The Sober Butterfly Podcast

Jasmine Flowers on Sowing Seeds of Strength: Leaving a Toxic Marriage, Healing from Childhood Trauma and Blossoming in Sobriety

• Nadine Mulvina

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In this episode of 'The Sober Butterfly,' host Nadine Mulvina interviews Jasmine Flowers, who shares her struggle with alcoholism, unresolved trauma, and an abusive relationship despite outward appearances of a perfect life.

The episode covers serious topics including domestic abuse, sexual trauma, and suicidal ideation. Jasmine’s journey to sobriety began with therapy and treatment, which helped her gain clarity on her toxic marriage and the need to reclaim her life. 

We also discuss:

  • reclaiming self-worth, 
  •  building a supportive community
  •  new life roles, 
  • redefining relationships 
  •  self-care,  
  • the transformative power of staying grounded in one’s sobriety.

Watch the full episode on YouTube --> https://youtu.be/N7hyHIwqhik

Connect with Jasmine

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  • Instagram: @the.soberbutterfly @soberbutterflypodcast
  •  YouTube:@thesoberbutterfly

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the-sober-butterfly_18_03-05-2025_175422:

Hello. Hello my beautiful butterflies and welcome back to The Sober Butterfly. I'm your host, Nadine Mulvina, and. Since March is Women's History Month, I wanted to kick things off with a woman whose story is nothing short of powerful. Today I am truly honored to introduce Jasmine Flowers. This is a woman who embodies resilience, self-discovery, and true transformation. Now. From the outside, it seemed like she had it all. She was married to a professional athlete. She was raising beautiful daughters and living a picture perfect life, but behind closed doors. She was struggling with alcoholism, unresolved trauma, and an abusive relationship. But before we dive in, I want to issue a quick wellness trigger warning. This episode covers serious yet important topics including domestic abuse, sexual trauma, and suicidal ideation. If any of these topics are difficult for you, please take care of yourself as you listen. Through therapy and treatment, Jasmine gained clarity. She realized that not only was alcohol keeping her stuck, but so was the toxic marriage she was in. So ultimately that realization gave her the courage to finally leave, leave her marriage. Rebuild her life and reclaim her sense of self. In this episode, we also get into how Jasmine navigated sobriety. Her healing process and co-parenting post-divorce. We also discuss how trauma from childhood can easily follow you into adulthood, shaping your relationship with others, and also your relationship self. What struck me, I think, the most about our conversation was just how honest and raw Jasmine is. There were moments that gave me chills, moments that made me laugh, and moments that brought tears to my eyes. I related so much to Jasmine's vulnerability and her strength, and I hope her journey inspires you as much as it did me. Be sure to listen to the full episode, and if you want to watch our conversation, the video is also available on YouTube. All right, let's get into it.

Nadine - The Sober Butterfly:

Jasmine, I'm so excited that you're here. Welcome to the Sober Butterfly. How are you?

squadcaster-7i30_2_02-03-2025_191828:

Yes. Thank you. I am so great and really excited to be here too and just like have this conversation with you and I love meeting more like women in recovery and just being in a space where we can really express what the experience is like sometimes past, present, and future. I'm kind of ideas and thoughts, so grateful, glad.

Nadine - The Sober Butterfly:

I'm grateful to have you here and I'm glad that you're here. So before we go deep, because I want to hear all about the nuances and the heart of your story, I would love to open and kind of break the ice with some quick rapid fire questions. Is that cool?

squadcaster-7i30_2_02-03-2025_191828:

yeah.

Nadine - The Sober Butterfly:

Jasmine, if you had to describe yourself in three words, what would they be?

squadcaster-7i30_2_02-03-2025_191828:

Ooh. I would say one of the first words is thoughtful

the-sober-butterfly_3_02-03-2025_191827:

Beautiful,

squadcaster-7i30_2_02-03-2025_191828:

determined. And empathetic.

the-sober-butterfly_3_02-03-2025_191827:

thoughtful, determined, and empathetic. All amazing adjectives and great things to be. I would love to know from you, if you could have dinner with any sober celebrity, who would it be?

squadcaster-7i30_2_02-03-2025_191828:

Oh, man. Okay. I'm not, not gonna tell any lies. I don't know off the top of my head. A lot of sober celebrities, so. Okay.

the-sober-butterfly_3_02-03-2025_191827:

Love. Then just open it up to anyone.

squadcaster-7i30_2_02-03-2025_191828:

Oh, okay. So if we're opening it up to anyone, I would have to, oh, Glennon Doyle. Forget

the-sober-butterfly_3_02-03-2025_191827:

Ooh.

squadcaster-7i30_2_02-03-2025_191828:

do have a Celebr. I don't know if we consider her a celebrity, if she considers herself a celebrity, but thousand percent. Yes, the author, I think that she is just a, oh my, such a raw like exquisite human who lives so richly in her body and in her mind and her spirit. And I have so much respect and admiration for that. Yeah, so she would definitely be my person. I, I'm like famous if she's absolutely famous, but I dunno if she considers herself a celebrity, but definitely her.

the-sober-butterfly_3_02-03-2025_191827:

I think that's an amazing answer. And she wrote Untamed, right?

squadcaster-7i30_2_02-03-2025_191828:

yes, yes,

the-sober-butterfly_3_02-03-2025_191827:

So if you're listening at home, make sure you purchase if you haven't read already, untamed by Glen and Dole.

squadcaster-7i30_2_02-03-2025_191828:

absolutely.

the-sober-butterfly_3_02-03-2025_191827:

answer. And then one more question for you getting to know Jasmine. What's one thing you can do now that drunk you never could?

squadcaster-7i30_2_02-03-2025_191828:

Oh my, the list is quite long, but drunk me could never, ever. Share in a room full of people drunk me would never have, I was such a mute. I was so like, be seen, not heard because I just, I never really wanted, I, I didn't say I never wanted to, I always wanted to take up some sort of space and be, you know, be notable like everybody else wants to be heard and seen in one capacity or another. But I, sober me has so much courage,

the-sober-butterfly_3_02-03-2025_191827:

I love that.

squadcaster-7i30_2_02-03-2025_191828:

So, yeah, drunk me would've never, I wouldn't be doing this,

the-sober-butterfly_3_02-03-2025_191827:

Mm-hmm.

squadcaster-7i30_2_02-03-2025_191828:

you know, so.

the-sober-butterfly_3_02-03-2025_191827:

I can resonate with that. I've always been like someone who overshared, but like not with intention. Like I just sort of said things for the sake of holding space or speaking, but now I'm very thoughtful. am I adding value? Like that's how I see things now. So I, I resonate with that. So thank you for sharing that. And speaking of speaking up, I would love to hear a little bit more about your story. So, tell us more about early days. Like what was life like for you, Jasmine? Even going back to like childhood, I always like to start from the beginning. What influence, if any, did alcohol play in your early upbringing or those early moments of life?

squadcaster-7i30_2_02-03-2025_191828:

Yeah. So I mean, I come from a family of. Alcoholics, right? Not my whole family, but there are direct lineage. My grandfather, my father, and for me at 14 I discovered alcohol. So I had a history of like, my dad was incredibly violent towards my mom. So my mom had a lot of womb trauma. She lived in a lot of anxiety and a lot of fear. And for years that was, you know, my brothers and I, that was our lives. And so life went on. Then I had a stepdad and that just, things kept hitting the fan, right? And when I turned 14 I was like, oh, sex and alcohol make things feel better. Like I used to write, I used to love to write. I mean, I would, I would go outside and I would, I also used to like to break things. I would take coffee mugs. I would break them in this like park area, and I would write poems and I mean like endless riding. And that was my escape before alcohol and. Boys or sex, you know? But then when I discovered at 14, I mean, I was a blackout drinker from the get go. Like,

the-sober-butterfly_3_02-03-2025_191827:

Yeah.

squadcaster-7i30_2_02-03-2025_191828:

never, I, I kind of stayed with that binge drinking habit because, you know, at 14 it wasn't easy to drink daily. So that never occurred. And then as I grew up, think that I equated, I never knew anything about like, programs to help you live in recovery, even though my dad and grandfather and stepdad were alcoholics. I never knew anything about any programs that were offered. So I always thought that like, alcoholics look like them. Alcoholics look like the men alcoholic, looks like the dead beat dad alcohol. And I just did not equate myself to that because I was this young woman and I didn't drink every day. I drank like on the weekends when I would party, which at 20 years old, everybody's doing that,

the-sober-butterfly_3_02-03-2025_191827:

Right.

squadcaster-7i30_2_02-03-2025_191828:

But I was a habitual blackout. I put myself in harm's way many a times and. would say to myself, oh, I'm so, you know, brave and I would like have this thought, but I was just reckless. I didn't care if I lived or died from, think the traumatic things that I experienced there was, you know, domestic violence, there was sexual abuse, there was abandonment. There was a lot happening in my. World as a young human and big feelings. I'm a big feeler, and I think it's one of my biggest gifts and also probably one of my biggest curses because again, feeling everything so deeply all the time means that I also feel fear, rage, anger, disgust, sadness, grief. Like I feel all of these feelings I didn't know what to do with all of them. There was nobody saying like, Hey, you had this experience. It does hurt and it should hurt, and you shouldn't have to feel that. And I had, you know, I remember. I was so angry and mean to my dad when he would call from prison because I wanted him so badly in my life. But I thought if I'm mean to him, this would be how he'll like come around again if I like, make him

the-sober-butterfly_3_02-03-2025_191827:

Right.

squadcaster-7i30_2_02-03-2025_191828:

And so much of my behavior was me trying to find ways to express myself without putting myself in vulnerable positions. So I would get drunk so I could be like, hmm, so I could, so I could have all my feelings and then move through them.

the-sober-butterfly_3_02-03-2025_191827:

Interesting. I can relate to parts of your story. I also, from a young age, was a blackout drinker. I was chasing something. I was deeply sensitive, and I think alcohol provided a means for me to unleash some feelings that I was bearing, essentially.

squadcaster-7i30_2_02-03-2025_191828:

Mm-hmm.

the-sober-butterfly_3_02-03-2025_191827:

But usually when they came out. It was in a destructive way that was detrimental to me and my wellbeing. So. I really wanna commend you for sharing that, and I feel like if anyone at home can resonate with that, that is like the beauty of this. So at what point, you know you mentioned too, because I also can resonate with sex as well as alcohol. Like that combination as being a way to connect or feel like you're connecting with people. So can you give us a little bit more detail around like. in terms of sex or in terms of being able to unlock or unleash something within yourself, like how did that come to life for you?

squadcaster-7i30_2_02-03-2025_191828:

I think that I was deeply insecure, right? So I also had like a lot of body dysmorphia. Again, there was a lot of sexual trauma in my young life, which aside from, you know, living in a neighborhood where people didn't look like me, I just, I, I felt fat all the time. I felt disgusting all the time. So I. Was trying to find ways to like mask these insecurities, but eventually they would meet me at the door anyways'cause I would end up being so drunk that I would be crying and, and showing all of my feelings. But I started using sex as a way to like slow the thoughts down, you know? And like I think when you talk about like the disease of alcoholism, I would slow the thoughts down until they were just like. was nothing there, you know, until I felt nothing. And then the switch would happen and I would black out, and then I felt everything, and I don't usually remember, but the stories I was told after I used sex as a release, it was also like. I don't know, like the body keeps to score like a lot of things being trapped. I

the-sober-butterfly_3_02-03-2025_191827:

Yeah.

squadcaster-7i30_2_02-03-2025_191828:

trying to find a way to get the feeling like I have very visceral responses to things, and I'm very self-aware. And so I now know, like when I'm being heightened, I can feel it, I can sense it, and I can, I now have all these healthy ways to navigate through, like being triggered by this from a past event. Right? But back then, any, any hairpin thing, any nuance would set me off and I didn't know how to cope, so I couldn't wait until I was able to drink my way through it.

the-sober-butterfly_3_02-03-2025_191827:

I see.

squadcaster-7i30_2_02-03-2025_191828:

was able to drink my way through the feelings so I could overreact, so I could, you know, I, should not say that overreacting is not appropriate. I was, I was reacting accordingly.

the-sober-butterfly_3_02-03-2025_191827:

Yeah.

squadcaster-7i30_2_02-03-2025_191828:

release feeling vulnerable because I would be like, oh, I wasn't, I was just upset because I was drunk, you know? Like, I don't

the-sober-butterfly_3_02-03-2025_191827:

Yeah.

squadcaster-7i30_2_02-03-2025_191828:

care, because I had learned long ago that caring or being vulnerable always made me unsafe,

the-sober-butterfly_3_02-03-2025_191827:

Mm.

squadcaster-7i30_2_02-03-2025_191828:

you know? So

the-sober-butterfly_3_02-03-2025_191827:

I'm sorry.

squadcaster-7i30_2_02-03-2025_191828:

use sex and alcohol as a way of like. But literally a physical release too. A part of it was I just needed to feel the physical. I had all this pent up and it was causing me visceral responses and like somatic things. So I just thought, oh, sex will help. You know, I

the-sober-butterfly_3_02-03-2025_191827:

Yeah,

squadcaster-7i30_2_02-03-2025_191828:

it as a literally a mechanism to cope.

the-sober-butterfly_3_02-03-2025_191827:

I understand that. I totally understand, and I'm really sorry to hear about the abuse that you faced or suffered because that can really shape. Our relationships, and not even just to other people, but how we ve ourselves. And it's crazy. I don't wanna objectify you in any way, Jasmine, but like, as I look at you, you are stunning, like absolutely beautiful. It's so interesting how, as someone who is like aesthetically gorgeous, you felt so insecure about yourself and may have felt like you weren't. Maybe like deserving or like worthy of true love or we just use sex as a way to release to your point, release feelings that we pent up. Or for me it was definitely a way of seeking connection that I felt I was missing in my life and I didn't grow up with my father being a constant presence in my life. So I would look for attention from the opposite sex and. Growing up, you know, of course as you develop and you turn into a woman, a woman, even before the age of illegally 18 a, a way in which I felt connection or was looking for connection was through the male gaze. And I've had to do a lot of work in therapy to undo some of those coping mechanisms, to your point, but also just like the way in which I view. My worth and my self-worth not connected to the way a man sees me or what I can do for him, especially in a sexual environment or a situation.

squadcaster-7i30_2_02-03-2025_191828:

Absolutely. I mean, I liked a relationship because I was like, good, now I can always get my physical release. And I thought it was so important to make sure he wanted me in this way. Like that was, that was all I needed for a relationship to work out. Right? And it

the-sober-butterfly_3_02-03-2025_191827:

Yeah.

squadcaster-7i30_2_02-03-2025_191828:

no. And I remember like my high school boyfriend, not to, not to take it too far, but. I would, you know, put myself literally in harm's way. I would get on the back of motorcycles with man I didn't know. And I would go and I would do, I mean, there was other little drops of drugs in my story. And I would go and do some cocaine here and I would do this and I would do that. And then I would call him and I'd be so upset and he'd come get me.

the-sober-butterfly_3_02-03-2025_191827:

Mm-hmm.

squadcaster-7i30_2_02-03-2025_191828:

you know, we'd have sex and he would reprimand me or yell at me and I would just like, oh, I'm getting his time and attention. This is so good. You know, it works out really well and. Again, I was just reckless. I, I don't think, I think up until age 25, I just did not care if I lived or died. It,

the-sober-butterfly_3_02-03-2025_191827:

Wow.

squadcaster-7i30_2_02-03-2025_191828:

it, I don't think I was super conscious, aware, aware of it, but I look back at actions and I look, when I became sober, I look back at like, oh my God. Like it didn't matter to me. I, and I think there was times where I was seeking to escape because I thought if I die, I have power. I can just start over. You know, who knows what

the-sober-butterfly_3_02-03-2025_191827:

Mm.

squadcaster-7i30_2_02-03-2025_191828:

like, but it won't

the-sober-butterfly_3_02-03-2025_191827:

Yeah.

squadcaster-7i30_2_02-03-2025_191828:

life, you know?

the-sober-butterfly_3_02-03-2025_191827:

Yeah, that's. Scary when you have perspective and you recognize, but the beautiful thing is like you're in this place now you have the perspective and you recognize how much you were suffering. It just sounds like, you know, when I think back to early days or like the inner me inner child work, right? Like you wanna go back and hug that person, like they desperately just needed a hug. were you attracted to men who were older than you? is there a connection to like seeking a father type figure? Because you had mentioned like you would call your boyfriend and he would come get you, and it's like, then he would reprimand you. But like, it's still that state of like, oh, this person cares. Like yeah, they're upset with me. But now they're also here for me and like now we have some other connection. Did you ever go for the older guy?

squadcaster-7i30_2_02-03-2025_191828:

All my boyfriends are older than me.

the-sober-butterfly_3_02-03-2025_191827:

Same.

squadcaster-7i30_2_02-03-2025_191828:

again, I just, I don't even, I guess I didn't even realize like that was. Back then, I didn't realize it was rooted in that, but I always, they were older than me. Like even my ex-husband's like a couple years older than me, and I was like, when I met him I was like, a little too young, you know, I'm not mature enough, which it did prove to be that,

the-sober-butterfly_3_02-03-2025_191827:

Yeah.

squadcaster-7i30_2_02-03-2025_191828:

I was like, I, I just, I looked for that and I think, you know, when I go back and look at my high school boyfriend, like thank goodness for him because. When we became young adults, I was able to say to him like, I'm so sorry. I, I tried to make you my dad. Like, I made, you have to like, take care of me. And I didn't sometimes, like, I had no business in these situations, but obviously again, I was sick and I wasn't healthy. So he understood. And like, I haven't talked to him in years, but at the time I was able to articulate him. Like to him, I'm, I apologize for causing your nervous system such distress all the time, you know?

the-sober-butterfly_3_02-03-2025_191827:

Right, right. Yeah, I, I can relate to that so much. I'm just like thinking, even to this day, I, I tend to go for older men, and it's something that I. I'm aware of, whereas before, I don't think I was making that connection either. So. Interesting. You recognized from those early years until 25, you. Had pretty much little care about like your longevity, your, like, your wellbeing, essentially. Did something happen around that timeframe to where you shifted or was there a turning point in your story to where you started to value life like this is a sacred thing that I should hold dear to myself and live accordingly?

squadcaster-7i30_2_02-03-2025_191828:

Well, I had my first daughter, my just sweet little tiny human

the-sober-butterfly_3_02-03-2025_191827:

Oh my God.

squadcaster-7i30_2_02-03-2025_191828:

I, I really truly, and this just came over me like a few months ago. I did not think I was gonna live past 25. Like, I just,

the-sober-butterfly_3_02-03-2025_191827:

Mm.

squadcaster-7i30_2_02-03-2025_191828:

was just like, you're not girl. It's all, it's all good. Just live out these glory years, right.

the-sober-butterfly_3_02-03-2025_191827:

Right.

squadcaster-7i30_2_02-03-2025_191828:

I re I just a few months ago remembered like, oh my God, I was pregnant with my first daughter at 25. Like I was meant to, you know, I believe keep going, you know, and,

the-sober-butterfly_3_02-03-2025_191827:

Yeah.

squadcaster-7i30_2_02-03-2025_191828:

my life. And I didn't get sober then, right? But I, I thought motherhood would make me better. I thought it would, thought it would automatically thrust me into feeling better. Now, did it give me purpose to live? So I no longer like, felt this pool that, I mean, I felt like this very strong pool to. To eventually one day like die. I didn't feel that as strong. It was still there and we can get to that later, but I didn't feel it as strong. So I felt like, oh, I have a reason to wake up in the morning. I have somebody to take care of. I have somebody to give all of this love and empathy and this like natural nurture that I am, I now have somebody like this and in my little world, you know, and I had her dad at the time and I thought I had romanticized our life completely, you know, and, and it wasn't that I was in an abusive. Marriage. But I didn't see it like that at the time, you know? But definitely having my first daughter and then 16 months later having our second daughter,

the-sober-butterfly_3_02-03-2025_191827:

Oh my God.

squadcaster-7i30_2_02-03-2025_191828:

everything to me, you know, everything. And I remember, when I did get sober, I remember my therapist said, you know what an incredible burden to put on your daughters to be your happiness, because that's it. I was not happy in any other circumstance unless something was to do with them, you know? And even then, I still wasn't feeling happy or fulfilled, and I was like angry. Like all I ever wanted was to be a mom. Like since I was a little girl walking around with little baby dolls everywhere, you know? ever wanted was to be a mom. And now I'm a mom and I'm not jumping for joy every day. You know? Why am I still miserable up here and in here? What's wrong with me? And I still did not directly equate it to, you are an alcoholic and you have a soul sickness and you've been suffering, you know, maybe for lifetimes, who knows? But this is, this is you know.

the-sober-butterfly_3_02-03-2025_191827:

I got chills when you said that. Your therapist mentioned that what a burden to put on your daughters, but like also the pressure that you put on yourself, right? Like this, if this is my life's calling, this is my purpose. Why don't I feel fulfilled? Why don't I feel like this is enough? And I want to get to like how you can get to that place of feeling.

squadcaster-7i30_2_02-03-2025_191828:

Yeah.

the-sober-butterfly_3_02-03-2025_191827:

Like it is enough, but it's not necessarily connected to an outside. Entity. Right. That's what I believe. At least I'm not a mom, but like I, I can imagine the pressure you must have put on yourself at that time as being a young mother in your mid twenties. Like, oh, this is everything I've wanted. The happy nuclear family. You romanticized it. I, I would love to touch on, you know, 25 to like 27. You're a new mom with two kids, under two years old. And you mentioned that your husband was also not. The husband that you maybe signed up for or wanted to be with? What, like what role did substances play at this time? So, was your husband also mirroring some of your drinking patterns or using patterns? And how did, his abuse manifest in the relationship at this time?

squadcaster-7i30_2_02-03-2025_191828:

so to his, I don't wanna say defense, but to help understand him for a pocket in this scenario. is a product of an alcoholic, right, of one parent. And I will say that, and you know that is. I'm allowed to say it. It's the facts. And so I think that there were moments where he was giving me quote grace, or that's what I was interpreting it as.

the-sober-butterfly_3_02-03-2025_191827:

Okay.

squadcaster-7i30_2_02-03-2025_191828:

realistically, he was just building armor to like, you know, to take against me. And because again, my drinking was the same. So my ex-husband was an athlete, so we would go to a lot of events and we were always with a lot of people. And at the time, you know. Again, my, my serious low self-esteem. So at face value, you look at me and you're like, oh, she must feel great about herself. Well,

the-sober-butterfly_3_02-03-2025_191827:

Right.

squadcaster-7i30_2_02-03-2025_191828:

everything else in here and in here, again, sick and dark and just not happy. so we would go to these events and I would be the person that was like, oh, does everybody wanna drink? Let's get a glass of wine. And, you know, a lot of walking and mingling and talking. And because I didn't feel like I was at the same value level of these people, you know, based on education or based on professionalism or based on, you know, relationships. was like, okay, I'm gonna drink a little more right now.'cause

the-sober-butterfly_3_02-03-2025_191827:

Yeah.

squadcaster-7i30_2_02-03-2025_191828:

I, like, I couldn't be in my skin and I felt like everybody could see me naked and, and see my, see my literal scars. See my metaphorical scars. It's like they could see me and they could just shame me every, every step I was taking, which was me in my mind, but I didn't know it at the time. So I always ended up Intoxicated at events, I would end up being blacked out. Like I was the girl that would like sneak a bottle of wine like in the car so I could drink it. Or like I would do four or five more shots right before we left

the-sober-butterfly_3_02-03-2025_191827:

Yep.

squadcaster-7i30_2_02-03-2025_191828:

like get, make sure the buzz was going and then I'd end up blacked out. It was, I mean, I reflect now. I have so many girlfriends throughout my ex-husband's time in the league that are like, we, I don't ever remember you being drunk. And I'm like. What the fuck? I'm like, that night, him and I definitely fought, I was definitely blacked out,

the-sober-butterfly_3_02-03-2025_191827:

Yeah.

squadcaster-7i30_2_02-03-2025_191828:

I would go home and do five more shots. You

the-sober-butterfly_3_02-03-2025_191827:

Yeah.

squadcaster-7i30_2_02-03-2025_191828:

but I was always the girl who was like somebody sipping their wine and being like, is she gonna ever finish so we can mosey over back over to the bar? You know? Or like at the restaurant, I'd be like, with my hype friends, I'd be like, you wanna do a couple shots for dinner? Like

the-sober-butterfly_3_02-03-2025_191827:

Yeah.

squadcaster-7i30_2_02-03-2025_191828:

having a regular dinner. Like there was no reason for it. But I, again. My super discomfort. I was like, say to them I'm wicked uncomfortable because I can't be vulnerable. So I'm, I can't show that I feel less than they are,

the-sober-butterfly_3_02-03-2025_191827:

Yeah.

squadcaster-7i30_2_02-03-2025_191828:

I need to just drink my way into, I don't even know that I thought I was gonna drink my way into being social. I just thought I was gonna drink my way into quieting my mind,

the-sober-butterfly_3_02-03-2025_191827:

Got you.

squadcaster-7i30_2_02-03-2025_191828:

because

the-sober-butterfly_3_02-03-2025_191827:

So you were. You were overcompensating for your perceived lack of like you feeling less than in these social circles, I always refer to alcohol as a social lubricant, right? It just loosens you up and then you're able to. Or feel as though you're more equipped to socialize or maybe sound more intellectual, and like we are sometimes our worst, our own worst enemy. And we tell ourselves these lies that other people can't detect. Until your point, people are probably looking at you like, wow, Jasmine has it all together. She has, you know, her man and her kids and she looks great and she's, you know, social person. And no one's picking up on these very internal but very loud. Conversations or discourse that you're having with yourself or within yourself, which can be really, really powerful. Were there ever any instances where your husband blatantly or directly said to you, I think that you have a problem with alcohol?

squadcaster-7i30_2_02-03-2025_191828:

No, no,

the-sober-butterfly_3_02-03-2025_191827:

No.

squadcaster-7i30_2_02-03-2025_191828:

the very end, which is when I, there was an incident that occurred. It was, it was N-F-L-P-A, which is like the players association for the NFL. We were, we were in Miami. We'd gone to this thing a dozen times, right? Or five times. But this particular time got blacked out drunk. We got into an argument because I was dealing with somebody who was being dishonest as far as like cheating, being dishonest, financially, like I didn't have a job. I was, at this point, years of like no income. I was moving state to state with him in, in the league with our two children. And so there was a lot of gaslighting and. I already had insecurities again around my intellectual capabilities, and so I was starting to think I was going crazy. Like I was like, oh my God, I'm losing my mind. Like, and the last incident happened March. Of 2020, I was blacked out, intoxicated. We got into a big argument. My cousin, who's like a sister to me, that's my girl. She's so, she's so chill and like, so non-confrontational. And apparently she had tried to stop me from of my biggest things that I would do when I was blacked out drunk. As I'm leaving, I'm walking, I'm driving, I'm, I'm, I'm running, I'm doing, I'm getting out, I'm doing

the-sober-butterfly_3_02-03-2025_191827:

Yeah. Yeah.

squadcaster-7i30_2_02-03-2025_191828:

containing me. Right? And so that was always my thing. And so. My ex-husband could stronghold, he could minimize that from happening, but not my cousin. Apparently I pushed her I don't remember, but the next day, my mom, my best friend and my cousin were all, they all sat me down and they were like, listen, first off you pushed Taylor. Like, and I was devastated by that.'cause again, she's, she's. She's just incredibly gentle like her. She would never, ever, there's no ever a justification. And I was repeatedly saying I was gonna kill myself. I was like, I know even when I'm sober, that that is gonna be how I'm gonna die. You know, I had tried when I was nine, when I was 14, and a month before I met my ex-husband, I had attempted suicide. So I, it scared them and it scared me because I was like, oh. don't realize how loud those thoughts are when I'm sober. Right.'cause they're in here and

the-sober-butterfly_3_02-03-2025_191827:

Yeah.

squadcaster-7i30_2_02-03-2025_191828:

But I, I've been hearing them since I was a little girl, so it wasn't like I knew it. It is hard to explain. It's like screaming underwater. That's what they must have sounded like in here. But every time I might get drunk, I. would bring up all the traumas of my past and I would cry, and then my ex would, maybe he would cheat on me, or maybe he would lie to me and not pay this bill, or maybe he would not do this or do that. And because I behaved like that last Saturday, I had been drunk and calling him a liar or a coward, he would then, him and I would both avoid. the next day. So I

the-sober-butterfly_3_02-03-2025_191827:

I see.

squadcaster-7i30_2_02-03-2025_191828:

what I had done. And it was like, I felt so guilty for getting drunk on Saturday, even though I said I wasn't gonna drink for 30 days. And then here I am two weekends later, getting drunk and, you know, horrible. So I would have sex with him, like sex would make it better.

the-sober-butterfly_3_02-03-2025_191827:

Yep.

squadcaster-7i30_2_02-03-2025_191828:

then I would, I I, I felt like it didn't gimme the right to say to him, Hey, like, you're cheating on me, and hey, you're lying to me and hey, you're calling me stupid. And hey, you're calling me the B word and hey, you're yelling at me a lot. and I know I have problems and like. But you're like really mean to me. But the last time was March of 2020 and it hurt my heart so bad. It scared me to know they were like, you, you keep saying even when you're sober, you know that that's how you're gonna leave the earth. And I'm like, I don't remember saying that, but I could see it'cause I, my histor, my history of attempting couldn't, when I didn't think I could survive what I was experiencing or what I was feeling inside.

the-sober-butterfly_3_02-03-2025_191827:

I'm sorry to hear that. Jasmine, it makes me sad to know that you were in so much pain and to your point, like the subconscious brain, whether you recognize it or not, and you're sober mindset, like something inside of you like. Screaming and whether you were trying to subdue it or you know, trying to quiet or quell that noise with substances or dismiss it, it, it still was something inside of you that needed to be addressed head on. And I can only imagine how difficult it was to hear your family. The people that love you congregate around you trying to pour into you and saying, Hey, like you, you pushed. Taylor and you said these things and like we are so concerned and I think that's something jarring too, when you black out and you can't remember, but like, you know, there's some truth there. Like, you know, that like you trust these people, so like them reporting it back to you like, wait, wait, no, I didn't mean it because like, I used to hate when people referenced, you know, the old adage, oh, drunken words or sober thoughts, and I'd be like, no, no, no. But there, but some, mostly I would say, yeah, there was something inside of me that. What that was true for. And it's like the reckoning, like trying to combine, there's something inside of me that I can't quite get out, but also like in my sober mind, I've been so good at like dismissing that. So like when those two worlds collide or when those two parts of you come together, it's like really hard to confront and deal with. So of course I want to hear how you moved forward from that experience in March, 2020. But one quick note that I wanna say. About your ex. Obviously I don't know this man, but girl, I can resonate so hard with like someone's doing you wrong and because you are on a substance, like I would get drunk or blackout, and I also dabbled with other substances, so it would be like. I would be such a fire like ball or just do something so egregious that like, even though the other person wronged me first, now I'm in apology mode in my sober state and I can't even tackle or address all of the wrongdoings that were done to me because I overreact or not overreacted to your point earlier.

squadcaster-7i30_2_02-03-2025_191828:

mean.

the-sober-butterfly_3_02-03-2025_191827:

But I responded in a way that was so. Like, so I, I can't even find the word jasmine. It's like, yes, so unhealthy that, that's a good way to frame it so unhealthy that like, I feel shame now I can't even get to the nitty gritty or like get to the heart of what caused me to even go off the deep end to begin with. And so I, I can resonate and I think it's a form of emotional manipulation and people. I think specific to my past with relationships, I think they knew that and it was a way to like mitigate the situation from addressing what needed to be addressed in the first place. Because, you know, now if we wanna talk, it's, we're gonna start with you and I don't wanna start with. So it's like, ah, we're gonna deflect him. We're both gonna pretend that this never happened. So I, I just wanna say I resonate with that so much. And it's a really toxic cycle that you can find yourself and it's like not to blame the other person, like, you're the reason I drink in the first place because I'm worried about these things. But it's a form of gaslighting. It feels like, like now I'm like stuck and I feel like I can't ever get out when I need to in a healthy way, to your point. But yeah, take us back to March, 2020.

the-sober-butterfly_5_03-05-2025_172219:

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the-sober-butterfly_4_02-03-2025_195000:

Take us back to March, 2020 after your family's telling you that you had these really dark thoughts that came to light, what was that like for you?

squadcaster-7i30_3_02-03-2025_195000:

Took my cousin to dinner that same night and I was like apologizing. But for me, I heard it, to your point about blacking out. I just, I don't know. I, I, it was likely pride, ego, and fear, but I, I just, I heard it and I was very apologetic for, I was so focused on the fact that I pushed my cousin. I was like, let's, who cares about what? I said, I'm not gonna do that. I'm a mom,

the-sober-butterfly_4_02-03-2025_195000:

Yeah.

squadcaster-7i30_3_02-03-2025_195000:

I was like, I'm not doing, I'm a mom. Mom's don't do that. Like, in my

the-sober-butterfly_4_02-03-2025_195000:

Yeah. Yeah.

squadcaster-7i30_3_02-03-2025_195000:

never leave my daughters. But like, just was trying to, so just avoid y'all just, who cares that I said that we're moving on? You know, I didn't say that to them, but that I so desperately wanted them to focus on the fact that I pushed Taylor and like that I was, that I got in a

the-sober-butterfly_4_02-03-2025_195000:

Yeah.

squadcaster-7i30_3_02-03-2025_195000:

and. You know that our baby was crying and I was still yelling and like, I was like, everybody, please just ignore that. I said I was gonna kill myself. I'm obviously not, you know, but. Deep down, I was afraid it was the first moment of like, oh my God, I thought I was doing a good job. I thought I was doing a good job of these voices. I thought they were getting smaller. I thought the soundbite was getting less like deafening. I thought I was getting healthier because I was married and I had two kids and you know, we had what I thought was a good financial standing and you know, I had some friends and I had started volunteering for this domestic violence shelter, which there are layers. Before March, 2020, like mildly, just before that, I was always being pulled to get sober. Right? Like, I think when you get sober, that's something, something calls you there. But I, I might have been calling me for a long

the-sober-butterfly_4_02-03-2025_195000:

Yeah.

squadcaster-7i30_3_02-03-2025_195000:

and my ex did say to me one time, like, you always say you're gonna go to therapy or, you know, all you do is cry about all this stuff that's happened to you when you were younger. Every time you get drunk and you know, you always say you're gonna go to therapy. And finally I was like, all right, he has a point. say I'm gonna go to therapy and then I don't. So I got a therapist and thank goodness for Polly. I got a therapist. She's not my therapist anymore, but at the time I started working with her. And then I ended up going into like hypnosis therapy. Like, so I had two the talk therapists and hyp hypno hypnosis therapy, and my primary therapist that I was seeing at that time, were also going into couples therapy. I. With, with the team therapist, which was a horrible idea, but I was going with it. because at this point, I mean, the name calling and the yelling was getting so bad, and I was like, because I was starting to challenge more because after March, 2020, I was like, all right, slow down. So I was like, oh, 30 days, no drinking, you know, whoop boop. And then I would casually a little bit like, and then maybe I would get blacked out, but I would like just have a lot of sex and not be too crazy, you know, like, so it was fine. And. I started going into therapy, I started telling, I, I wasn't telling anybody what was actually going on, like on the outside. Everything was per, everything was what I wanted it to be. I, I was the Disney story. It was perfect. You know, I was always a damn zone in distress. I was my, my greatest show. I was, I could always find myself somewhere in distress waiting on Amanda to come on. And my ex was that for me, he was the ultimate, like I had. Poured all my traumas into him and he was like, I love you anyways. So I thought, right. And I will say that too, to, I'm never placing my alcohol, my alcoholism on anybody else. When I, I mean, I remember when I filed for divorce, I told Sam like, you not create this, this sickness in me, this darkness. But dark does not seek out light, dark, seek out dark. So naturally had to be darker than the one what I'm suffering through and. You just fed the beast and you knew you were feeding the beast and you said, checkmate, every time I feed the beast, I get to want, I get to do what I wanna do. I get to go and lie and cheat and steal and do whatever, you know. March of 2020 was the, okay, maybe you should get a therapist. Then my therapist was like, Hey, maybe we should explore a treatment center. And I was like, that's cute. I'm not leaving my daughters for any period of time ever again. And she is

the-sober-butterfly_4_02-03-2025_195000:

Hmm.

squadcaster-7i30_3_02-03-2025_195000:

Maybe a treatment center that's really focused on like trauma and like healing and like you're in her child and she's like, you need to go somewhere. And she, she had yet to say to me, you're an alcoholic. She did not even. I didn't even come across her like verbiage and I was like, okay, place that deals with trauma. Like maybe, and that it took me all the way until July to actually go and I had done months of like around this couple places because it was also during Covid. So there was a lot of fear for me and general leaving my daughters, you know,

the-sober-butterfly_4_02-03-2025_195000:

Right.

squadcaster-7i30_3_02-03-2025_195000:

but it was what made me, okay, I need to go to treatment. And having my therapist who like, Jasmine, you need treatment. And I. I vividly remember one of the greatest gifts I got early sobriety, early, you know, leaving an abusive marriage early, like one aiding my life. I was desperately seeking clarity. I mean, I was so afraid I was losing my mind because I swear when you're with somebody and it's hard to, it sometimes can be hard for people who are un looking just the same way. People who are not in recovery to understand you can't stop drinking, how you can't stop drugging, how you can't leave an abusive relationship. But I got to the point where. I couldn't, if you told me that, that's a, if you told me that wasn't a butterfly and I'm looking right at that butterfly behind you, but at this point now you're screaming at

the-sober-butterfly_4_02-03-2025_195000:

Mm-hmm.

squadcaster-7i30_3_02-03-2025_195000:

you're telling me it's not a butterfly, and maybe you throw in some like poor adjectives about me the time we're done, I'm either like, you know what? It's not a butterfly. I don't care. I'm too exhausted to care. Or I'm like, oh my God, I don't know if it's a butterfly, is it? I'm not sure. That was the point I was in in my relationship. I was losing none of my thoughts. Felt like I made any sense ever. So then I eventually, like before I went to treatment, I basically became a mute. I didn't say much. I didn't do much, I didn't have much of an opinion. I just starting to really become a shell of myself. And the shell that was inside of me very hollow was starting to come out. And I don't know if I'm going too far ahead, but I remember when I, when I shared this with sometimes clients or sometimes other, other women, I remember very vividly. mom was coming to Florida to visit and our daughters were napping. My ex was at practice and our oldest came down. I had like a bowl of salsa. It was a beautiful, like, sunny day. I had a bowl of salsa on the couch and she didn't take a nap, so I was like, whatever, just get up, you know? I'm already frustrated as a mom. You're like, you need a nap so I can finish my book. And she came down and she like jumped up onto the couch and I kept telling myself, move the salsa. Like silly thing, move, just move the sauce. And I was like, no, she's supposed to be sleeping again. Super juvenile. And she, this whole bowl of sauce spills onto our carpet. And I remember looking at her and then looking at the, this very like small situation, but I felt nothing I looked at my child. And I wasn't angry. I wasn't sad. I I, I was like looking right through her. She might as well have not even been standing there. I was just so like,

the-sober-butterfly_4_02-03-2025_195000:

Mm-hmm.

squadcaster-7i30_3_02-03-2025_195000:

And we went to pick up my mom from the airport and my daughters and I and my mom got in and I was like, mom, my heart like physically hurts and I don't know what to do about it. Like, I'm scared it hurts. The hurts so bad and I don't, I'm having physical pains and I don't know how to make it stop. And she had already known a couple things that were going on'cause she had now called a couple phone calls of like. He'd be screaming at me. I'm telling him, you know, you need to leave for now because we need to figure this out. The kids and the kids are here was getting worse because I think I started to get into fight, fight or freeze mode. And I was like, all right, well, I wasn't thinking if I'm leaving him, but I was thinking, okay, if I have to fight to stay alive, like some sort of like thing in me needs to stay alive, then I gotta start like speaking up. I gotta start questioning things. I gotta start challenging these stories he's telling me. Then when I decided, okay, I'm gonna go to treatment, it was. wedding anniversary before, and we had wine from like Spain or something, and I was like, oh, well, too bad I'll never drink that wine. He was like, you know, not? And I was like, well,'cause remember I'm trying to not drink for 30 days before I leave for treatment. And he is like, well, you could just have a little. And I remember thinking to myself, somebody that loves me

the-sober-butterfly_4_02-03-2025_195000:

Mm.

squadcaster-7i30_3_02-03-2025_195000:

would see. It wouldn't be hard to see, like the amount of on in my brain because I don't wanna drink it, but I wanna drink it. Like, I don't wanna drink it, but

the-sober-butterfly_4_02-03-2025_195000:

Yeah.

squadcaster-7i30_3_02-03-2025_195000:

it. And it's like, I'm, I am suffering so deeply in this question, and I just needed some support, you know? And then there was things that happened after treatment, but I was dying for clarity because I thought I'm losing my mind. Like I'm, I'm, I'm going to literally have nervous breakdown. And then just like a week before treatment, my brother came to visit and I, I don't think I've ever experienced, don't know if there's a difference of like physical depression in my life that I can remember. I'm sure like in my drunken days there were moments, but I remember I physically felt like I weighed bricks and I like was laying in the bed. I could not get up. I. two, my brother was like, you're acting acting like mom, get up. Like go downstairs, do something with your day. And so I got up, I attempted to make my daughter's lunch for school, and I was like, I can't. And I just got

the-sober-butterfly_4_02-03-2025_195000:

Yep.

squadcaster-7i30_3_02-03-2025_195000:

and I, it that terrified me. And I was like, all right, I have to, I have to get signed up for treatment. I have to do it. And it still took me 30 days actually do the, to commit to it, because I was terrified. I, I. I had all these issues around, am I gonna abandon them? Do they think I'm abandoning them? Can they survive without me? Like when they have dad, you know? And then my mom was here and we had a babysitter, and then we had things in place. My brother was here, but, I'm scared, you know? And the reality is I was Afraid of, you know, I had romanticized this idea that like, if I can't change me, right? I was hoping I would get to treatment and they would say, your husband's insane. You're crazy. You need to change. And I'd be, yes. Me, I could change me, you know? Okay. But no, they were like, your husband's abusing you and you're an alcoholic and you have a extensive history of trauma and we are gonna work on some

the-sober-butterfly_4_02-03-2025_195000:

Mm.

squadcaster-7i30_3_02-03-2025_195000:

and you're not gonna drink. That is a separate thing. You're not gonna do nothing for him. You can't change him, you can't control him. You have to focus here and then you'll see what comes out of focusing here, what comes out of moving over there. And so I just vividly remember. I. These like little magic moments I would say like little micro miracles I call them. But I was on the phone outside with my brother the night before I was leaving and I'm crying. I have three brothers, one of them two aren't, weren't here. And I was crying. I'm like, Anthony, I just can't leave the girls. They're gonna feel abandoned. Like, you know, what would they think? What if I can't do it? And he puts me on hold. I look up and a shooting star went by and I'm like, big on like these signs, right?

the-sober-butterfly_4_02-03-2025_195000:

Wow, me too.

squadcaster-7i30_3_02-03-2025_195000:

said, hold on, I would've been deep in the call and I'm like, chiefing a cigarette. You know, I'm stress smoking. I don't even smoke, but I'm just, I used to smoke, so I'm like, this is a coping mechanism again.

the-sober-butterfly_4_02-03-2025_195000:

Yeah,

squadcaster-7i30_3_02-03-2025_195000:

used to smoke cigarettes and I'd be like, I need a cigarette. I can't breathe.

the-sober-butterfly_4_02-03-2025_195000:

I'm laughing too because like I've definitely said that. Yeah,

squadcaster-7i30_3_02-03-2025_195000:

But yeah, so I I a lot of clarity. I mean, like a. I'm whiplash. I'm in the ocean just getting tossed around, like getting fighting for my life or breath. But each breath I take is like a breath of like, you're gonna survive this.

the-sober-butterfly_4_02-03-2025_195000:

Yeah.

squadcaster-7i30_3_02-03-2025_195000:

going, you have

the-sober-butterfly_4_02-03-2025_195000:

Yeah.

squadcaster-7i30_3_02-03-2025_195000:

It has to feel this way right now.'cause you are deep in middle of a hurricane right now in a tsunami in the middle of the ocean. And it's not gonna be the easiest thing to get out of E Even now I'm like, I'm still in the ocean. have learned now that like. I can lay back and I can float when I'm feeling stressed and I can let the sun, you know, literally and metaphorically be with me, and I can, I don't have to

the-sober-butterfly_4_02-03-2025_195000:

Mm.

squadcaster-7i30_3_02-03-2025_195000:

be treading water. You know, I was always in fight, flight, freeze acquiesce mode. I was, I lived in that.

the-sober-butterfly_4_02-03-2025_195000:

But when you live in that, that there's a source of comfort there because it's what you know, it, it's like all you know. And I think a big part of you becoming, more withdrawn, it sounds like conditioning a form of conditioning, like to your point. With the butterfly behind you? If I'm like, no, that's a snail. What are you talking about? Like you're crazy. Like that gaslighting, I know this term gets thrown around a lot, but like the whole premise of gaslighting is that it comes from an old Alfred Hitchcock movie where literally, I. It's gradual. Like you put your hand over the stove and it like gets turned up one knob or notch at a time to where it's like you don't realize until it's too late, like, oh my hand's on fire. But it's such a gradual process that like it's a form of conditioning. You don't even realize it. And it's like if you're being told you're crazy, you're wrong. You're this, you're that. And then the juxtaposition being on the surface. Life looks pretty. This is what I've, everything I've wanted, right? This is what. Right. Yeah. Like it's, it's really that duality can be really, really hard and confusing. And I think sometimes we have guilt and shame where it's like, I have so much to be grateful for. But it's like, how can you be present and be the best version of self for yourself, first and foremost, but them for your daughters, and show up in the way you know that you, they deserve that you wanna give to them, but you're, you literally stifled or riddled with. Grief or grief slash guilt slash fear. Like I don't wanna leave them. How can I leave them as their mom? But it's like, how can I be the mom they need if I don't do the work that I need to do on myself? Sometimes there are things in our path that like present themselves as a form of support because it sounds like, you know, your husband was like, your ex was like, oh yeah, go to therapy. Do the work. But when you really start to do the work and challenge him, it's also like broken bird syndrome where it's like, oh no, I need you to kind of stay sick. So that I don't have to change myself, and this is in regards to maybe your husband or your ex. So yeah, tell us a little bit about, you know, was he on board with treatment? Because it sounds like therapy was one piece, but then when it came time to go to treatment and you are pushing back more, was he like on board with that as well? And then when you got to therapy or treatment, I should say, what were those concrete pieces of feedback you were getting? Like, oh, a real change needs to happen in my life.

squadcaster-7i30_3_02-03-2025_195000:

treatment, yes and no. I had set up like real like, okay, this is the days the babysitter's gonna come. I had made arrangements. I think that treatment, he was on board because he and I both had the same thought that they were gonna be like, yeah. Like he, he had manipulated the situation ever. They were gonna be like, yeah, you crazy. You're the problem. He is. And I think that he thought I was gonna go there and say that.

the-sober-butterfly_4_02-03-2025_195000:

A good man.

squadcaster-7i30_3_02-03-2025_195000:

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like I think that he thought I was gonna go there and say that, and I kind of thought I was gonna go there and say that because again, I was still, oh no, you're not gonna ruin my perfect fuck. You're not gonna ruin this picture. It's perfect. Nobody's gonna ruin this beautiful family that I, that I've worked so hard for. You know? And so in my mind and in his, I think that he was gearing up to Sure go and because he was ready to be like, you left us for 30 days.'cause that came up. That came,

the-sober-butterfly_4_02-03-2025_195000:

Oh.

squadcaster-7i30_3_02-03-2025_195000:

still comes up and it's been five years. So, yeah. Think he was preparing of like, yes, and, I can't assume, but I can base it off of previous patterns, right. Of behavior of his, that there was probably a thought of like, yeah, sure. Go. We'll see how long it lasts, you know, because I had, I had a serious pattern of like, I'm not drinking for 30 days, and sometimes I'd get 30 days and then I would. the moment I could drink again, I would black out again.'cause I didn't have a stop once I started. I think that, and then when I was at treatment, you know, I started having conversations with my therapist or with other women there, with other therapists there in like small groups and getting feedback or listening in to something else. And I'm like, huh. That's a good, that's a good moment to like inquire about something. And then he would like try to flip the script, but at this point I had now clarity. I had other people going, that doesn't make any sense, Jasmine, that just because he's saying that, does that make sense? You know, like, I mean. There were things like, you know, my car disappeared for months and months and months. Or, you know, financial things were just like, financial abuse was crazy'cause we didn't have electricity on certain occasions and I'm, I'm talking about a professional athlete. And I was like, you know, and I would, I would question that and I would get called names and I would screaming at me and eventually you're just like, okay, forget it. You know? I don't, I don't know, but I think

the-sober-butterfly_4_02-03-2025_195000:

Yeah.

squadcaster-7i30_3_02-03-2025_195000:

in treatment and little things were coming up and I'd have these pockets of time to talk to him. He would again, do the lying and do the like, we'll focus on you while you're there. And I'm like, okay, I'm, yeah.

the-sober-butterfly_4_02-03-2025_195000:

Mm-hmm.

squadcaster-7i30_3_02-03-2025_195000:

in and in the factual matter I was away, it also gave me a perspective of like, only miss our daughters. Like, I don't even miss him. And I, it didn't, I don't think I realized it at the time, but I only wanted to ever talk to them because I, I was so desperate. Like I just wanted to be with them, you know? Like, I wish I could have brought them with me on the journey, which isn't even realistic and wouldn't have been able to get what I needed. But while I was there, I remember, and this goes back to like this physical feeling of my heart hurting, and this was the most, one of the most profound moments. of coming alive was, we were in a group setting where I, where I went to treatment, there was a rock star and he wouldn't mind if I say his name, but I'm not gonna he's going on and at this point he wasn't there again for like heroin. He was there because he was habitually lying and cheating. And he was like, I need help, you know? And so he we're

the-sober-butterfly_4_02-03-2025_195000:

Yeah.

squadcaster-7i30_3_02-03-2025_195000:

and he's like, we're basically in an, in a NA meeting. And he's going on about how, all addicts and alcoholics are liars. All we ever do is lie. We just lie to people. We don't care about anybody. And there was a young man who was there in a wheelchair and he was in the wheelchair because he had been in two car accidents in one night. So he, you know, was messed up driving high and drunk and drove and then crashed that truck. And he was in lives in the middle of the country. So he was like, all right, come on, somebody to pick me up. I'm going again. Gets to another car. The second time he crashes and he ends up paralyzed and he goes. his turn to share. And he goes, actually, I'm a horrible liar. Like, it doesn't make I feel horrible. Like I feel nausea when I lie. He's like, but like, I don't know. I just don't like it. Like, but I lied to myself. And when he said that, like, oh, I have never had like a more. When he said that, I literally like something just and I remember feeling like, like it was like somebody took my heart and went like a wishbone just like broken in half. And I felt this physical feeling of my heartbreaking and I stood up and I was like, I have been actively descriptively, aggressively lying to myself. And it just. When I tell you I sob like something died.'cause I truly believe in my heart that it did. I went outside behind this shed and I I mean, I didn't stop sobbing. I sobbed the whole way out. But I, I wanted like some sort of semblance of privacy. I. Sobbed and I sobbed and I'm being probably like four and a half hours because at some point or another, eventually, like they came to get me and I went into my little cabin and I was in my shower and they all knew how much I love music. So nobody's saying anything to me. Nobody goes and says, Hey Claudia, like Jasmine needs her music'cause you don't have your phone. Get it for like certain times. But I just remember like Claudia coming and putting my, my phone like right outside the shower and being like, you have your music.'cause I was, I mean, it was. The water was cold and I just was sitting in there just sobbing and I put my music on and I just kept on crying'cause I couldn't stop. It was like, for the first time in my whole life, I was feeling every emotion sober. And the reality had said, un to me. Like, I don't like to lie. It makes me, I really suck at it. I wish, I truly do, wish I was better at it. Like I had been so, so, so violently lying to myself and it was killing me and I didn't. Know what to do with that and Right, right. Prior going to treatment, I, well, right when I got into treatment, I had told my therapist there and my breath work therapist there who saved my life, I had said, you know. If I can't change myself, I'm not gonna accidentally give all my girls my burden to my demons. I'll kill myself. I'm like, I will write them these beautiful letters. And I had romanticized like, I belong in the ocean, so I'm gonna do like Virginia Wolf, I'm gonna drink a ball skiva and I'm gonna walk myself into the ocean. Like, I'm not gonna ruin them. I'm not gonna ruin them even on accident because I don't intend to. Right? What mother, my mom, through all of her things, she loved us. She certainly put me in harm's way. Right. And so I just was for sure. I'm like, I'm not, I'm not gonna be that mom. And if I can't do anything about this crazy that I am,'cause I'm losing my mind, gonna kill myself and I'm gonna write them these beautiful letters and then they'll always have an idea of me and. Maybe they'll get a better stepmom or whatever. And I, there's so many layers to that, but being in treatment for 35 days, being away from somebody who was telling me, you are crazy. All these traumas, you can't, these traumas make you illogical. You can't think clearly. Wish there were pockets of truth in that, right? Because there were moments where I was behaving. erratically when I would be upset about something intoxicated, but for the most part, I was pretty level-headed and like rational. I would just maybe have big emotional outbursts when I'd be getting gaslit for an hour and a half. And so I remember vividly that moment. It was like all of a sudden I felt the fear and I did it anyway. Like I knew, okay, now you have to walk into this psycho drama and like. this man that you're in treatment with and this man that you're in treatment with. Be your dad. Be your stepdad. Be this abuser. Be this abuser. Be this person like, and you're gonna walk through how much this hurts. You're gonna sit in breath work and you're gonna physically feel where your body is holding things and you're gonna breathe and you're gonna do it. And. I we did this exercise and breath work and I started dry heaving. Like, I was like, I hate throwing up for somebody who was desperate to be skinny. I hate that was like one of the things I just could not do. I hated throwing up. And I said that to emphasize like that was how much I just despised throwing up. And I was dry heaving really heavily. And I said to Clark, I went into the bathroom and I dry heaved for like a few minutes and I came back out and Clark was our breath work instructor and he was like, he was like, are you okay? You need the nurse? And I said, no. And he said, okay, good. Like, again, it was like releasing something here. You know, I had all this pent up, not having any voice being choked, like all these things. I was releasing something. And so from that point on, no longer was going to treatment and pretending like I was gonna go home and it was gonna be perfect. I did not necessarily know

the-sober-butterfly_4_02-03-2025_195000:

Mm.

squadcaster-7i30_3_02-03-2025_195000:

going to leave him. I knew I was gonna stay sober because something died. Like I hadn't that, that feeling of my heartbreaking. When I'm like processing and I, I've said this story so many times, but I'm just realizing that like I had felt that many a times as a little girl, I had quickly. I once I, you know, I would write as a little kid. I would run, I would play. You had a lot of the ways to cope as, as a kid then as a young girl, I would sex with my boyfriend. I would drink. Then as a young woman, I would do outrageous, dangerous things, you know, and I would drink and I would have sex with my boyfriend. So I kept on finding ways to hurry, hurry, sew it up, sew it up, sew it up, you know? It doesn't fully just come undone. But I literally broke and I didn't rush to put my heart back together. I was just like. What This is heavy and I can't, I can't pick it up right now. I have to leave it just like this. Open, vulnerable, susceptible to more harm, but it is a risk I'm willing to take because I want to be alive now. I want to be here. I want to mother. My daughters, I want to be such an emotional, space for them. Whether that's rage, joy, you know, sorrow. I wanna be that for them, you know? And I am that for them. But at the time I thought these big feelings would kill me. like, I can't, you don't experience the things that I've experienced with, with nowhere for them to go for years, you know? And. You do, and you then you, you survive them, you know? And, but you survived them. I, for me at least, it had to be in community and it had to be an incredibly safe community, you know? And I had to, I had to come out of it, right back to the same, literally gaslighting me, telling me if he had papers. I wouldn't believe in many ways. And, and my therapist, I got her back on the phone with her and she said to me, Jasmine, why are you staying with him? She's like, be realistic with yourself. Is it, you know, this reason or this reason or this reason. She's like, none of those reasons are there anymore. Why are you staying? What are you doing? And it was like, I think she knew to end what she said. She said, listen to me. Do you wanna go to couples therapy?'cause I kept being like, well you're gonna find this couples therapist. Like, you know, you and Claudia, my therapist had treatment, had discussing, even though, I guess in the end they were like, one of us are doing that. We, you're gonna be the one to tell her.'cause she's got a year's worth of rapport with you. And, she said, do you wanna go to couples therapy? And I was like, no, it was, this was September. I left treatment in August. And she said, okay, then. Well, ethically, I will not recommend therapy when you're being abused. She's like, so you need to leave him. And I was like, know, therapists don't say that to you. So I was like, sure. But it, it just, it just like, yeah. I, yes, yes I do, because here I am now, you know, a few weeks out of treatment and we've had. This ongoing argument. He keeps calling me stupid. He called me a stupid, I literate bit. B word. Like he keeps on trying to find ways to bring me lower. And I say this to women when I share, when he comes into the story, they're always like, you know, how did you leave him? Like, how did you know? And I said, aside from my therapist saying that, I vividly remember we were arguing about the same thing. My car being gone for months and months and then this other car, and then this whole layers to these lies. And he's screaming at me and I'm starting to yell back. And because I'm just, I'm just a couple weeks removed from treatment, I just fell to the ground and started sobbing.'cause I was like, okay, whatcha gonna do here? Girl? Like you, you don't got a lot in you. You're just, you're just starting to see the mountain. You're even walking up it yet, you're just starting to see it. And I fell to my knees and I started sobbing and he, you would think in that moment, like somebody that loves you, even the tiny would just stop. No. He kept screaming at me and then he left. And I remember with like my knees in my chest, like almost like a child pose with my knees together, sitting on the carpet. I don't know how long I was there, but I remember thinking like, this is it and you're gonna be okay. And are be

the-sober-butterfly_4_02-03-2025_195000:

Mm

squadcaster-7i30_3_02-03-2025_195000:

your mom has been okay. Your grandmother has been okay. You're gonna be okay

the-sober-butterfly_4_02-03-2025_195000:

mm.

squadcaster-7i30_3_02-03-2025_195000:

and you're gonna start over and you're gonna struggle and it's gonna be scary, but you'll be damned, you know? And. When I was in treatment, I remember like explaining this analogy that my good girlfriend Cara had given me, who also gave me on Tames an incredible just woman friend, mother survivor. She said to me, you know, we all are born with a glass, right? And like the goal as parents is to not. Even smudge the glass, right? We don't want, we don't even wanna chip the glass. Like, we don't wanna do anything to this glass. We wanna keep our babies all perfect and never harm them. And never hurt them, never cause'em any strife. And I said, well, if that's the case, my mom took the glass and was like, fuck it. me. She just threw it against the wall and it shattered everywhere, right? And one of my friends in treatment was like, well, what do you know? You know? Stained glass windows are made outta shattered glass. And that was a perspective shift for me.

the-sober-butterfly_4_02-03-2025_195000:

Beautiful.

squadcaster-7i30_3_02-03-2025_195000:

like, oh my God, I'm not

the-sober-butterfly_4_02-03-2025_195000:

Mm-hmm.

squadcaster-7i30_3_02-03-2025_195000:

goods. My whole life has been trial and error. I've been cutting my fingers, you know, trying to find these pieces to fix myself. But in all

the-sober-butterfly_4_02-03-2025_195000:

Mm-hmm.

squadcaster-7i30_3_02-03-2025_195000:

pieces don't. They're not needed for the picture. You know, I can still create this beautiful mosaic and live this very rich life, and I'm not even saying monetarily, but live this very rich life.

the-sober-butterfly_4_02-03-2025_195000:

Yeah.

squadcaster-7i30_3_02-03-2025_195000:

daughters without a lot of pieces, you know, and it

the-sober-butterfly_4_02-03-2025_195000:

Yeah.

squadcaster-7i30_3_02-03-2025_195000:

again, I think that's why the community is so important. But those, those pockets of of moments just kept pouring into me and just kept reminding me like, you're gonna be okay. And, and it, it's gonna hurt. And I remember. know, early in sobriety, I spent two hours in my car listening to a Dert Kennedy song in front of the Dollar Tree for two hours, the same song, and I stopped because it came down to like, you're either gonna go get drunk right now, or you're gonna feel it and you're gonna feel it until you feel. Better or until you feel content or even keeled, until you feel like you can breathe, you're going to feel it, Jasmine, because you can feel these things and you can, and you will survive them. There's no two ways about it. And then now I had, now I had no doubt of that. I knew it. And so it was like, all right, sometimes it's gonna hurt, you know?

the-sober-butterfly_5_02-03-2025_202146:

I, I have a chills, Jasmine. I'm trying to hold it together'cause like, there were moments where I, like, I just feel so connected to what you're sharing and it makes me want to cry. It's beautiful and it's painful. And when you were describing your life. As broken glass that can create a beautiful, beautiful mosaic. Right? It's also, I, I think like important for your daughters and how beautiful. You have daughters too, right? Like you two daughters I think it's so. Powerful for your daughters to see you assemble the pieces. Like not just slap it together, like just, oh, I'm gonna make it fit and destroy yourself in the process of trying to create something, but like actually to do the work and say like, I, maybe I'm gonna be vulnerable and show my daughters that. Like I would rather have. Uncertainty or fear in this part of my life that I don't know how it ends as opposed to staying in a situation that I do know how it ends. And I think going back to what you had mentioned before, and I it's a question for you too, like, what was the biggest lie you told yourself when you had that breakthrough moment in. Your session with your community, like what was the lie do you think that you told yourself the most that was anchoring you or holding you back for so long?

squadcaster-7i30_4_02-03-2025_202147:

I think in Twofolds, maybe even this is a little trifold. I think one, um, I was telling myself, you're fine. It's okay. You know, I

the-sober-butterfly_5_02-03-2025_202146:

Hmm.

squadcaster-7i30_4_02-03-2025_202147:

to stop crying, you know, like, that was, that was deeply ingrained in my system. Stop crying. I'm a big feeler. I've been a big feeler kid probably since, you know, brought out the womb. Um, next was that. You won't survive if you, if you, if you face the darkness, you ain't coming out the tunnel baby girl, you're not gonna make it. You're too far in, you're too far deep in the ocean. You cannot get back. Like, there's no point. So just suffer. Right? And the other one was that, you know, cannot face the reality of everybody knowing that I, that I failed at my life, you know, that I got pregnant with somebody. I was never gonna be in an abusive relationship. You know, I. I had left a, a physically violent man who almost killed me thinking, well, he doesn't hit me. You know, like, and I remember telling my therapist, I wish he would just, oh God, I remember this. I, I wish he would just punch me. Then I could just say, look, everybody, I have to leave him, see what

the-sober-butterfly_5_02-03-2025_202146:

Yeah. Yeah.

squadcaster-7i30_4_02-03-2025_202147:

Jasmine, who do you have to show that to? I'm like, I have to validate something to somebody. So I think. One was the, you know, I was afraid, you know, like, I can't survive. next was just like this shame of like, I can't tell anybody. And the other one was just like, where, what to do? You know? Like, I just didn't see, there was no way, there was no exit strategy that seemed feasible to change. I didn't, I didn't even think I could at the time, and so I was telling myself, you're fine. It's okay. Suck it up buttercup. Get over yourself. Like I, I just had a such negative, negative regard to my emotions. You know,

the-sober-butterfly_5_02-03-2025_202146:

Yeah.

squadcaster-7i30_4_02-03-2025_202147:

everything, if I thought anything that was uncomfy, how dare I essentially, you know, like you are expected to be this way and that's it. But I was doing that to myself. People didn't expect me to behave that way. I just kept telling myself that because I was always, again, in places I didn't belong with people that didn't care about me. So, of course, they wanted me to just smile and be there because. They didn't, they didn't have any regard for me as a human being, you know?

the-sober-butterfly_5_02-03-2025_202146:

Right, right. So now. To go back to you in child's pose, essentially sobbing in front of a man who's supposed to love you and honor you and stand by you, especially in early recovery, like you just came out of treatment and to your point, your. Open like your, your heart is open. You're in such a vulnerable place. This is where a lot of people who come out of treatment or who are in early recovery, like this is a time where you're ultra sensitive and you sitting in a parking lot outside of idolatry listening to the same song. Like no, literally I've been there too, not like quite literally there, but I've been in the space where I'm like, two. Roads diverge, whatever the, the Robert Frost poem is like in the middle of the woods. And it's like I can take the path that I've always taken once again, going back to comfort. Like even though I know it's self-destructive, it's something that I'm familiar with and therefore I want to go that way, or I can go into the unknown and that territory feels. Fucking frightening. Right? So obviously you stayed the course and you decided to stay sober in the back of your mind, you know, because you've had heating from your therapist and you, you've also, you're also tapping, it sounds to me like you're tapping into your inner voice and you're recognizing, okay, like even though there are no physical scars, like this is abusive and I need to get out of this. It's me or him. And so what did you do? Like take us back to that moment like. Was it you being on the floor sobbing and him leaving for you to say like, this is it? Or like, how did you get to the place where you're like, I, I'm done. I don't care what the image looks like. I don't care what people think of me or what the perception is. Like I'm choosing me and my daughters and I'm getting out of here.

the-sober-butterfly_2_01-08-2025_164227:

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squadcaster-7i30_4_02-03-2025_202147:

Well, I mean that moment happened after I left treatment, but in treatment. You do this thing called a trauma egg, and essentially it is like, for me, at the time, I felt like I was burying myself alive and I was really struggling to do it. But it is, it's essentially you draw out, you can do stick figures, you have to create images of your traumas so that it hits different parts of the brain, right? It's called a trauma egg. And they give you a poster and utilize the space as you need. And so I have, again, extensive histories of traumas. It fill the whole poster. And at the very top of my trauma egg is my current life, and it's. Myself, him, our daughters, and they are, um, crouched out in this space and they're saying things like, what, why? And they have a couple tears in their eyes and the amount of teardrops was really important to like express what, like how far are they into the scenario? You know, like how much do they know? How much do they recognize? Like this is unhealthy, are they, how afraid are they? Like they're so, they were so, so

the-sober-butterfly_5_02-03-2025_202146:

Sorry, Jasmine, how old were your daughters at this time? I'm just curious. Four.

squadcaster-7i30_4_02-03-2025_202147:

about to be three and four.

the-sober-butterfly_5_02-03-2025_202146:

Okay. Okay.

squadcaster-7i30_4_02-03-2025_202147:

yeah, the, our youngest was gonna be three in November, and this was all happening around, um, from July to October is when I was in treatment and leaving and all the things. Um, but on my trauma egg, where all four of us and then in there is also like me holding a bottle of wine somewhere, like in the sky kind of. And I drew this darkness around all of us. And then he's screaming all these horrible words around me. kind of crouched down in the corner, confused and crying. And then outside of the darkness and all these horrible words, they're like, I love you. I'm sorry. You're the best thing that ever happened to me. Like, you know, I think you are smart. I mean, I wish I didn't call you that. I didn't say, you are a bitch. I said you were being a bitch. Like, I'm not calling you stupid. I just think sometimes you don't think clearly or like, you know, whatever. And I was looking at my trauma egg, which you're supposed to burn, which that's a whole nother story, but, um, I was looking at it. After that scenario, after that incident happened, I was like, this, all of these things that have happened to me, that have happened for me not me and will never be me. The darkest place I've ever been in my life is with this man how I'm like looking at it and I'm like, how? And then I, I like, at them, their, their stick figures on the poster and I was like, absolutely not. Absolutely not. I lived with monsters of men. I'm not doing it. I'm not doing it. And know, even now I have to reflect on, know, sometimes I have a little bit of mom guilt, but I also recognize that like, if I was to still be alive at this point our timeline, this current day, I would be a numbed out, drinking like I, I wouldn't be healthy, right? Or I

the-sober-butterfly_5_02-03-2025_202146:

Yeah.

squadcaster-7i30_4_02-03-2025_202147:

at all. Because again, I, I would've, it wouldn't have taken long to get me back to thinking I was losing my mind.

the-sober-butterfly_5_02-03-2025_202146:

Yeah.

squadcaster-7i30_4_02-03-2025_202147:

Um, and so the, the, the straw that broke the camel's back was like that moment looking at my poster. And then he had gotten traded. So he was gone for like a month and I had time to like. Be with just me and the girls. And I remember we went to the zoo. Oh, this memory's so rich. It's so good. We went to the zoo and we were walking around the zoo, and for the first time I felt, I felt like how you can feel now that I'm sober, I can feel intense joy, intense sadness. I know that I can feel them all. remember wa and I, I smell the air right now. I see the giraffes, like remember walking around the zoo and they're running it, and they're walking in front of me and thinking to myself. This is what life would be like when it's just us three, you know? And I felt so peace. It was just like, but it was a micro moment, right? It wasn't this big old thing, but I just remember the feeling of like, it was like, you could paint us and we would stay there forever, you know, like, and it just, I don't know. It was so magical to just, I think that was my higher power, saying like, this is what life can be. It's not always gonna be roses, but this piece. You will and can feel that people deserve that. You know, not just me, but people in general. Especially, you know, if, if you're, if you're, um, not in peace because of abuse, like you don't have to be in that. And so it just, it was beautiful. I didn't have to romanticize it. It was real, I really felt peace. Yeah. It wasn't me telling myself a story. It was, and did that, did that knowing of peace scare me.'cause then it was like, all right, now I was about to get real, real. Now you have to, what's next? If this feels this peaceful all these other layers are factual, now you actually have to uproot your life. You have to file the papers, you have to do these things. Logistical things that are stressful, that are emotionally taxing, that are financially taxing, that are fist, you know? Um, and I did, worked a lot. I cried a lot. I studied a lot. I, I did a lot. It was a lot of doing in the beginning.

the-sober-butterfly_5_02-03-2025_202146:

And did your ex fight, quote, fight for the relationship? Did he push back? Was he like, you're making a mistake, or did he accept that you're serious and this was the right thing to do for your family?

squadcaster-7i30_4_02-03-2025_202147:

On paper he contested twice, which, but never really spoke about it. Um, and instead of that, he did what my therapist in treatment said he may do. And I was like, Hmm, girl, I don't know. You don't know him. Like I'm still a little defensive

the-sober-butterfly_5_02-03-2025_202146:

I.

squadcaster-7i30_4_02-03-2025_202147:

time. And she said, you know, when you. Leave him. He may try to take the girls from you. And I was like, no,

the-sober-butterfly_5_02-03-2025_202146:

Oh

squadcaster-7i30_4_02-03-2025_202147:

mom. He knows I'm a good mom. He knows who I am. he did just that. Um, it didn't work, obviously. Um, but he went from like, you baby. I want us to work out. When I was just like, Hey, but if we're gonna work out, you gotta do the work. You know,

the-sober-butterfly_5_02-03-2025_202146:

yeah. Right.

squadcaster-7i30_4_02-03-2025_202147:

be. And I'll get to that in a second. But I've used this, um, analogy since I had our first daughter, and I used it with everybody, including my brothers, who I'm really close with. I said, I am on this little tiny wooden boat with this tiny human, I am her first and last line of defense, Anthony, my brother, and he's a healthy human. But I said, I love you, but if you come over here with that chaos, you gotta get out of the way. I cannot risk tipping this boat over. Like,

the-sober-butterfly_5_02-03-2025_202146:

Yeah.

squadcaster-7i30_4_02-03-2025_202147:

then I, you know, I'm with their dad and we're on our little steel boat, but it's still a little tiny boat. You cannot tip this boat over. I, I have to keep her safe. So nobody, if anybody comes over here trying to rock this boat, you're out. You know? And so I, I really had to root into the fact of like, he's not gonna try to get me back now because I'm not backing down. I'm not accepting your apology. With no action. And when I said, Hey, I'd like to do 60 40 custody, because you know you're still playing, you're gonna be traveling. I have been their primary parent because you've been the, the provider, which is, that's fine. Um, claims that that's why he said, I'm taking full custody. And not only did he try to take full custody, he had a extensive. Thing about me that was untrue. So I had double back and like go to go to my treatment people and have them like show that I successfully completed treatment. I had to have all these things in place, you know, and I, I was so vulnerable and willing to say to him, listen, I know, know that when I was drunk and upset at you, I called you a coward and a liar. I'm not proud of that. I, I,

the-sober-butterfly_5_02-03-2025_202146:

Right.

squadcaster-7i30_4_02-03-2025_202147:

I could have handled our disagreements better, I don't. I vividly remember when he told me he was taking full, trying to take full custody, and I tried to meet him at the park for one last, like, Hey, have to be together, but like, let's pretend like we love each other at one point for whatever we knew love to be. And I remember crying to him trying to make what I thought then was I was making an appropriate events, didn't know what I was doing, but, um, crying to him and I was like, I love you and. I'm grateful for the things that you have done for me. I'm grateful that you paid for treatment. I'm grateful that you gave me these beautiful girls. I'm grateful that, you know, able to do X, Y, Z, but I do not owe you my life and I will not give it to you. And I was

the-sober-butterfly_5_02-03-2025_202146:

Right.

squadcaster-7i30_4_02-03-2025_202147:

dead faced about that. And I meant it, and I mean it. And I'm, I don't think he has the emotional capacity to fully understand what I meant, but I sat in my power in that moment of like, I have done wrong in this. Relationship. I have put you in poor positions. I have called you names. I have, you know, um, been mean nasty and unkind. I have, but I'm a damn good mom and I don't owe you my life.

the-sober-butterfly_5_02-03-2025_202146:

Mm.

squadcaster-7i30_4_02-03-2025_202147:

to you. You know? So I

the-sober-butterfly_5_02-03-2025_202146:

Right,

squadcaster-7i30_4_02-03-2025_202147:

no, he did in the end when he realized like, oh shit, I didn't, that scare tactic didn't work. She

the-sober-butterfly_5_02-03-2025_202146:

right.

squadcaster-7i30_4_02-03-2025_202147:

back, which now she sees me and there's no coming back from that. And they can't be seen when they, when they see that you see them. Then they just like, run. They run amongst,

the-sober-butterfly_5_02-03-2025_202146:

And I mean, he saw you standing in your power like you. Meant what you said and like that's the refreshing part of sobriety. When you have that clarity and that discernment and you decide like, no, I mean it like I am about what I say and I mean what I say. There's power there and I think that can be frightening. And it sounds like that was his last like what you said, like that was his last attempt to control you or to. I think it's a form of control. Like, oh, I'm gonna take the, the last, the one thing that I know Jasmine needs and cares most about in this world. Like, please, that's not gonna work thankfully, but like, that's what he tried to do. And that's cowardice. I know that you said that you, you shouldn't have called him coward. I cowardice. I.

squadcaster-7i30_4_02-03-2025_202147:

facts well, he, um. He wrote that, the thing he wrote was like, she went to treatment, she's an alcoholic. Like things that I was owning, you know, and my lawyer was like, Jasmine and my therapist all were like, not a single person is gonna look at somebody who's, who recognizes they were unhealthy and is actively trying to get better, is gonna look at that and go shame on her. She doesn't deserve her kids. They're not, you know, and I mean, I went through like going to the girls' school and having the, the teachers that know me again, I wasn't a daily lay in my bed all day drinker. I got drunk. Three times a month on a Saturday. Like, but I went to every school thing, you know, they always had fresh lunches packed. I was a very present mom. I breasted both of'em for a year. So I'm like, I was, I was there, you know? Um. There was also a lot of pumping and dumping, but I was there. And so when uh, that all happened, I, I went into like, okay, you wanna do this? I'm gonna go with facts. You can say whatever you want. You can gaslight, you can manipulate, but I have facts. So I went and had, I had like 30 people that had been in our lives from, from the day I met him from before him to like times with the kids that all had, half of those people had relationships with our daughters and with me, with our daughters. Right. Like little things. And my lawyer was like, you're not gonna need it. I was like, I don't care. I don't care. I want it so that if it ever was to come up, the judge is gets to see me. You know? And then we had that person come and like investigate that. He wanted it worked. out beautifully.'cause she was like, best way to describe him is he berates her. He belittles her and he gaslights her. And she

the-sober-butterfly_5_02-03-2025_202146:

Wow.

squadcaster-7i30_4_02-03-2025_202147:

describe Jasmine is, yeah, she goes best way to describe Jasmine and her situation. She makes decisions out of fear a lot of the time. And she, when she's emotionally regulated, chef's kiss when she's not. just it a little chaos, you know? And she's like, but Jasmine actively will take the feedback and will do the work, and is the emotional safe space for the kids. And so when that all came out, he hated that lady. She was, she was not smart, not accredited. She's got a

the-sober-butterfly_5_02-03-2025_202146:

yeah,

squadcaster-7i30_4_02-03-2025_202147:

yada, yada, yada.

the-sober-butterfly_5_02-03-2025_202146:

she. Let me ask you, do you think that, um, if this is a hypothetical, of course, but if you didn't have the girls, so you were just with your ex, do you think you would've still left or it would've followed that same timeline.

squadcaster-7i30_4_02-03-2025_202147:

I think it would've happened sooner. Um,

the-sober-butterfly_5_02-03-2025_202146:

You think you would've left him before

squadcaster-7i30_4_02-03-2025_202147:

yeah, I don't think sobriety

the-sober-butterfly_5_02-03-2025_202146:

were like,

squadcaster-7i30_4_02-03-2025_202147:

sooner.

the-sober-butterfly_5_02-03-2025_202146:

okay, I see.

squadcaster-7i30_4_02-03-2025_202147:

him sooner because having them, one put me in a position where I was not like financially independent in any

the-sober-butterfly_5_02-03-2025_202146:

Fair. Yeah.

squadcaster-7i30_4_02-03-2025_202147:

two, I, again, I was desperate for my perfect life. I was

the-sober-butterfly_5_02-03-2025_202146:

Gotcha.

squadcaster-7i30_4_02-03-2025_202147:

My daughters are gonna grow up with their dad in the house. We are gonna fix this. You know, we're gonna, we're gonna make another baby through these problems. We're gonna, we're gonna just love and love and love and we're gonna fight and be fine and fight and be fine. And it's, it's great. But I got to the point also, I. Where I remember telling him like, you have to stop yelling at me. Because in all honesty, I could be saying, I hope you die. Jump off a bridge. Right? But I'm not yelling. I'm sitting crying.

the-sober-butterfly_5_02-03-2025_202146:

Yeah.

squadcaster-7i30_4_02-03-2025_202147:

And our daughter, I'm being serious. I'm sitting crying, and our daughters are witnessing this, and you are screaming in my face this close, blah, blah, blah. who could be saying the worst thing of anybody's ever heard in their lives, You are the person who appears to be the monster and

the-sober-butterfly_5_02-03-2025_202146:

Right.

squadcaster-7i30_4_02-03-2025_202147:

baby. Like I remember

the-sober-butterfly_5_02-03-2025_202146:

Mm-hmm.

squadcaster-7i30_4_02-03-2025_202147:

these things like before I was ready to leave him. Like as time was going on, I was like, they love you, but they are gonna be, they're gonna think that you are a monster. And that's not who I want them to think loves me, because that's what they're gonna equate this to. Right? That's what they're gonna think. And so I remember

the-sober-butterfly_5_02-03-2025_202146:

I.

squadcaster-7i30_4_02-03-2025_202147:

yeah.

the-sober-butterfly_5_02-03-2025_202146:

You know, your kids are young at this time, but that would be the first representation of what love is for them. Like your father is typically the first man that you see as someone that loves you. And if daddy loves mommy, and Daddy loves me, like it's easy for that narrative to continue and that cycle to continue where you just think that that's normal, that's totally normalized. Like men that love me scream in my face. And obviously that's not the messaging that you want your daughters to learn.

squadcaster-7i30_4_02-03-2025_202147:

And even before, like, that just brings me back to like before going to treatment and getting sober again. Trying all things to make efforts not, not ready to like equate some of the problems to my drinking. I knew I had the traumas, but I remember being like, you know, let's separate, not divorce, not do anything crazy, but

the-sober-butterfly_5_02-03-2025_202146:

Mm-hmm.

squadcaster-7i30_4_02-03-2025_202147:

move here, just move next door. Even like while we navigate because. This is what we do almost every day. You know, it's just so exhausting and it's so unhealthy for them, you know? And um, I definitely think, you know, I still sometimes struggle with sharing custody, but I also know that like, when it comes down to it, there's legal reasons and there's things that come into play where there's just things that are get outta my control. However, I. know when they land back here with me like we are, this is their home. You know?

the-sober-butterfly_5_02-03-2025_202146:

Yeah.

squadcaster-7i30_4_02-03-2025_202147:

where they can be fully. In their bodies, in their minds, in their spirits, in their emotions. And we just get to navigate that together. They get to human here, you know, and like, that's

the-sober-butterfly_5_02-03-2025_202146:

Yeah,

squadcaster-7i30_4_02-03-2025_202147:

thing I could give them because had I stayed with him and stayed an alcohol, stayed an active alcoholic, they'd have no way to be, no place to be a human. Maybe it would be school or the boyfriend's house, or the best

the-sober-butterfly_5_02-03-2025_202146:

yeah,

squadcaster-7i30_4_02-03-2025_202147:

It would be everywhere, but where they lay their head every night, and I just didn't want that to be their lives.

the-sober-butterfly_5_02-03-2025_202146:

yeah. You have. That safe haven, it's a reprieve for them like that. Like to your point, you are home. And when they come home, they know that their mom obviously like not to say their father doesn't love them in the same way, but like you are a healing slash healed version of self that can pour into them and show them like, mommy chose me. As a woman, I chose myself and I choose you. And like, I think that is just so profound. And I grew up with mostly a single mom and I think to her own detriment, like she didn't date. I never saw her bring any guy around, ever. Um, and selfishly, I, I really am so. I am just so thankful that my mom chose herself and chose me. Like she came out of a pretty toxic relationship with my dad. And I think it gave me a really good baseline for like what I deserve, like as a human, like what do you deserve? And I didn't have to see my dad also at his worst, like, you know, like,'cause I know they had a toxic relationship, but I didn't have to see that. You know what I mean? So I think.

squadcaster-7i30_4_02-03-2025_202147:

You say that's such a beautiful point. You don't have to see him at his worst'cause. Yeah. I love that.

the-sober-butterfly_5_02-03-2025_202146:

Because she chose to separate. Um, and I, I hope the same for your daughter. How has co-parenting be been for you? Sorry.

squadcaster-7i30_4_02-03-2025_202147:

know, it is, and it's a constant navigation.

the-sober-butterfly_5_02-03-2025_202146:

Yeah, I.

squadcaster-7i30_4_02-03-2025_202147:

pocket of what can I control, what's worth the energy, you know? And I think now that we are officially divorced, which that took a long time, I feel eight and seven.

the-sober-butterfly_5_02-03-2025_202146:

Okay. Got it.

squadcaster-7i30_4_02-03-2025_202147:

Yeah. Um, I feel now. I dunno. I felt a lot of ease in co-parenting. Not because it's easy, but because I just let it ride. I'm, I'm an excellent gray rocker. It took me.

the-sober-butterfly_5_02-03-2025_202146:

Yeah.

squadcaster-7i30_4_02-03-2025_202147:

But I'm, I'm really, I am excellent at it now, and I think, again, I'm so rich in my life. I have so many moving parts that these, these things, these, um, minor attacks and my character and minor attacks on my life, I can just actively ignore them because I literally have so many beautiful, wonderful things that call my attention over here that I have, you know, worked really hard to have in my life. So I'm like, I don't have the capacity for that. And, um, you know, we have other. We have a mechanism in place where, you know, this lady who helps us communicate. So it's like if things are getting where like, hey, I'm not, I'm not hearing that there's a third party to go, Hey, you

the-sober-butterfly_5_02-03-2025_202146:

Beautiful.

squadcaster-7i30_4_02-03-2025_202147:

if he can make that logical, and if it's not actually logical, then she can go, Hey, you know, like there's a, there's a voice of reason,

the-sober-butterfly_5_02-03-2025_202146:

Yeah.

squadcaster-7i30_4_02-03-2025_202147:

And so that creates a lot of peace. And you know, I am. What I feel, and I've gotten feedback like this from my, um, coworkers who are therapists, some of them, and from my therapist, I feel as though I do a good job of being honest with our daughters while respecting the age that they're at and the relationship that they have with their father. Because at the end of the day, part of the reason I left him was to not taint like you, you said with your mom, basically not take their image of him like.

the-sober-butterfly_5_02-03-2025_202146:

Yeah.

squadcaster-7i30_4_02-03-2025_202147:

not going to tell them that he was the perfect, most best ever, because then I'm gaslighting them.

the-sober-butterfly_5_02-03-2025_202146:

Right.

squadcaster-7i30_4_02-03-2025_202147:

I have told them, Hey, mommy and daddy weren't healthy together. I don't just say me or I don't just say him. Mommy and daddy weren't healthy together. So like when they would ask questions at the beginning, I would say, that is why, you know, um, I like will speak to his strengths, like the good things about him when I share things with them or if they say, oh, well daddy did this or his girlfriend did this. I'm like, oh, I love that. Like I. We'll, always and forever want more pure, good love around my children, around anybody that I love. You know? Like I want you to be engulfed in love all the time. What a beautiful feeling that is. So I always speak positively and when I don't,'cause I'm a human, pockets of that. I will then, you know. Right my wrong by saying, Hey, mommy was wrong and I da dah, dah, dah. Right? I was really upset about this or I had to navigate this, or, you know, I will explain to them and like they come to me. There was moments where they were pretty not nice to me. Um, especially our oldest daughter and I was really struggling and some of it was just a, a test to her age.'cause I have other friends who were like. I'm happily married and my daughter still acts like that, right? So that gave me some comfort,

the-sober-butterfly_5_02-03-2025_202146:

Yeah.

squadcaster-7i30_4_02-03-2025_202147:

recognized that she was angry at me, you know, and, and trying to find ways to express it. And so

the-sober-butterfly_5_02-03-2025_202146:

No.

squadcaster-7i30_4_02-03-2025_202147:

one of the most beautiful, beautiful things that has come out of, again, this perspective shift that I've been giving in sobriety. Is that at first when I would have to combat the poor things that have been said about me in, in the other parents' households and with other grandparents and aunts and uncles and things, it was so devastating and I would, I would do the dance and I would, I would be performing trying to tell them, try trying to tell our small children this is, and this and that, is that and that. But now. Because of the work I've done and the relationships that I have and the people that I'm able to get feedback from, now am like, I look at these conversations that I have with my girls around some of the things that they're struggling with, with being in two households as like beautiful ways to process. Like we process. Like, okay, you're really angry about yeah, X, Y, Z, because one person said this and then I'm saying this. Let's talk about it. You know? Or like I've explained to them as time goes on, like. Gonna have you, you'll be able to have a feeling. Does that feel true to you? You know, and like,

the-sober-butterfly_5_02-03-2025_202146:

Hmm.

squadcaster-7i30_4_02-03-2025_202147:

about what that looks like. And then if you wanna see the facts, I'm happy to share, like, again, age appropriate things.

the-sober-butterfly_5_02-03-2025_202146:

Right.

squadcaster-7i30_4_02-03-2025_202147:

but I'm very, I'm appropriately transparent with them. And I take an, I take accountability. I will say, you know what, mommy, I'm not being the, I'm not being the best mom I wanna be right now. Like, I'm really frustrated and I'm, I used to be, um. Back before we were officially divorced, any, I could be in a great mood and then I would get a really crabby message like, can you read? Or, you know, you're so illogical still. so it would still trigger me, you know, or he'd say, you're being stupid. And then I'd be like, stop. Don't call me stupid. And he'd be like, I said, you're being stupid. I'm like, oh, this is like being married. What am I doing? You know? Um, but stupid is a big trigger word for me. And he knew that. So I, I was like, I was feeding it though. I was arguing

the-sober-butterfly_5_02-03-2025_202146:

Yeah.

squadcaster-7i30_4_02-03-2025_202147:

now. I, and that used to set me off. So maybe I had the girls and I, then I would get short. Then I'd be like, get in the bath, da da da. And I'm like, why am

the-sober-butterfly_5_02-03-2025_202146:

Mm-hmm.

squadcaster-7i30_4_02-03-2025_202147:

the anger? Had some had to go somewhere and here I am yelling at my kids. Like, what? Then I become this monster that I literally worked so hard not to be for them in so many spaces and now I was just telling my mom this, and one of my girlfriends, like, I feel so rooted in my power as their mom. Like that had been something I was trying to prove for so long, but like. Now I just feel really rooted and grounded in it. So I'm not triggered by his little nuancing attacks on me. I just brush them off and or provide a factual thing behind them when one of my kids will ask me, Hey, da, da, da, and I'm like, well, here's X, Y, z. You know, I mean, navigate it together. Um, and I could give a, a, a small example that's like, there's room for that. Um,

the-sober-butterfly_5_02-03-2025_202146:

Yeah.

squadcaster-7i30_4_02-03-2025_202147:

our oldest and this, this would seem small unless people again. Understand oldest, one day she comes home and she has to get her planner signed. And so I say, do this last little math in the morning, right, because it's past your bedtime. And I said to her, I'll sign your planner in the morning. And she goes, mommy, daddy said you don't have the privilege of signing my planner anymore. I said, he said what? I like got her loved one. I kind of was like, haha. I said, um, am I your mom? Do I feed you? Do you live here? Do you, you know, do I go to all your school stuff? I said, have you asked your teacher? Like, and she's like, no. And I said, well, maybe tomorrow I'll ask her. So now fast forward to the morning and she's finishing her math and I go, honey, bring me your planner so I can sign it. And. She just starts sobbing and I'm like, honey, why are you crying? What is the matter? Daddy's going to be mad at me. And I'm confused because you said you can't sign it and Daddy's saying you can't sign it. And I, at this point, I'm, I'm, I mean, hot on the inside, but I'm not at her. I obviously, I got on my literal knee standing in front of her, right in front of her front door, and I said, baby, do you know what? gonna sign your planner because I am your mother and I have every single right to sign your planner. And you can tell Daddy that I said I was signing it. So if daddy wants to be mad, daddy would be mad at me. And do you understand? I always have your back when you're mad. I have your back when you're not being kind. I have your back when you're being a grudge advisor, which is what I call them. I have your back. I always have your back a hundred percent. anybody, for anybody with anybody. And I said, but I'm gonna sign this planner. You know? And like little things, they, sometimes they wouldn't hug me if he was around. They would like wave by and not say, I love you. And I, that would so hurt me so, so bad. then I thought like, maybe I should stop going to school events when he's there and not make them uncomfortable. And I got

the-sober-butterfly_5_02-03-2025_202146:

Oh.

squadcaster-7i30_4_02-03-2025_202147:

that. I know, which I'm definitely not doing that, but I had thought about it. And so, you know, our daughter, our youngest wouldn't hug me one time and I said, why wouldn't you give mommy a hug? And she was like, because Daddy would've been mad'cause we would've been late leaving the appointment. And I'm like, okay, but

the-sober-butterfly_5_02-03-2025_202146:

Okay.

squadcaster-7i30_4_02-03-2025_202147:

it, you know? And I'm like, these are the things that I combat. then I also, made it not about me. I'm like, you

the-sober-butterfly_5_02-03-2025_202146:

Right.

squadcaster-7i30_4_02-03-2025_202147:

really feel this way and I know that they love me. So I know when they come home and they're stomping off and they're getting all their feelings out, it's'cause I have the capacity for them. You know, I, I am the safe place, so they do this here, and I let it happen. There's a, there's a respect, right? We're, we're doing this fine line of like,

the-sober-butterfly_5_02-03-2025_202146:

Of course, of course. But the fact that they can release those feelings or be their authentic selves with you is a testament to you as a mother, right? Because if they have to present themselves in a different way, in a different light, fear or a fear might be, not be the best word, but like in response to. Daddy's sensitivity or like daddy's response. I think that is telling, like I think you as a mom, unfortunately, and I just wanna say like, I wanna give you the space and grace because I can imagine how difficult that is even though like you have the wherewithal and like you have the emotional maturity to, to not personalize it because you know that your daughters care and they love you. That still must hurt and like that's still hard, right? To like. Be on the receiving end all the time and having to be the bigger person. And like, I, I just wanna say like, you're doing hard work and I, I,

squadcaster-7i30_4_02-03-2025_202147:

you.

the-sober-butterfly_5_02-03-2025_202146:

I can only imagine, but like, also it just sounds tricky to navigate even today.

squadcaster-7i30_4_02-03-2025_202147:

Yeah. And I'm so, so grateful. I, I will say community is. know, I saw this video the other day that women was like, you guys, we, we, we all talk a lot about community, but like community also means sitting in discomfort. It means having hard conversations. And I'm like, that is my community. They will check me in the most. They hold me in the most firm and gentle way possible. You know, and I can come undone in these incredibly safe spaces with these people that'll say, Hey, that does not deserve your energy. Or yo that needs to change. Like, you need to

the-sober-butterfly_5_02-03-2025_202146:

Right.

squadcaster-7i30_4_02-03-2025_202147:

Or, you know, and they don't say it like that. That's just how I'm talking. But

the-sober-butterfly_5_02-03-2025_202146:

No, obviously I, I get it. I get it.

squadcaster-7i30_4_02-03-2025_202147:

a lot of, um, support challenge, and I'm so grateful for that because these are the people that care about who I am, not just like face value or what I have to do for them or how I can serve them. They

the-sober-butterfly_5_02-03-2025_202146:

Mm-hmm.

squadcaster-7i30_4_02-03-2025_202147:

care about my wellbeing, which obviously so beautifully flows into my kids' wellbeing, and so I'm able to show up. I'm able to pivot constantly because I, I, I've received feedback. whether I ask for it or not, but usually it's in, it's, it's, it's unsolicited. Unsolicited because they know me and I, they know like, Hey, Ja could use a little support right now. Right.

the-sober-butterfly_5_02-03-2025_202146:

Trust

squadcaster-7i30_4_02-03-2025_202147:

yeah. And I am so, so grateful for that because without that, I wouldn't be able to do this for the next, I wouldn't be able to do it. Well.

the-sober-butterfly_5_02-03-2025_202146:

11.

squadcaster-7i30_4_02-03-2025_202147:

Yeah. Yeah.

the-sober-butterfly_2_01-08-2025_164227:

And now a quick word from our partners.

the-sober-butterfly_25_12-24-2024_142305:

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the-sober-butterfly_6_02-03-2025_205511:

Okay, Jasmine, so just winding, winding down here. Winding down, well, winding down here. Um, habits die hard. Um, I was just wondering from you, have you created space in your life? Because one of the. Topics and questions I get asked the most about on this podcast is love relationships. And it sounds like your relationship itself has drastically improved. It sounds like you've done a ton of work and are still doing said work. It sounds like your relationship with your kids has grown and it's authentic to you and your parenting style. And as mentioned like you depersonalize a lot of things for the sake of your children and I feel like the ultimate, not the ultimate form, but like a lot of parents, like that's a part of. Being a parent, right? Sacrifice and like doing things for the good and the benefit of your children. But what about Jasmine, like in terms of romantic relationships, are you open to dating? Are you dating? Have you healed from some of the trauma that you've experienced with your ex or exes in the past?

squadcaster-7i30_5_02-03-2025_205512:

Yeah, so wait. I am open to dating. I am. I, I've made attempts and I'll, I'll try for a little, and then I just don't try at all. Then I try for a little, um, there is somebody in my life who's taken up some space, um, yet to like, meet my daughters, and I don't even know if that's gonna happen. But I, I do enjoy his company. I feel very safe with him. Um, yeah. And, uh, don't know. I'm, I'm enjoying him, you know, for, for now. So we'll see.

the-sober-butterfly_6_02-03-2025_205511:

Does he honor your sobriety? Is he I'm, I'm at like, I feel like I know the answer. It's kind of rhetorical because I can tell how seriously you take your sobriety, but he's someone that understands and respects your sobriety and recovery.

squadcaster-7i30_5_02-03-2025_205512:

I wouldn't necessarily say he understands. I don't think he fully like

the-sober-butterfly_6_02-03-2025_205511:

Okay.

squadcaster-7i30_5_02-03-2025_205512:

of like what it looks like and why, right? For anybody really. But he does not put any pressure on me. He respects it like, Hey, this is something that she doesn't do. This is a boundary she set for herself. Like cool. Like he

the-sober-butterfly_6_02-03-2025_205511:

Okay. Okay.

squadcaster-7i30_5_02-03-2025_205512:

he's not a man of ma many, many words, but

the-sober-butterfly_6_02-03-2025_205511:

Okay.

squadcaster-7i30_5_02-03-2025_205512:

not, um, he doesn't question if I say This is where I'm at, this is what I'm doing. He's not like, well, why don't you drink and da da da. And like,

the-sober-butterfly_6_02-03-2025_205511:

Okay.

squadcaster-7i30_5_02-03-2025_205512:

why I don't drink, but he doesn't push me about it. He just respects

the-sober-butterfly_6_02-03-2025_205511:

Okay.

squadcaster-7i30_5_02-03-2025_205512:

So I don't think he understands. And it's not necessarily something that like he needs to fully understand'cause it's my own, my own experience. But he respects my values and my choices. Um, and I will say as far as my dating has. Has gone. I was very intentional about working on also my relationship to sex. Um, because I historically again, wanted to be in a relationship so I could have sex as much as I wanted. Right. And there's not necessarily anything wrong with that, but not if you're using it as a, a scapegoat for all of your sufferings. Um. I took, uh, over a year of like no sex, no dating, no relationships. And then, you know, I met somebody through a friend and so I was like, oh, okay, we'll see. You know, and a little bit of that and he was so great. But what I will say that came out of also sobriety for me was that I can look back on my relationship timeline and I can see that every man served a different purpose. So like. this guy was super serious and rigid, so this guy had to be like super goofy and like unhinged. Then this guy was a drug dealer and so he was unhealthy, right? But then he used to like this, you have to go, right, right. I have to go to the business guy now who now is literally beating me, but who cares? He got a business and he looks right on paper and everybody loves him and whatever. then I had to go from that to like somebody who loves me so much and is love bombing me like. All these men, it didn't matter how many red flags they had, as long as they met, they were, as long as they didn't trigger this thing in me. And they, I didn't realize this at the time, but they all were a little bit, they were all vastly different than the person before they were serving some purpose. If I had never laughed with you, I was gonna take somebody who could never be serious if I had never been able to like, get anything done with you and like be, be an adult with you. I was gonna be with somebody who had no personality, who was always this and always structured and so. I've learned in my sobriety that like number one, it's okay if you date him and he's not the love of your life and you guys don't get married and with stuff into the sun and have another third baby. It's okay.

the-sober-butterfly_6_02-03-2025_205511:

Amen.

squadcaster-7i30_5_02-03-2025_205512:

Right? And

the-sober-butterfly_6_02-03-2025_205511:

Yep.

squadcaster-7i30_5_02-03-2025_205512:

I also had to learn that. It's okay to decide, no, I don't like that about you. And then that's it. You don't have to go explaining it. You don't have to go trying to change it. You don't have to go trying to be like, well, I like this about him. You don't have to start weighing your options, like you're adding shit to your Chipotle. Just you don't like it. You know? Like it's okay. Um, and then the last thing is like, had to really, really accept the fact that. I am not alone because there's something functioning wrong with me. You know, I am alone because am dedicated and committed to rebuilding or just even building my life in the first place, and I've never, I. myself in the capacity that I have, and I'm grateful for the time that I've had to pour into my daughters instead of, I'm glad I didn't find the love of my life six months after I left my ex-husband, because I wouldn't have had I, no matter how much I love my girls and how much this person would've been great, I still wouldn't have been able to pour into them

the-sober-butterfly_6_02-03-2025_205511:

Mm-hmm.

squadcaster-7i30_5_02-03-2025_205512:

I have been able to. And so I I have really seriously learned that like I also need to keep showing up as the woman that I am and building things I wanna build so I can meet a person who I wanna, I can meet a mirror. You know, I don't want the mirror to be this bad reflection of me in the past. I want it to be this reflection of me now. And I forget the last part that I was gonna say. But, um, as I've been navigating relationships, I have learned that like I don't need anybody for

the-sober-butterfly_6_02-03-2025_205511:

Right.

squadcaster-7i30_5_02-03-2025_205512:

I have wants and desires that I'm, I'm now learning like how to still do it just'cause I want it.

the-sober-butterfly_6_02-03-2025_205511:

Right.

squadcaster-7i30_5_02-03-2025_205512:

I don't need to, I won't. Everything has been like a need.'cause I've been so busy trying to like, get my feet off the, out of the cement. Like I've been trying to rebuild something and, um, scaling'em out. And as my one friend would say, I'm scaling'em out with two kids on my back. Like, I can't afford a lot of things

the-sober-butterfly_6_02-03-2025_205511:

Yeah.

squadcaster-7i30_5_02-03-2025_205512:

emotionally. And so now that I've kind of feel like I've, reached a good place and I'm ready to keep climbing, but now I'm like, I'm in a really beautiful place in my life and my careers. I would love to meet somebody, climb with them the next mountaintop with our daughters, like hand in hand and create something really beautiful and special. And, you know, I, I've always believed in love. I just didn't have a clue what it was,'cause I hadn't, none of

the-sober-butterfly_6_02-03-2025_205511:

Right,

squadcaster-7i30_5_02-03-2025_205512:

you

the-sober-butterfly_6_02-03-2025_205511:

right. Or I think maybe. What you mentioned before, the version of love that you believed in wasn't real, like this romanticized, idealized version of love for the fairy books where it's like, yeah, I'm gonna meet my prince Charming and sail away in, you know, into the sunset where like the realities of life don't really. Like lend itself to that. And like the thing about fairytales truthfully is like we don't get to see what happens after happily ever after, right? So it's like when, when things get real, life gets real. I think that's the love that I'm seeking, where it's like, it stands the test of time. And for many years, going back to like conflating. Sex and like my, my reasoning to have sex for that connection, it was always about like intensity versus intimacy. And like, I was confusing the two, like, I was like, oh, like everything had to be hard and fast. Like that's just how I live my life as well. And now I'm seeking like true intimacy. And to your point, like not every guy needs to, or every relationship needs to fulfill this like deep seated urge within me. It's like. I can see people at face value. That's the clar clarity that pervades through all aspects of my life. Like I can see things for what they are and I can discern if I want to continue seeing this person for who they are or move on. And I, I, before, I think I was so invested in like just showing up as a version of self that. Someone else would like, like whether that was true or authentic to me or not. Like I just wanted to be someone that someone else chose and liked and now I don't do that. And like, that's what I was thinking too when you were sharing about like the lies that we tell other people. I think the true lies, um, were worse. I told myself like, I can be this version of self for other people. And now I'm just like, well, first of all, who are you? Like, do the work there and then yeah, like it's okay. You don't have to be everyone's cup of tea. Like not everyone needs to like you

squadcaster-7i30_5_02-03-2025_205512:

Yes.

the-sober-butterfly_6_02-03-2025_205511:

okay, and I don't need to like everyone else either. And it's fine. Everything's fine. There's billions of people on the planet.

squadcaster-7i30_5_02-03-2025_205512:

Yeah. I love, everything's fine. The kids, everything's fine.

the-sober-butterfly_6_02-03-2025_205511:

Right.

squadcaster-7i30_5_02-03-2025_205512:

Yeah.

the-sober-butterfly_6_02-03-2025_205511:

I love this conversation so much. one last question before you go. what is the most integral part or peace or tool when it comes to your sobriety? What is something that you cannot live without, that you feel like has? I don't wanna say live without that sounds very dra dramatic. What is one thing, what is one aspect? Yes. What is an aspect of your sobriety? Just something that has really helped you stay grounded in this work that you're doing on yourself.

squadcaster-7i30_5_02-03-2025_205512:

Um, for me, movement has

the-sober-butterfly_6_02-03-2025_205511:

Uh.

squadcaster-7i30_5_02-03-2025_205512:

oh my gosh. Like, I know, I see you too on social media. Like I know movement for you is a lot meaningful. Um, I. I have to move my body. I have to be very mindful of like, to breathe.'cause that was another thing I would realize. Like, oh, I haven't taken a breath and I'm in there. You know, like,

the-sober-butterfly_6_02-03-2025_205511:

Like you can feel the, yeah.

squadcaster-7i30_5_02-03-2025_205512:

Yes. So a lot of breathing. Um, yoga has become really important to me because it adds all the components. It adds mind, body, spirit, and the movement. Um, so I would definitely say movement. And I really truly do my best to stay mindful of like. This is not the life that you thought you'd have, but this is the most beautiful life that you have ever had. You know? And if this is as beautiful as it gets, well good, God damn. Lucky me. You know what I mean? Like

the-sober-butterfly_6_02-03-2025_205511:

Yeah.

squadcaster-7i30_5_02-03-2025_205512:

I try to stay in a space of gratitude because I have noticed one of the biggest shifts for me to help me have a healthy sobriety is that. I have to have perspectives that are positive, you know,

the-sober-butterfly_6_02-03-2025_205511:

Right.

squadcaster-7i30_5_02-03-2025_205512:

it all in all reflect the actual situation. You know, I'm not catastrophizing, nor am I, existing in this like super fear that freezes me, that used to freeze me. And, um, I also think that that saying, time heals all wounds. Like sure, that's facts, right? But I have learned that time and work heal all wounds.

the-sober-butterfly_6_02-03-2025_205511:

Right.

squadcaster-7i30_5_02-03-2025_205512:

in time for the next five years and have not done a damn thing. I've been the same

the-sober-butterfly_6_02-03-2025_205511:

Mm-hmm.

squadcaster-7i30_5_02-03-2025_205512:

I get to stuff left him and you know, stop drinking. But if I just, I hate the world. The world hates me. I'm angry because

the-sober-butterfly_6_02-03-2025_205511:

Yeah.

squadcaster-7i30_5_02-03-2025_205512:

you know, and I'm sad. And I'm sad and you should be sad too. And Misery's

the-sober-butterfly_6_02-03-2025_205511:

Right.

squadcaster-7i30_5_02-03-2025_205512:

and I could have remain this

the-sober-butterfly_6_02-03-2025_205511:

Hurt people. Hurt people. Yeah.

squadcaster-7i30_5_02-03-2025_205512:

Uh, that is like my favorite, which is where I can find grace a lot for the father of my children, my ex-husband. Like,'cause I

the-sober-butterfly_6_02-03-2025_205511:

Mm-hmm.

squadcaster-7i30_5_02-03-2025_205512:

I, I say that all the time. Hurt people. Hurt people and misery loves company whether they know it or not. And like all these things are very true. And so the biggest things are the movement and the perspective. I don't do myself justice if I start down the rabbit hole of these negative thoughts. So I am very mindful of like, that's not accurate, Jas. Like, it, it can be a valid feeling in this particular circumstance situation, but now you are taking the inch that this feeling has caused you and you're adding a mile and then you're adding

the-sober-butterfly_6_02-03-2025_205511:

Spiraling.

squadcaster-7i30_5_02-03-2025_205512:

are not for Gump. Like, stop.

the-sober-butterfly_6_02-03-2025_205511:

Yes. Slow down.

squadcaster-7i30_5_02-03-2025_205512:

Yeah, take the breath,

the-sober-butterfly_6_02-03-2025_205511:

Yeah.

squadcaster-7i30_5_02-03-2025_205512:

move

the-sober-butterfly_6_02-03-2025_205511:

And that's where the movement comes into play, right? Especially when you're doing the breathing exercises or you're practicing yoga, or you're in your body and you are forcing yourself to be present in this moment. Because to your point, the catastrophizing is very easy to do. And the next thing you know, you're in this deep hole and it's like the sun complace, like, how do I get out of here? How did I get here? But it, it starts with a seed like that one thought, which can be true, right? It could be. Like if someone calls you stupid. Yeah, of course. I'm gonna be like, what the hell? Like now I, I feel like I can carry that and that can lead me to many different places. And then ultimately going back to gaslighting, like that's when you start to believe it, right? Because you've allowed this thought to grow into something really. Insi, insi insidious,

squadcaster-7i30_5_02-03-2025_205512:

Yeah,

the-sober-butterfly_6_02-03-2025_205511:

and. Um,

squadcaster-7i30_5_02-03-2025_205512:

I

the-sober-butterfly_6_02-03-2025_205511:

yeah, insidious and like untrue for the most part. And so, yeah, I, I relate to so much of what you shared movement and mindfulness, like being very careful about what you tell yourself,

squadcaster-7i30_5_02-03-2025_205512:

Yeah. How

the-sober-butterfly_6_02-03-2025_205511:

um, because

squadcaster-7i30_5_02-03-2025_205512:

taco?

the-sober-butterfly_6_02-03-2025_205511:

can control that. How far you let the thought go.

squadcaster-7i30_5_02-03-2025_205512:

I work in a space of recovery and I teach yoga, so I

the-sober-butterfly_6_02-03-2025_205511:

That's beautiful.

squadcaster-7i30_5_02-03-2025_205512:

like these beautiful pockets, right? But I, I, I was able to recognize, like point in my sobriety I was struggling. Like I was, I didn't necessarily wanna drink, but I kind of wanted to blow up my life. I kind of wanted to do Selena's hotel room with the boyfriend and just start. right.

the-sober-butterfly_6_02-03-2025_205511:

Yep.

squadcaster-7i30_5_02-03-2025_205512:

aspect I wanted to trash my house, trash my office. Like, just,

the-sober-butterfly_6_02-03-2025_205511:

Mm-hmm.

squadcaster-7i30_5_02-03-2025_205512:

crazy. And, um, I had this period

the-sober-butterfly_6_02-03-2025_205511:

By the way, I think we're accustomed to the chaos. Like

squadcaster-7i30_5_02-03-2025_205512:

Oh yeah.

the-sober-butterfly_6_02-03-2025_205511:

you lived in that mind or that like lifestyle for so long, it's like, whoa, everything's fine. Like that's a problem like.

squadcaster-7i30_5_02-03-2025_205512:

Well, and I had this, I was starting to feel what I would equate to envy for, for clients who. Would come in and tell me their stories and they were blowing up their lives here and dropping bombs here. And I was romanticizing, like sitting in the woods and getting high for days. And I was like, that just sounds so freeing. Like, I mean,

the-sober-butterfly_6_02-03-2025_205511:

Mm-hmm.

squadcaster-7i30_5_02-03-2025_205512:

I know the thoughts are like what went,

the-sober-butterfly_6_02-03-2025_205511:

Yeah.

squadcaster-7i30_5_02-03-2025_205512:

I went away from the first thought, but I had it. And I, that was happening more and more. And I remember I called, um, like by sponsor and I said to her, I am really far removed. I'm afraid that I can't go back. I haven't drank. Right. I haven't used a substance, but I'm, I'm far out, and I was recently saying this to my brother'cause he was going through his own experiences and I was like, I feel like am out on the middle at the edge of the plank. Right. And now like the risk is. I jump like I'm, I, I'm, so, I walked myself out here now because I'm so overwhelmed. I'm so stressed. I'm not moving my body, I'm not talking to people. I'm not sharing what's really going on. Everything's fine. I'm going back to these things that were keeping me like this, and I'm at the plank now at the edge, and. I don't wanna jump, I don't wanna blow my life. I don't wanna drink. I don't even like the thought of alcohol. Like,

the-sober-butterfly_6_02-03-2025_205511:

Right.

squadcaster-7i30_5_02-03-2025_205512:

wanna do any of that, yet I'm afraid to walk back. You know? I'm literally afraid that this plank is rocky and this plank, I mean, it's wobbly. It's, it's in the middle of the ocean. It's bopping up and no, I'm like, what I was saying to my brother, I'm like, but something that, and to my clients at the office in a recovery group, I said. I'm fortunate to now have the perspective of, yes, I'm on the plank, but every time I show up today at the office and I treat you with kindness and respect, that's a baby step back to my back to the middle boat every time. I don't react to my children in a way that doesn't feel like the mother I wanna be. That's to walk closer to the middle of the boat and in the middle of the boat. Community. Our solutions and abundance

the-sober-butterfly_6_02-03-2025_205511:

Right.

squadcaster-7i30_5_02-03-2025_205512:

are, you know, somebody that will literally and figuratively hold me, you know,

the-sober-butterfly_6_02-03-2025_205511:

Mm-hmm.

squadcaster-7i30_5_02-03-2025_205512:

um, the music that makes you laugh and cry are the yoga classes are, you know, the stern like, Jasmine, what are you doing? Like, are the reality checks? The middle of the boat is so great and I'm in the middle of the plank and yeah, it's rocky and I so can risk now. Like, oops, I fell off the plank and that's essentially, oops, I blew up my life. However, I know now from, from being, you know, time in my, um, recovery and like on things with myself. I know now the people and the things that are on this boat. I articulate where I'm at, if I'm honest with myself first, and then I'm able to share and be, and be vulnerable and give myself grace and give somebody access to these vulnerabilities, they're going to say, baby girl, here is a metal bar. Hold onto this as you walk

the-sober-butterfly_6_02-03-2025_205511:

Yeah. Yeah.

squadcaster-7i30_5_02-03-2025_205512:

know, like, so I was just like saying to him could, I'm not frozen by fear anymore. You know? I'm very confident now that not only does my relationship with my higher power, I. It is, it is, um, it's like a rainbow. It's, it's, it's, it's bright and it's beautiful and it's glittery and I don't how, I can't, I perfectly identify it in, into a book or into a, scripture or into somebody else's opinion, but mine is rich. I feel mine, you know?

the-sober-butterfly_6_02-03-2025_205511:

Mm-hmm.

squadcaster-7i30_5_02-03-2025_205512:

and I'll end kind of. S part with, back to like, when I thought my heartbreak open, my yoga mentor, a beautiful, you know, also survivor, independent woman, like, Latina, like just fed veteran. Like this person who I just have the, a lot of admiration and respect for, she leads also beautiful meditations in yoga. And one day she was, she did a lot of heart openers and every time I'm crying in these heart openers and I still sometimes do, but she's leading this beautiful meditation and she's like, you know. There's this little, you know, flower inside of Russell and you know, we have to open our hearts and like with that flower and let it grow. And it came over me and I like came outta the meditation. I just went immediately to my journal and I'm crying and I'm like, my whole life, my heart has been breaking as a little girl, being sexually abused. You know, growing up in violence, being in the womb, and my mom experiencing like. Being beaten, you know, and working several jobs and being poor. Like, all of my, my life, my heart has been like little cracks in it and I just keep sewing, you know? Or like maybe the nice babysitter sos or the boyfriend who tried to help me sews, or the stranger, the Jehovahs Witness I met when I was blacked out, when I was 20 sos. You know, like

the-sober-butterfly_6_02-03-2025_205511:

Mm-hmm.

squadcaster-7i30_5_02-03-2025_205512:

I kept trying to sew it, her eat back together, like because she can't break open. She's too fragile, you know, or it's dangerous.

the-sober-butterfly_6_02-03-2025_205511:

Mm-hmm.

squadcaster-7i30_5_02-03-2025_205512:

And after my experience in treatment and feeling it break open, you know that little flower that had been in there this entire time, this little beautiful bud, I just kept sewing it back in there. I didn't give it an opportunity to grow, to blossom. And now it's like. This whole time in sobriety, I have been so, so, so beautifully, gracefully. Oh, just like lovingly. Strong hold, like held together by incredible women in my life. And so like I visually can see these women just like holding this heart up of mine as I've been slowly sewing it back together. And as I'm slowly sewing, the flower has blossomed and more flowers have blossomed. And I feel like, wow, you are so alive and well. Because to be alive is one thing, and then to be well is a whole other entity of

the-sober-butterfly_6_02-03-2025_205511:

Right.

squadcaster-7i30_5_02-03-2025_205512:

that works, right? And so recognizing that it doesn't make me feel like. these broken parts, all this trial and error, it makes me feel like I had to go through these experiences so that the flowers that came out of my heart that I kept on trying to hurry and keep these little buds small and, unimportant to me. I had to break open. They had to fully blossom. And now I always have that little opening where they've made space, but. Beautiful. More for love and light to pour in, you know, but that meditation again gave me the perspective shift that I needed, which is why I value being in spaces where people. Have the capacity to not only hold space, but create space containers to be safe spaces for people, which is why I value that so much in who I am, how I show up to people. But that is something I learned from my community. I didn't learn that growing up as a child. I didn't learn that inherently. I think I inherently am a nurturer and empath, but I didn't learn what to do with those things, you know?

the-sober-butterfly_6_02-03-2025_205511:

That is so beautiful. Like, literally having chills. Jasmine, um, thank you so much for sharing your message and speaking of light and holding space. Like I've learned so much from you and I feel like you have so much to share and so much value to bring to folks at home. So thank you for coming on today. If someone wants to connect with you, I know that you are a yoga instructor, I know that you work in recovery as mentioned, so can you let people know at home if they wanna connect with jazz, how can they find you?

squadcaster-7i30_5_02-03-2025_205512:

Okay. I love that. Um, so I have social media. Um, I'm not so good on like business things, which I'm working on y'all. but my social media, I have it in my Insta and you can always pop a message over there with me. Um, my Insta is shanae dot jasmine, and it's, uh, C-H-A-N-A-E, period, Jasmine, J-A-S-M-I-N-E. And I have also, a business page called Renewed Life. And that whole, concept behind this page, it's there, it's mine, but I haven't. I haven't loved on it enough yet. is just gonna be kind of an encompassing of all of these beautiful ingredients that I've built, this like healthier life in, and it's renewed like RE and then the word nude

the-sober-butterfly_6_02-03-2025_205511:

Okay. I'm gonna drop all of that in the show notes for folks at home to find you easily. Yeah, like I'll just make it easy. Um, I'll put it in the show notes. Thank you so much, Jasmine, and like I said, like you've been such an inspiration. Your story is so beautiful and I connected so much to everything that you've shared. So thank you for coming on The Sober Butterfly, and you're welcome anytime like truly,

squadcaster-7i30_5_02-03-2025_205512:

Thank you, Nadine. I loved it. It was an honor and my pleasure and very fun. So it was cool. Thank you. I appreciate you.

the-sober-butterfly_19_03-05-2025_175953:

Wow. I mean, what an incredibly raw and powerful conversation with Jasmine. Her story is a reminder that healing isn't linear, but it is possible from her, you know, early struggles with alcohol to the pivotal moment when she realized. She was in an abusive relationship. And a few key takeaways from today's episode. I think trauma doesn't just disappear. It follows you into adulthood unless you actively work through it. Another key takeaway for me was even if life looks perfect on the outside. You never know what someone is going through behind closed doors, Jasmine also reminded us that clarity is everything. Therapy and sobriety gave Jasmine and me the strength to step away from toxicity and rebuild a life that we truly deserve. And then lastly, healing is about reclaiming yourself. Your needs, your boundaries, and your joy. If this episode resonated with you, please take a moment to rate, review, and share the Sober Butterfly Podcast. Your support helps us reach more women and more people who need these conversations. Don't forget to follow the show so that you never miss an episode. And before you go, I just want to plug our book of the Month for March, which is Women Who Run With the Wolves. This is by Clarissa Pin Estes, and this book is all about tapping into your wild, intuitive, feminine energy. You know that powerful self that lives within us, which I think is so fitting for Women's History Month. So make sure you grab your copy using the link in the show notes. Thank you all for being here, for listening and for showing up. For yourself. I love you butterflies. Stay safe, stay sober, and stay beautiful. I'll see you next Friday. Bye.