm not an alcoholic. That's not a good opener. Like if you have to do a

squadcaster-9cf4_3_01-28-2025_174953: 1:02:28

then not good, but let me say too, just so people don't like get discouraged. If you haven't dipped your toe into the dating scene, like I got so many really nice replies from people who were drinkers themselves. Like the I dated guys who were like, I think that's like so cool. Brave. Someone said that to me or someone said like, that's really inspiring that you did that. And I'm like that coming from someone, you don't really expect a response like that from someone who isn't sober themselves, because usually like only sober people really get how brave it is and everything that goes into it. So I think like. You know getting that response for me was so encouraging because I was like, oh like that's my new standard Like we don't have to settle for anything less than someone who sees it as a really incredible thing about us, right?

the-sober-butterfly_3_01-28-2025_194953: 1:03:13

positive.

squadcaster-9cf4_3_01-28-2025_174953: 1:03:13

people are out there

the-sober-butterfly_3_01-28-2025_194953: 1:03:15

Thank you for saying that because I have just, okay, for all the negative experience that I have in dating, I counter, I probably have better, more, better experiences. But it's interesting, like the memorable ones, like the crazy stories, like this,

squadcaster-9cf4_3_01-28-2025_174953: 1:03:32

ones? Yeah.

the-sober-butterfly_3_01-28-2025_194953: 1:03:33

or like one time a guy, Who pretended, and it was funny because he was kind of like a friend, like a mutual friend. And he was, I knew he was into me and it was like the wee hours of my early sobriety. And we went to Soho House and before Soho House, we went to dinner and we're like, he's supporting my sobriety. Like, Oh, I think it's so great, Nadine, that you don't drink. And he knew me from back in the day. So he knew I like, how I like, how I liked to get down. So he was like, yeah, I'm supporting it. And then literally we go to Soho house and he's like, I'm going to get us drinks. What do you want? And I mentioned Soho house only because I feel like they do a really good job of having a pretty comprehensive mocktail list. This man has lined up shots for us.

squadcaster-9cf4_3_01-28-2025_174953: 1:04:13

he did not.

the-sober-butterfly_3_01-28-2025_194953: 1:04:15

Oh God, I can't make this up. And this is someone that I knew personally, like, like that had some mutual respect for me. So like that, but that's something that stands out to me cause it was early sobriety. And

squadcaster-9cf4_3_01-28-2025_174953: 1:04:25

leave? Like, what did you do? Did you leave? Did you

the-sober-butterfly_3_01-28-2025_194953: 1:04:28

I think I was like really taken aback. And I was just I told, I didn't drink. I was just like, I told you, I was like, I don't, I'm not drinking. Cause I think another part was like, he was partly testing me. Like I said, I was early. I was probably like five or six Weeks into my sobriety. I was in London actually. So like I got sober and then I went on this like crazy long trip. And so I was like. I'm in a new environment. I'm telling you at dinner about how I am so like happy. I'm not drinking. You're pretending to be supportive. And I think he just like had a hard time of like. accepting who I was. I'm trying to get him. That's another thing. I was really angry in my early sobriety and I was like super just sensitive to how people responded. And I was just like, now I can look back and I'm like, he probably just didn't believe me. Like he probably was just like, okay, need me. Cause that's kind of how he was. And like, it was awkward. I do actually remember the bartender looked and was like, Oh, like, I thought, well, what do you want? And so I think he did end up getting me my drink and he took shots and like, he even ordered another drink for him and it was just like, vibe, vibes killed. But thankfully other people were there that night. He was just latched onto me because, but other people were there and I was just you asshole, like, anyway there are a lot of positive experiences and that's a non example, but anyone that doesn't respect your sobriety, I think is that's a deal breaker, right? Like, that's just a,

squadcaster-9cf4_3_01-28-2025_174953: 1:05:54

percent. And you know what? What a gift to have such an immediate thing to weed people out. Like, that's how I view it. I'm like, it is something that like, when you're dating, it's As a drinker, you don't have that like test so early on of like, you know, how someone responds, like by how they respond to the fact that you don't drink. That's like such a great test right off the bat on like whether it's worth continuing.

the-sober-butterfly_3_01-28-2025_194953: 1:06:19

that's the litmus test, right? I like that. It's a great reframe. It's like, all right, I can tell right now, because it's not just alcohol, right? If you don't respect this about me, there are going to be other things that come up

squadcaster-9cf4_3_01-28-2025_174953: 1:06:31

Yeah.

the-sober-butterfly_3_01-28-2025_194953: 1:06:31

take me seriously as a person. And that's problematic for me. It's very problematic.

squadcaster-9cf4_3_01-28-2025_174953: 1:06:37

And it's like, don't just respect it, but also celebrate it. Like literally,

the-sober-butterfly_3_01-28-2025_194953: 1:06:41

Thank you.

squadcaster-9cf4_3_01-28-2025_174953: 1:06:42

deserves to be celebrated.

the-sober-butterfly_3_01-28-2025_194953: 1:06:44

It's absolutely worth celebrating. Okay. Speaking of. I would love to celebrate some of the accomplishments that you've met. You've done because you mentioned before, like when you were describing the archetype of Maddie before sobriety, like you were fearful and you had anxiety and now you described yourself as courageous or brave. And I would just love to learn from you. What are some ways in which you've really stretched yourself or grown in your sobriety? I love that. That's important. Whoa. And

squadcaster-9cf4_3_01-28-2025_174953: 1:07:14

shifting from like being a very anxious, fearful person to feeling like I'm brave doesn't mean that I am not still anxious and fearful. It means that I do things despite being anxious and fearful. So it's not. Yeah, it's not like the absence of any of that. It's that I think genuinely just like getting sober and doing something so scary and so hard that requires being uncomfortable made me so much more willing to be uncomfortable in like other areas of my life too. And so I think that is just something where I have been willing. To stretch myself. And a really great example of that is I counted actually recently, I've done 32 sober flights as someone who like,

the-sober-butterfly_3_01-28-2025_194953: 1:07:57

28 of those were to Denver. I'm joking. Yeah.

squadcaster-9cf4_3_01-28-2025_174953: 1:08:02

somewhere to Denver, like as someone who I used to get drunk to get on a plane and the first time I flew sober, I was crying at takeoff. Like, so like a really intense fear. And it's still I'm not. Fully comfortable. I'm still a nervous flyer, but I've made so much progress there. And I think just, Oh my gosh, so many things like being on having a podcast, being on a podcast, showing up online. I could never dream of doing something like that in my drinking days. Cause I would be way too scared. Like I've, I'm not someone who does like public speaking, but I've like spoken on panels. Like I do things that, you know, not because I'm not scared of them, but I do things because I'm willing to. myself be seen and I'm willing to like show up and do things that are out of my comfort zone. And, you know, another example of that is hosting the sober trips, like being the host and like a bunch of sober people are flying out to a new country that like, I've never been to either. And like, I'm there to kind of bring everybody together. But that's like, to me, the most perfect example of like how the things that are the most out of our comfort zone have like the highest. Reward and end up being the most incredible experience as a hundred percent.

the-sober-butterfly_3_01-28-2025_194953: 1:09:17

I love that so much. I want to learn from you. Do you know why you're afraid of flying? Like, does something happen to you?

squadcaster-9cf4_3_01-28-2025_174953: 1:09:25

You know what? I'm not good This is what I've learned. I'm not good with Things where I feel very out of control. So I'm not good on boats I am a wreck if I'm in the car and it's snowing. I'm not good, which is not great for me because I'm Canadian I'm just not good with Like, yeah, I'm out of control and I get on a plane and it feels unnatural. And I'm, I feel like I could fall to my death at any moment. Like nothing ever happened. It's just always been there for me.

the-sober-butterfly_4_01-28-2025_202320: 1:09:55

I made a connection. I think I made a connection between your your anxiety.

squadcaster-9cf4_4_01-28-2025_182320: 1:10:00

okay.

the-sober-butterfly_4_01-28-2025_202320: 1:10:01

have a society. I think I'm not a doctor. I think you had some anxiety because you weren't in control because when you get drunk, you lose your inhibitions and your ability to fully control everything. Right. So I think the next day when you came fully to your senses, you're like, I hated, I don't even know, even when people are assuring you

squadcaster-9cf4_4_01-28-2025_182320: 1:10:26

Yes.

the-sober-butterfly_4_01-28-2025_202320: 1:10:27

you just didn't like being out of control. But yeah, it's like this duality because it's like you crave. Like, I don't want to like, I'm not a doctor here,

squadcaster-9cf4_4_01-28-2025_182320: 1:10:36

No, but it's true.

the-sober-butterfly_4_01-28-2025_202320: 1:10:38

maybe type A, like organized and like, I myself think I can be a perfectionist. So it's like, sometimes you need to release

squadcaster-9cf4_4_01-28-2025_182320: 1:10:46

Yes.

the-sober-butterfly_4_01-28-2025_202320: 1:10:47

the prison that you put yourself into, which is like the highest of standards. And I have to be this version of

squadcaster-9cf4_4_01-28-2025_182320: 1:10:52

Yes.

the-sober-butterfly_4_01-28-2025_202320: 1:10:53

really heavy to carry. So like, I think a part of me drinking too was also just to be like, Eff it. I just want to, like, relax. I just want to be, like, I just want to, like, let go So do you feel like you resonate with parts of that

squadcaster-9cf4_4_01-28-2025_182320: 1:11:05

All of that? 1, 000 percent I think you nailed it. You absolutely nailed it. Like the anxiety for sure is as someone who struggles to not be in control like I wasn't in control. I couldn't remember what I did. My mind will go worst case scenario, but also it is this funny thing of like, I can look back now and be like, wow, how did I deal with drinking? Knowing I was letting go of control. And yet that's also the thing that takes the edge off of needing to feel like you're in control. So it is, it's this funny thing.

the-sober-butterfly_4_01-28-2025_202320: 1:11:38

like the way that we're such complex beings

squadcaster-9cf4_4_01-28-2025_182320: 1:11:40

I know.

the-sober-butterfly_4_01-28-2025_202320: 1:11:42

It's so cool now

squadcaster-9cf4_4_01-28-2025_182320: 1:11:43

Yeah.

the-sober-butterfly_4_01-28-2025_202320: 1:11:44

once again, gives myself so much grace. Like I learned later in life, like this year actually, or this past year, 24, that I have ADHD. I always joked about having it. I always suspected it, but like getting that official diagnosis. With such a relief because I'm

squadcaster-9cf4_4_01-28-2025_182320: 1:11:59

Yeah.

the-sober-butterfly_4_01-28-2025_202320: 1:12:01

that explains a lot. Like there's a link between drinking out alcohol and being like neurodivergent. And like my, I just felt like I always had a million tabs open. And as someone, like I mentioned, that can be a perfectionist. I just felt like I was never. fully able to optimize my life. Drinking didn't help, but like, I would just freak out because I'm like, I want to always be the best. And I couldn't. And I recognize now, like I was self soothing, self medicating, everything is kind of connected. So

squadcaster-9cf4_4_01-28-2025_182320: 1:12:35

I love that you shared that because isn't it such a gift to be able to like, identify things in sobriety that in our drinking days we would have been drinking to numb or just not been aware of, not had the clarity to work through it. And like I just, for the first time in the last So like got on medication for anxiety, which is something that like, I have just identified or kind of started struggling with more and was like, okay, let me get the tools to work through this. Right. And I think that's something that if I was drinking, I probably wouldn't have identified that was going on in the first place or because drinking gave me anxiety, I would have just blamed it on the alcohol. Right. So we do get to, you know, identify and work through things sober.

the-sober-butterfly_4_01-28-2025_202320: 1:13:19

the alcohol exasperates

squadcaster-9cf4_4_01-28-2025_182320: 1:13:21

Yep.

the-sober-butterfly_4_01-28-2025_202320: 1:13:22

the symptoms

squadcaster-9cf4_4_01-28-2025_182320: 1:13:22

Yep. Yep.

the-sober-butterfly_4_01-28-2025_202320: 1:13:23

connected to anxiety. Or ADHD, which a part of my ADHD was also anxiety I would freak out because I'm like, Oh, What did I do? Like why? Why am I not performing to the best of my abilities? And yeah, everything is connected.

squadcaster-9cf4_4_01-28-2025_182320: 1:13:40

Yeah.

the-sober-butterfly_4_01-28-2025_202320: 1:13:40

sharing that I am just so honored to have you on the show. Maddie, like I've learned so much from you, I would love to open the platform just, well, actually, before I open the platform, I have one final

squadcaster-9cf4_4_01-28-2025_182320: 1:13:51

Yeah.

the-sober-butterfly_4_01-28-2025_202320: 1:13:52

could talk to you all day,

squadcaster-9cf4_4_01-28-2025_182320: 1:13:53

I

the-sober-butterfly_4_01-28-2025_202320: 1:13:54

I know

squadcaster-9cf4_4_01-28-2025_182320: 1:13:54

sitting here being like, this is flown and I feel like, yeah, this, I could talk to you forever.

the-sober-butterfly_4_01-28-2025_202320: 1:14:02

just have one final question for you, is if you could give advice to your younger self, and that can be any younger self, 7 year old Maddie, 15 year old Maddie, 25 year old Maddie from yesterday, but if you could give piece of advice to yourself, what would that be?

squadcaster-9cf4_4_01-28-2025_182320: 1:14:18

Oh my gosh. That's hard. I feel like I get asked like, what advice would you give to someone in a relationship? And sobriety. And that feels so much easier to me than giving advice to myself. But I think for me, and I think this is not just for my past self, this is for my current self, but I'm like my own worst critic still to this day, which is something that I'm definitely working on, but I think for sure, you know, in My past self, my drinking self. So I think just to fricking be kind, to give myself compassion. I don't have to show up perfectly. I'm someone who, when I have struggled, I beat myself up for struggling like I put pressure on myself to be okay And I think just remembering like we're all human It's okay to go through periods where you're not okay, and it's okay to be kind to yourself through that So I think that's to my past self, but also to my current self when I need it now, too

the-sober-butterfly_4_01-28-2025_202320: 1:15:08

I love that. I, and I feel very much the same Think I can be super hard on

squadcaster-9cf4_4_01-28-2025_182320: 1:15:14

Yeah.

the-sober-butterfly_4_01-28-2025_202320: 1:15:15

All that does is add pressure and Shame. And even though I am thankful that I'm, I don't crave alcohol anymore. I do believe in addiction replacement. I think that sometimes that can lead me to overexert myself in other areas,

squadcaster-9cf4_4_01-28-2025_182320: 1:15:31

Same.

the-sober-butterfly_4_01-28-2025_202320: 1:15:32

cool with working out, whether that be physically with work It, or even like with social media. Like I think being a content creator is beautiful, especially in this era. Like field, like talking about sobriety and recovery. But like, that means that I also need to like check in with myself and make sure that I'm, my mental health is good

squadcaster-9cf4_4_01-28-2025_182320: 1:15:50

Yeah.

the-sober-butterfly_4_01-28-2025_202320: 1:15:50

I never feel like a fraud. And

squadcaster-9cf4_4_01-28-2025_182320: 1:15:52

Yep.

the-sober-butterfly_4_01-28-2025_202320: 1:15:52

like I'm out here talking about things I'm not practicing. And Really, I think, important for me to remember, like, you're not perfect, like you're perfectly flawed.

squadcaster-9cf4_4_01-28-2025_182320: 1:16:01

Yes. Yes Yeah

the-sober-butterfly_4_01-28-2025_202320: 1:16:05

And I think that's why I really do connect with your page. Happy is sober because yes, it is about being. Happy or sober, but it's, there is no, like, you can't always be happy, right? So like you always. to the good, the bad, the ugly and meet yourself where you are and then have grace for yourself along this process. Like, yes, it's beautiful. It's so needed. I think everyone can benefit from sobriety. I don't think everyone has to be sober,

squadcaster-9cf4_4_01-28-2025_182320: 1:16:28

I

the-sober-butterfly_4_01-28-2025_202320: 1:16:29

I would argue most people would optimize their lives even more

squadcaster-9cf4_4_01-28-2025_182320: 1:16:33

agree.

the-sober-butterfly_4_01-28-2025_202320: 1:16:34

It's a, you know, you fixed everything.

squadcaster-9cf4_4_01-28-2025_182320: 1:16:36

Yeah, a hundred percent. Yeah, I'm glad you said that because for sure like the name happy is sober doesn't mean you get sober and life's perfect. It means our lives are so much happier than they would be if we were still drinking, but like that just means that our lives improve, but part of Is because we're working on ourselves. We're growing, we're getting through hard times. Like life is always going to be life sober or not. It's always going to have ups and downs, but we're a lot more prepared to work through them if we're sober through them.

the-sober-butterfly_4_01-28-2025_202320: 1:17:08

I love that. And I connect with that. And I highly recommend you're listening at home. If you're not following Maddie please follow at happiest sober. I'm now going to open the platform. Maddie, tell us a little bit more about your work, where we can find you and your podcast. I would love to hear more and just any projects that you're working on.

squadcaster-9cf4_4_01-28-2025_182320: 1:17:30

Oh, thank you. Yeah. Okay. You can find me as you said on Instagram at happiest sober. Also my podcast, happiest sober podcast on all platforms and my sober community, the happiest sober hub. We meet on zoom a few times a week. It's like. Such an incredible community of people there. My mom also hosts some meetings in the community too. And we have we had our first yearly in person meetup last summer. So that will be, there'll be another in person meetup for community members this year as well. I also just started vlogging, which is kind of a fun new thing.

the-sober-butterfly_4_01-28-2025_202320: 1:18:05

YouTube. Keep it up.

squadcaster-9cf4_4_01-28-2025_182320: 1:18:07

fun.

the-sober-butterfly_4_01-28-2025_202320: 1:18:09

It's fun, but it's so much more blogging. So I commend you for that. what do you showcase in your blogs?

squadcaster-9cf4_4_01-28-2025_182320: 1:18:15

Different things. Like, honestly, I approached vlogging as like, I'm just going to treat this as just like a fun new thing. And so I've like, I just blogged, you know, my travel date to Denver a couple of weeks ago. And it's kind of a combination of like, Oh, I'm doing something fun today. Or like, I went on a road trip for a weekend away. So like, come along with me while I do it. Sober kind of thing. And then also some like little coffee chats mixed in there with sober tips. and stuff. So that's just a fun new thing I'm doing, but happy at happiest sober on YouTube as well.

the-sober-butterfly_4_01-28-2025_202320: 1:18:45

I love that. And if you haven't already done this or plans to do it, I think you should do a blog or maybe even an extended video around traveling, airport stuff. So, as someone who has a fear of flying, like talking through that, because I love to fly, but. a girl who's always loved to fly, like, I was a weirdo that would like, love to be in airports. drank. Like, I was still a

squadcaster-9cf4_4_01-28-2025_182320: 1:19:11

Right.

the-sober-butterfly_4_01-28-2025_202320: 1:19:13

Also triggered in the airport because it's like no man's land, like, where are we? What dimension? What

squadcaster-9cf4_4_01-28-2025_182320: 1:19:18

Yep.

the-sober-butterfly_4_01-28-2025_202320: 1:19:19

It's like, you see people drinking at 7am and it's normal. So if you don't already have something in the works, I highly recommend doing that because I think so many people would benefit from hearing that part of your story and seeing what that's like actually live, like you going through the motions. I think that would be so cool.

squadcaster-9cf4_4_01-28-2025_182320: 1:19:35

Yeah, I need to do that. I did do a bit of my travel day here to Denver, but I kind of just like talked through it a bit getting ready and then I didn't end up filming much of the like airport experience. So that is on my list of like, I should do a full one of those for sure.

the-sober-butterfly_4_01-28-2025_202320: 1:19:50

Okay, well, I'll be watching and thank you so much once again for coming on. I love everything that you're doing. Keep talking about sobriety. I think it's so important and I love Happy is Sober, but like the name too. And even though I was talking before, it's not always like hunky dory, we're all happy. I do also think it's really important to show people how beautiful sobriety can be. Like we need that representation. need that visibility because I still think there's a misnomer or misconception

squadcaster-9cf4_4_01-28-2025_182320: 1:20:19

Yeah,

the-sober-butterfly_4_01-28-2025_202320: 1:20:20

is boring and your life is over.

squadcaster-9cf4_4_01-28-2025_182320: 1:20:22

I believed it at first. Yeah.

the-sober-butterfly_4_01-28-2025_202320: 1:20:25

I get DMs all the time, like, Oh my God, thank you so much for like the positive, like the way you refame things, Maddie, that's a gift. Like, I do think

squadcaster-9cf4_4_01-28-2025_182320: 1:20:31

Oh

the-sober-butterfly_4_01-28-2025_202320: 1:20:32

such a positive person and like, keep leaning into that

squadcaster-9cf4_4_01-28-2025_182320: 1:20:35

Thank you

the-sober-butterfly_4_01-28-2025_202320: 1:20:36

know that life begins once you get sober.

squadcaster-9cf4_4_01-28-2025_182320: 1:20:40

Thank you so much for having me like I Loved this conversation so much I really could talk to you forever and like I resonate so much with everything you said and I love everything you do So so much. So keep doing what you're doing, too.

the-sober-butterfly_4_01-28-2025_202320: 1:20:55

thank you. And I'll be on your podcast

squadcaster-9cf4_4_01-28-2025_182320: 1:20:57

Yes.

the-sober-butterfly_4_01-28-2025_202320: 1:20:57

coming up.

squadcaster-9cf4_4_01-28-2025_182320: 1:20:58

Yes. Yes. Yes. I can't wait. I cannot wait.

the-sober-butterfly_4_01-28-2025_202320: 1:21:01

All right. Thank you so much, Maddie.

squadcaster-9cf4_4_01-28-2025_182320: 1:21:03

Thank you