Sarah From She Stays Sober: Talking Depression, Medication & Mental Health Stigma in Recovery

In this raw and powerful episode of The Sober Butterfly Podcast, host Nadine sits down with Sarah from She Stays Sober for a deeply personal conversation about what sobriety really looks like behind the highlight reels.

Sarah shares her journey to sobriety—getting sober in March 2020 at the height of the pandemic, a time when many people’s drinking escalated. We explore what life looked like in her drinking days, what triggered her decision to stop, and how her recovery has evolved.

This episode also gets honest about mental health in sobriety. Both Nadine and Sarah open up about living with depression—even while sober—and the hard truth that recovery doesn't magically erase mental illness. They also dive into the stigma around taking prescribed medications or controlled substances for mental health, especially within the sober community.

If you’ve ever wondered, “Am I doing recovery wrong because I’m still struggling?”—this conversation is for you.

✨ In this episode, we discuss:

• Sarah’s unique journey to sobriety during the pandemic
• What life looked like before sobriety
• Living with depression in sobriety
• The stigma around taking medication for mental health
• The importance of nuance, compassion, and staying open
• Reframing what “being sober” really means
• Finding community and sharing the messy middle of healing

🎧 Tune in now on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Don’t forget to rate, review, and share the episode to help others discover the show.

Follow the guests & resources mentioned:
@shesstayssober
@the.soberbutterfly @soberbutterflypodcast

Resources Mentioned in the Episode 📘

• Alan Carr's Easy Way To Quit Smoking

Partners

🌿  Sakara –Use Code TSBHEALTHSAKARA for a 20% off your first order Check it out  

Transcript

the-sober-butterfly_2_06-20-2025_071005: 0:01

​Hello. Hello, beautiful butterflies and welcome back to the Sober Butterfly Podcast. I am your host, Nadine, and today's episode is one I've been looking forward to for a long time, and I feel like it's so timely in just how I've been feeling in this season of life. Last week I confessed on the show with the solo episode, confessions of an Alcoholic, three Big Reveals, and my second confession was around my mental health it's just a constant reminder for me that these moments of vulnerability, when I'm scared, when my voice is shaking, when I don't feel comfortable is when I need to speak louder is when I need to go there. And I just wanna say thank you to everyone. Thank you for listening to the show. Thank you for being a part of this community. Thank you for reaching out to me. I received an outpouring more than I was expecting, an outpouring of love and support. People reached out to me, which. A lets me know that people are actually listening to the show. So amazing. But B, people care. Like people care and like no one is a mind reader. You have to tell people how you feel. You have, show them what you need. How they can help you and me. Suffering in silence was what kept me sick for so long with my addiction, but also me suffering through this depressive episode has reminded me just how important it is to speak up, to be vulnerable, and inadvertently without realizing, you could be helping someone just by sharing out loud what you're going through. Because some of the conversations I had surprisingly was me connecting with people I'm super close with that I thought I knew inside and out that are also revealing these big things because I shared on this podcast what I'm going through, so you never know. I just wanted to open with saying, you know, thank you and quick update life update since last week. This is day five of me being nicotine free. I have not smoked a cigarette since. Sunday and today is Friday, so I am super proud of myself. I'm gonna give you guys a full update as to like how I have kicked this habit, because for me, I've kicked this addiction. I've decided just like how I decided to get sober, like i'm not drinking anymore. I'm not smoking anymore. I'm done. So I will give you a full report and update, but just know that book I referenced last week, how to easily quit Smoking. Game Changer, because I've been doing it without nicotine patches, without gum. Just listen to that book if you were struggling with any type of physical dependency on a substance. Okay. Moving ahead. This week's episode is incredible. So we're joined with the amazing Sarah from she stay sober. Someone that I actually met briefly last summer when we both did a live taping of tiana's show Beyond the Bottle. I'm gonna link that in the show notes. Her episode is incredible and Tiana's also a friend of the Sober Butterfly. And I will also link her episode. But anyway, from that brief moment that I met Sarah and then listened to her episode on Tiana's show, I knew that I had to bring her on the podcast because her story, her insight, her honesty, just so powerful. So part one of our convo today, Sarah and I are just chatting. We're learning more about what her drinking days look like before getting sober. I think what's uniquely special about Sarah's story is that she actually quit drinking March of 2020, and we know that's the very beginning of the pandemic. A time when most people's drinking spiraled. Sarah chose to get sober then, and total uncertainty. And I think that's such a testament to her strength and intuition. And then we kind of shift into something deeply personal for both of us around Mental health. So Sarah and I get super open about being in the thick of depression and what a depressive episode can look like and how that can impact someone's sobriety or recovery, just life in general. And we even get into like more taboo topics in both society and sobriety, and it's around taking prescribed medications. Or substances for mental health. Now, this part of the convo is super important because there's just still so much stigma and we are here to bust that open with truth and compassion. So make sure you stay tuned whether you are deep in sobriety just starting or simply sober. Curious, this one is for you. Let's get into it.

the-sober-butterfly_12_06-13-2025_174056: 4:44

Hello, hello, and welcome to the Sober Butterfly Podcast. Today we are joined with a very special guest. We have Sarah here with she Stays Sober on Instagram. Have a lisp that's a tongue twister for me. She stays sober. Sarah from, she stays sober. I'm say that like 10 times. So something that really stands out to me though that I love about your page is I do feel like you get real, like aesthetically too. I love. Like the, is it Chrome? I can't even describe like the full aesthetics, but it's like blurred. It's really beautiful. But beyond the aesthetics, your messaging is deep and it's very much like, yeah, I'm gonna be honest about mental health. I'm gonna talk about depressive episodes and like how I'm coping and working through those things. So do you mind just telling us a little bit about who you are, Sarah, and what is She stays sober.

sarah_2_06-13-2025_174106: 5:35

Yeah, of course. So I'm Sarah. I'm a recovering alcoholic and addict. I am 33 living in Brooklyn. I just hit my five years of sobriety in March, so that was very exciting. Yeah, so

the-sober-butterfly_12_06-13-2025_174056: 5:49

Yay.

sarah_2_06-13-2025_174106: 5:49

super excited about that. It's been a long journey. It feels like longer, but I think everybody says that. And yeah, she stays sober. For me, what it is now, it's mainly a social presence on Instagram primarily, and it's just a community and a support for other people that are in. Recovery, sobriety, people that might be struggling with their mental health. I just want it to be kind of a hub for people that they can go to and find support and connect with each other. And that's what it's grown into, which has been great.

the-sober-butterfly_12_06-13-2025_174056: 6:24

Thank you for sharing that, and we have some parallels there. I. Am Oh, I was gonna say I'm 33. I keep forgetting Sarah. I'm 34. I turned 34 in March. I always wanna be like, I'm 33. This is the second time I've done this in like the last week. I'm 34, I am coming up to four years next month. So congrats on your five years. That is in incredible. I can imagine. It's been a journey and I would love to get into a bit more of your story and learning what life looked like for you, especially because you're based in New York and I feel like New York is just a very special place where it can be incredible for, you know, building community and making connections and just having so much at our disposal, at our fingertips. But in that same breath, it's also like there's so much at our disposal, at our fingertips, and since I'm doing the math here, you've been sober for five years. How long have you been in the city?

sarah_2_06-13-2025_174106: 7:17

I've been in the city for over 10, so I've been here

the-sober-butterfly_12_06-13-2025_174056: 7:20

Yeah.

sarah_2_06-13-2025_174106: 7:20

a while, so it's been like half and half at this point. Really?

the-sober-butterfly_12_06-13-2025_174056: 7:24

I wanna learn a little bit more about what life looked like for you, if you don't mind sharing before getting sober five years ago. Back in March of 20. Can I do quick math? 2020. That's right before the pandemic. So can you share a little bit about what your life looked like? What led you to sobriety?

sarah_2_06-13-2025_174106: 7:41

yeah, of course. I started drinking really young. I was a teenager. I'm from a small town and there's like nothing else to do besides like drink when you get to high school, which sounds terrible. And also the people. That are drinking are the same people you know you're hanging out with all the time and they're athletes and they're this and they're that and like, so there's like social pressure there and that's like how it started for me. But it wasn't to me, I would not have identified it at that point in my life as drinking problematically or drinking alcoholically. That didn't happen until I got into when I really started using. Alcohol and using just like, as a tool to of like navigate through my entire life and all of my emotions. I did well in school. I think about it now and I like, don't know but I did, like I got through school, it was fine, but all I cared about was drinking. Like it was the only thing I ever wanted to do. I was always following it around. Looking for it, chasing it. And I think that's when my drinking turned super dark as well.'cause I learned to basically out as a coping mechanism as well. Like I mostly drank with that. mind is the end goal. Like I drank to blackout for most of college just to deal with things I did not know how to deal with or did not wanna speak about, especially mental health wise. And now, I mean, I very well know that it's not a good path to choose. But yeah, I did that all through college. And then moving here, it just got. Worse and more accessible. Like I went to a state school so it was really accessible. Like even when I was underage, it's like you always had somebody that could buy you something

the-sober-butterfly_12_06-13-2025_174056: 9:36

Yeah.

sarah_2_06-13-2025_174106: 9:37

like, yeah, like it was just so easy. And then moving here, obviously was of age and so much of, and I don't know if it's still like this now when you enter the workforce, but like when I did, and I'm sure when you did, like so much of it revolved around happy hour and. Drinking with your coworkers. Like I always had alcohol in the office and it was weird if you didn't have alcohol in your

the-sober-butterfly_12_06-13-2025_174056: 10:02

Mm-hmm.

sarah_2_06-13-2025_174106: 10:02

And so it was really easy to hide and that was exciting to me. I was like, Ooh, like everybody's drinking at 4:00 PM in the office so I can do that. And it's not weird. Like it's so easy to hide in New York, which is funny'cause it's like. Sometimes I feel so like alone and like focused on. And then other times it's like you really can do anything you want and nobody but you notices. Which is like really wild. Like not even your like you can hide just so much. And so I think New York for me was like super enabling. I would never have said I was an addict then, ever. I didn't even say it when I first got sober, but now it's very easy to recognize like what I was doing. But yeah, my whole social life revolved around alcohol and my professional life revolved around it. Like it was how you networked and how you got to know people. Like I would be fully lying if I said that, like. didn't somehow benefit me professionally because it did, like I met certain people and became friends with certain people and did things with certain people. And it's like, you keep those people close and it doesn't necessarily mean that it's healthy, but that's kind of how it escalated for me here. And that just kind of like repeated itself for years. Like, there's nothing special to my story. It's like it just was. This constant cycle of like binge drinking. I was a huge

the-sober-butterfly_12_06-13-2025_174056: 11:34

Yeah.

sarah_2_06-13-2025_174106: 11:35

I wasn't an everyday drinker. Like there was probably some weeks in my life where that happened, but

the-sober-butterfly_12_06-13-2025_174056: 11:40

Yeah.

sarah_2_06-13-2025_174106: 11:41

mainly just a binge drinker miserable when I wasn't drinking. And so that continued, continued, continued. And it just got to the point where. I realized like my life was just at a pause, like nothing had blown up. I didn't lose my job, I didn't my relationship. I had not lost my family. Like were mad at me like pretty often, but like nothing imploded or exploded, but like nothing was getting better either. And knowing that I was like, I don't wanna be here. I was always hungover. I was not a

the-sober-butterfly_12_06-13-2025_174056: 12:17

Yeah.

sarah_2_06-13-2025_174106: 12:18

I wasn't a good friend. I wasn't a good fiance at that time. I only was concerned about myself. Like alcoholics are really selfish.

the-sober-butterfly_12_06-13-2025_174056: 12:28

Yeah. Yeah.

sarah_2_06-13-2025_174106: 12:29

My priority was me and alcohol and I didn't want that to keep happening. When I think about the day that I stopped drinking, like a lot of people always ask like, you know, like, what

the-sober-butterfly_12_06-13-2025_174056: 12:41

You have.

sarah_2_06-13-2025_174106: 12:43

Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And like I did, it was just another rock bottom. Like I been like up and down the hills for 15 years, whatever it was, and it was just another dip. Like I was in a dip and woke up still drunk. Still kind of high, absolutely miserable in all my clothes from the night before, and I was just so, I was always so disgusted with myself. But this morning I was like particularly disgusted with myself

the-sober-butterfly_12_06-13-2025_174056: 13:13

Mm-hmm.

sarah_2_06-13-2025_174106: 13:14

and it was the first time I felt bad for myself. I was like, this is sad. Like what you're doing is sad Are not happy, obviously I was finally able to recognize that I was not happy'cause I would've told you till I was blue in the face. Like, I'm having a time of my life, like I

the-sober-butterfly_12_06-13-2025_174056: 13:30

Yeah.

sarah_2_06-13-2025_174106: 13:31

York. You know, like it's

the-sober-butterfly_12_06-13-2025_174056: 13:32

Yeah.

sarah_2_06-13-2025_174106: 13:32

ever. Everything's great. And it was not great

the-sober-butterfly_12_06-13-2025_174056: 13:36

Yeah.

sarah_2_06-13-2025_174106: 13:36

you know, I wasn't doing anything to make it better. So yeah, like I didn't have like a big crashing out. I just a day where, I don't know what it was, but I. Paused and looked at myself and was like, I don't want this anymore and I'm not gonna live much longer if I keep doing this either. And I didn't want that either. That's what got me to getting sober. I know it was very long and windy, but that's where,

the-sober-butterfly_12_06-13-2025_174056: 14:03

No, it was long

sarah_2_06-13-2025_174106: 14:05

there.

the-sober-butterfly_12_06-13-2025_174056: 14:05

but relatable because that's what it is. It's not this linear, very clear line that's like, oh, I was an alcoholic or I was drinking too much and then, oh, I just realized that I need to quit. It very much like takes on many different turns and twists and so many parts of your story. I. Connected to, like when you mentioned all you wanted to do was drink, that was me. That rite of passage going from high school to college and then to New York City and I loved when you mentioned Specific to New York, like it's obviously super crowded here. There's so much happening, but like you can hide in plain sight. There's never really moments when you're like, alone, alone in New York. Like I, I actually crave those days when I can go outside and no one's there and I'm like, wow, that's like 4:00 AM no one's here. But ultimately, like you are always around people, but just because you're around people doesn't necessarily mean that they can see you and see what you're really going through. And I think so much. So much of my drinking personally was like putting on this persona as though like, yeah, everything's fine, everything's good, but intuitively recognizing that something was wrong and if I did not change or attempt to get to the root calls, a k, a, my drinking, then I was going to be in this cycle forever, which we know it's not sustainable. 15 years. Is impressive. I, I gave about 15 years of my life to drinking as well, but I would not be here today if I kept on that path. So in March of 2020 now. Pretty much typical morning you wake up and you're like, okay, Sarah, like I can't do this. What's going on? I gotta really do something about it. But I'm also like thinking timeline wise, this is pandemic, right? The very beginning of the pandemic. So what was that like for you? Because then we go into isolation, we go into quarantine most people's drinking exasperated at this time, and you got sober. So can you share a little bit about what that. What that process looked like for you, what those early, early days in the wee hours of your sobriety was like?

sarah_2_06-13-2025_174106: 16:10

Yeah. Oh my God. It, it was funny the night that, the night we were out, so March 7th, the night we were out, before I had stopped drinking. We were all talking about, like we had heard about COVID and it was just like this thing we were talking about, and I work in HR and people ops, so like we had known from our global offices, like, oh, they were thinking about shutting down and just was this thing that felt so far away. And then literally, I think it was a week later, I was shutting down offices. I was home. We're trying to navigate all of this. I am. It middle of a detox, like, in my home and it, and I think about this all the time, it was like the absolute most gut wrenching like month and then 90 days of my life, it was like the hardest thing ever. I don't remember a lot of the beginning of it. All I remember was like a deep knowing of if you do not do this now, it's not happening because if you are home, I don't know how long we're gonna be home for,

the-sober-butterfly_12_06-13-2025_174056: 17:17

Hmm.

sarah_2_06-13-2025_174106: 17:17

what I would do. I knew that if I started drinking again, that was like end of my book because.

the-sober-butterfly_12_06-13-2025_174056: 17:23

Yeah.

sarah_2_06-13-2025_174106: 17:24

I hadn't, I didn't have anything to be accountable for. I didn't have to commute to work in the morning. I didn't have to show my face on, I could make an excuse. I didn't have to go on Zoom for meetings if I didn't want to. I could just like

the-sober-butterfly_12_06-13-2025_174056: 17:34

Yeah.

sarah_2_06-13-2025_174106: 17:34

Could drink while I drank, while I was working anyway, but I could now drink the whole day While I was working, it

the-sober-butterfly_12_06-13-2025_174056: 17:39

Yeah.

sarah_2_06-13-2025_174106: 17:39

all I saw was what was gonna happen if I started drinking again, and I had such a deep fear of that, that I think that's what just kept me in line for those early days. And it is, it's like I really, day to day, I like barely but that

the-sober-butterfly_12_06-13-2025_174056: 18:03

Yeah.

sarah_2_06-13-2025_174106: 18:03

really thinking about. I was like, yeah, like

the-sober-butterfly_12_06-13-2025_174056: 18:07

Play the tape forward,

sarah_2_06-13-2025_174106: 18:08

done. Mm-hmm.

the-sober-butterfly_12_06-13-2025_174056: 18:09

right? Like play the tape forward. Like I, I, yeah, I hadn't thought about that too. Like, well, that is why so many people, like myself included, drank more because yeah, I just had less things that I had to show up for. Like I could, I could hide more and get away with it. But I also think as a reframe, it sounds as low. You also have an opportunity because if you no longer have to commute or you have to, you know, go to these, meet like work in person and all the things, right? If you choose to do this, you can pour more energy and time into prioritizing your newfound sobriety. And it sounds like that's what you did because you've been sober for five years. And something you touched on was. You know, you said the, that month or so early, early days with sobriety was not pleasant for you? It wasn't for me either. I remember finding social media accounts on sober Instagram because I didn't know anyone in real life sober. And so everyone's talking about like the pink cloud effect and pink clouding and rainbows and butterflies, and I'm just like, when is that gonna happen for me? When is that gonna happen? Because I am miserable. I mourned alcohol like it was. A true friend that I lost, like RIP. So can you explain to us how you were able to power through those difficult moments? And I know this is going back, but like these conversations just remind me or forced me to like go back to those moments where I'm like, it wasn't easy, but yet. Here you are. Here I am. We persisted. So can you share anything that you can remember about those early moments and how you were able to get over that cliff that that hump of like, oh, this is uncomfortable. I hate this and I'm miserable doing it.

sarah_2_06-13-2025_174106: 19:55

Yeah, very similarly, I started from, I think I made a fake account to follow sobriety accounts because I didn't even wanna see people. I didn't want people to see me following

the-sober-butterfly_12_06-13-2025_174056: 20:06

The mutual. Oh, that's so funny.

sarah_2_06-13-2025_174106: 20:07

sobriety related

the-sober-butterfly_12_06-13-2025_174056: 20:09

Mm-hmm.

sarah_2_06-13-2025_174106: 20:09

my like actual. And so I started doing that and very similar to you. A lot of what I saw was like, I don't know if I was just like not in the right place or what it was, but it was very much kind of glamorizing things. And Pink Cloud, I'm like, this cloud is black. Like I I, there's no ping cloud. I don't think I ever had a ping cloud. I really don't. And I now know some people just don't get it which is fine. But all I did was like, kept myself. Busy. Which again, was so hard because you couldn't go anywhere. So I did things like, I don't do, like I was painting. I don't paint, like I'm not artistic at all. I was painting, I read a lot. I always have. I was reading constantly. I was like doing puzzles. I was like making my like now husband buy all these games. Like a lot of tactile things too. Like anything I could do with my hands was very helpful. And I got into like Peloton and any type of movement I could do within my house. I'm very fortunate to live right next to Prospect Park. So like I could still go outside and go on walks. But I just needed to like keep myself moving.'cause if I stopped for too long, got really nervous. Like I was very antsy when I didn't have anything to do because I was like, all right, well this would normally be the time. Where I'd be like, let's go to the bar. And then even during the pandemic, that was like deemed essential, so all the liquor stores were still open and you could get it delivered. So there was no, literally nothing gatekeeping alcohol at

the-sober-butterfly_12_06-13-2025_174056: 21:46

Yeah.

sarah_2_06-13-2025_174106: 21:47

So yeah, I just kept myself like incredibly busy

the-sober-butterfly_12_06-13-2025_174056: 21:51

It sounds like me, like my therapist always, like when we first started our sessions, and she'll say this today, she's like, you are someone that has to stay busy. Like you are dangerous when you're bored. And so it also just kind of, not to like put my stuff onto you, Sarah, but I'm like, it sounds to me too, like. You didn't have hobbies. Like if you're, if you love to drink and now you take that away, it's like, well, what else is there? Like, what else am I supposed to do? And then you're in the middle of a pandemic, so that just makes everything so much harder. I don't know if you've heard this, like people regress back to the age or around the age that they. First started drinking or before they first started drinking, I should say. So like I too, like started picking up things that I never used to do or hadn't done since like high school, like drawing and painting and things like that. I had to learn like what pastimes existed out there, first of all, and like what things. Spoke to me and it's like I wouldn't know unless I tried. So I was trying my hand at things that I would never typically do because I didn't know what else to do if I wasn't drinking or working, you know? And sometimes both to your point earlier.

sarah_2_06-13-2025_174106: 23:04

Yeah, because I feel like those two things were my whole personality, like I would work and then I would drink. And then I would like get up and do the same thing again. Like I didn't do, worked out and stuff. I don't know how like I was like active when I was in active addiction, like very much for like show and to prove I was okay. But didn't enjoy any of that stuff that I was doing either. And like I can get into that later, but like that's a whole different relationship that I have now as well. Yeah, like I was just trying to find anything to do and it is kind of like where you like, yeah, maybe that was when I was 13. That might have been what I was up to. And to figure out because like, yeah, no, literally like I bought like color pencils, I had coloring, but it was just, yeah, anything. I was so desperate to just be distracted.

the-sober-butterfly_12_06-13-2025_174056: 23:56

I, I also like talking about fitness and things like that, like I've always been an active person as well, and in the pandemic I discovered running, like I, I was into workout classes, but like running wasn't my thing outside especially. And then obviously gyms are closed, so I was running outside, but I. Also did it for presentation. I did it because aesthetically I wanted to look a certain way. I didn't really care about my actual physical wellbeing. And obviously I'm consuming copious amounts of poison. So that's a given. But beyond that too, I think. There was something about proving myself to other people, because I would be that girl that would surprise you. Like blackout at the bar. Right. And then next morning I'm still gonna make my workout class because I'm insane. Not because I actually am well enough to attend this class, it's just because I like, for some reason, feel like I have to show up. I have to be my best, even though I'm like. Slowly killing myself with this substance. So yeah, every time you like say something, I'm like, oh my God. Yes, me too. So thank you for like, getting into that and something I would love to touch on, Specific to what I love about she stays sober. Have a lisp that's a tongue twister for me. She stays sober. Sarah from, she stays sober. I'm say that like 10 times. So something that really stands out to me though that I love about your page is I do feel like you get real, like aesthetically too. I love. Like the, is it Chrome? I can't even describe like the full aesthetics, but it's like blurred. It's really beautiful. But beyond the aesthetics, your messaging is deep and it's very much like, yeah, I'm gonna, I'm gonna be honest about mental health. I'm gonna talk about depressive episodes and like how I'm coping and working through those things. Do you mind getting into a little bit about just how your mental health has been? Impacted through sobriety and like maybe what it looked like before. I know you've touched on that as well, but like just showing us that like trajectory from pre sobriety to sober times in terms of your mental health and the benefits if any that you experienced.

sarah_2_06-13-2025_174106: 26:04

Yeah, of course. I think that I genuinely, I did not know I was struggling with any mental health issues until I drank, and the first time that I drank and. Noticed that it went so far beyond just kind of like that initial like warm, fuzzy buzz feeling. And I realized it and muted all of this like horrible feelings I didn't recognize at the time were like anxiety and paranoia and depression, like I just did not know. But as soon as that like switch was turned off, I was like, Ugh. Like that. It showed me there were like much deeper problems going on, but until that day I, I just thought that that's like what people felt like inside. I thought people just walked around really scared of everybody, like hyperventilating most of the time, feeling really, really dark and like having suicidal ideations occasionally. And I just was like, that just must be like. Life, like life is hard. And you know, you hear people talk about it and that's just how people must feel. And yeah,, I really didn't realize it until I started drinking. And then that of course, turned into like number one coping mechanism

the-sober-butterfly_5_03-05-2025_172219: 27:26

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sarah_3_06-13-2025_180825: 29:03

Walked around and feeling like this, like people were either like sad, anxious, paranoid, like had really, really deep and were carrying that around with them. And it was just because like, life is not easy and like you get that message all the time, whether it's from like parents or like media, like whatever you see is just kind of like, just keep going. And I was just like, what I thought I was gonna do.

the-sober-butterfly_12_06-13-2025_180816: 29:26

Yep.

sarah_3_06-13-2025_180825: 29:28

but it was so much more serious than that. But like you just don't know that, I have like incredible parents. Like I had a great upbringing. I, have done so much I have learned so much more about my mental health to like also understand it themselves. But like when you have a kid that's like a teenager that is just like constantly sick to her stomach all the time and like doesn't wanna do anything and you're just like, you're being dramatic. You know, like you don't know how serious it is.

the-sober-butterfly_12_06-13-2025_180816: 29:58

Yeah. Yeah.

sarah_3_06-13-2025_180825: 29:59

And so I just like. Thought that just is what it is. What it is, is what it was. And then once I learned that drinking could like dim all of that, that's when drinking just became full blown

the-sober-butterfly_12_06-13-2025_180816: 30:11

Yeah.

sarah_3_06-13-2025_180825: 30:12

mechanism. Like anytime I was super anxious, anytime I was having a really bad bout of depression, I knew I could turn to that because nothing else was working. And like therapy was not talked about at all. Like when I was growing

the-sober-butterfly_12_06-13-2025_180816: 30:27

Mm-hmm.

sarah_3_06-13-2025_180825: 30:27

by anybody, it wasn't like it was. wrong in my home. It was just like

the-sober-butterfly_12_06-13-2025_180816: 30:31

Yeah. Symptom of the times. Yeah.

sarah_3_06-13-2025_180825: 30:34

Yeah. Like it just was still very taboo. And yeah, so I just used alcohol. I was like, if this is the only thing, like in the whole world that I can reach for and make all of this stop, even if it's not permanent, like I'm gonna do it.

the-sober-butterfly_12_06-13-2025_180816: 30:50

Yeah.

sarah_3_06-13-2025_180825: 30:51

And I think that's what got me as hooked as. was, was like, I was, yes, literally addicted to substance itself, but also I was just so obsessed with shutting off feelings. Like it's all I wanted to do was just shut them off.

the-sober-butterfly_12_06-13-2025_180816: 31:12

Yeah, I feel similarly. I was diagnosed later in life with A DHD, which I know that term gets thrown around a lot, but once I realized that, it just all started to click and make sense of my brain. More like having an overly, you know, like hyperactive brain. I. Alcohol was a depressive substance. I knew that. I've known that, but it's just this idea that like, it would finally quell those like thoughts that I had and make me feel like I could be more present, which sounds insane, but you know, I feel more present as I'm inching closer to a blackout, basically. I'm like, yeah, like this is great. Everything's great. But the reality is like I, I get what you're saying, like you're addicted to. The feeling of being able to self-soothe and like medicate and quiet and relax and all the things that we think alcohol's giving us. The thing is like, I'm not gonna lie, it did give me those things, but it came with more, it wasn't just that it, it would be too easy, right? It would be too nice if it were just like, oh yeah, this works. And. Everything's fine. No, I, I very much got addicted as well, and that part of my brain still functions in the sa same way. Like I am an alcoholic. I know this about myself. I also have a DHD, so I, I still have to manage all of the things going on up here without the substance of alcohol. So how do you do it like that? That's something that I'm wondering. And have you found that your mental health has improved since getting sober?

sarah_3_06-13-2025_180825: 32:43

Yeah, I think that when I had, first I was diagnosed like officially in college with having anxiety and depression and also later PTSD. And initially when I was diagnosed with all of that, to me that was like, okay, well then I have to keep drinking. Like it was like a sign of this must continue. I've had it right the entire

the-sober-butterfly_12_06-13-2025_180816: 33:04

Yep.

sarah_3_06-13-2025_180825: 33:04

I knew something was wrong. And then when I got. Sober. I was scared. Anytime I had any feeling, like if I was happy, I was like, what the, like what's this? Because it was just

the-sober-butterfly_12_06-13-2025_180816: 33:18

Yeah.

sarah_3_06-13-2025_180825: 33:19

any even good feelings, you're like this, what is it? Like why you don't know what to do with it? And it was so jarring initially. I think about like my first panic attack when I was sober, my first depressive episode when I was sober, it. It was horrible. Like I had to sit in it and I think that while sobriety has improved my mental health in the way that like, I'm not making it worse. Like I'm not making myself more anxious, I'm not making myself more depressed. It doesn't it, I wish it was like some kind of magic wand for, oh, now you know, all these are gone. But they're still there. And I have to just like, very similar to just like taking my sobriety a day at a time. I do the same exact thing with my mental health. If I try to look out any further than like the hours in the day in front of me, that's when I start like slipping backwards as

the-sober-butterfly_12_06-13-2025_180816: 34:20

Yeah.

sarah_3_06-13-2025_180825: 34:21

being like I'm gonna be depressed forever. Like, I'll convince myself that the state that I'm in today is like the only state I will ever know, but if I can use the lessons I've learned from sobriety around my mental health, I found that helps a ton because in the same way that like a craving isn't permanent, I know my depression isn't permanent no matter how. Deeply. It feels like it is, like I am even like right now. Like I was telling you earlier, I've been in a depressive episode for like almost a year at this point, which is crazy, and that's the longest one I've had in sobriety. They're typically only like a month, maybe too long,

the-sober-butterfly_12_06-13-2025_180816: 34:59

Mm-hmm.

sarah_3_06-13-2025_180825: 35:00

and because I'm in one now. I like, I'm even finding myself like I'm waking up and I'm just like, ugh. Like, like

the-sober-butterfly_12_06-13-2025_180816: 35:09

Yeah.

sarah_3_06-13-2025_180825: 35:10

like we're,

the-sober-butterfly_12_06-13-2025_180816: 35:11

Yeah.

sarah_3_06-13-2025_180825: 35:11

is like, we're still here, but if I reframe it as you're also still an alcoholic, I'm like, you've been doing that. Like I can get through it. And I really have to throw myself into I can control. So like for me to. Deal with the struggles that I have in my mental health. I number like my sobriety has to be the top thing I'm focused on at all times. Like if that is not at the top of my list, I like no shot. And I also have to keep like like movement in my life. Every single day I have to like get up and like go to work and like come home. And for me, there's points in. My depressive episodes where it's like, I can't, I can't even like brush my teeth and it's like that. like I have to just like, I have to get through the day and not drink. I'm like, I gotta, you just gotta like brush your teeth. It takes a long time and it's okay. But I think

the-sober-butterfly_12_06-13-2025_180816: 36:12

Yeah.

sarah_3_06-13-2025_180825: 36:13

I was very quick initially to. Question like, was sobriety the right thing for my mental health? Because I'm like, I have nothing now to figure out how to cope with it.

the-sober-butterfly_12_06-13-2025_180816: 36:27

Yeah.

sarah_3_06-13-2025_180825: 36:28

yeah, and I've also, I've been in therapy for, I'm so, so grateful. I've been in therapy for as long as I have. Because I think truly without the therapist that I've had for all of my sobriety, I would not be nearly as well equipped to try and like move. Through things. So that also has been a massive help to me and I, anybody that asks me about that, I always tell them like, if that is not something you're doing, like please, like if you can and it's accessible to you, do it. Because it really does, it makes like it feels so much less lonely. Like even if it doesn't feel better, like at least you're not doing it by yourself. Yeah.

the-sober-butterfly_12_06-13-2025_180816: 37:09

That's beautiful. So many gems there. More recently I discovered I'm in a depressive episode and intuitively I've known it, but I didn't want to, I. Acknowledge it. I didn't want to identify as being depressed for whatever reason. I've been depressed before and it didn't look exactly like the last time. I was like really, really depressed, so I was just like, I'm not depressed. It's fine. If anything, it's seasonal depression, but I did know, and I think similar to me tormenting myself wrestling with the idea of like, am I truly an alcoholic? And you know, going back and forth about like, no, well alcoholics are like this and I don't do that and I don't day drink. And all the things every single day and all the lies I was telling myself actually kept me sick longer. And that's how I feel even about my mental health. Like once I recognize that, okay, I'm struggling with my mental health, I feel like. Immediately I give myself permission to A, be human, and B, really start the journey to figure out how to get out of this cycle. Because the more I pretend and the more I tell myself like I'm okay when I know I'm not, the more I'm going to sit in this place where I can't even begin the work. I can't even start the journey if I don't acknowledge that there is a path in front of me. You know what I mean? So that that is very telling, and I think specific to my sobriety. Being able to no longer default to numbing, self-medicating to soothe, to avoid, to escape all the things like I'm kind of forced to deal with myself a lot faster because I'm just like, there's, there's no escape. Like this is who I am and I can see these things a lot clearer. But clarity is so much of what people lament about in a positive way around sobriety. So. I just wanna say thank you for that.'cause I'm even working through right now my own understanding of what depression looks like and I, I think it's challenging too. We talked about this backstage, like when you can't pinpoint a specific thing that's driving that depressive episode, it makes you feel, I. I don't know. It makes me feel crazier. I'm like, well, am I depressed? Because what do I have to be depressed about? Like, I know the world's on fire, but like specific to me, I have so much to be grateful for and like life is good, but like I don't feel good. So what's up with that? And then I start to gaslight myself basically, which I know is not healthy. And I'm, I'm working through that in therapy as well. I, I actually think I need a new therapist. My therapist love her, adore her. She helped me get sober and recognize I had a problem with alcohol, but I also think I need. Someone to push me a little further. And it's not her fault, it's like me. But anyway, I digress. I am connecting to so much of what you shared and I, I wanna learn from you, Sarah, if you feel comfortable sharing this, because I know depression looks very different for different people and even for yourself. Like for me, the last time I was like severely depressed was and college was one time for sure, and in the pandemic, which is right around the time I got sober. So. Do you find that your depressive episodes vary? They look differently? Because I know that you mentioned this is the longest stretch, you've been in one since getting sober. So how do you know, this sounds so basic, but like genuinely, I would love to learn from you. Like, how do you know that you're, you're depressed? A and then b, how do you know that you're starting to get out of that place, that depressive episode, for example?

sarah_3_06-13-2025_180825: 40:38

Yeah, I think that I have a lot of tells now that I understand, like if you would ask me that question, I. Like five, six years ago, I would be like, I always know way too late. Like I would, I

the-sober-butterfly_12_06-13-2025_180816: 40:52

Yeah.

sarah_3_06-13-2025_180825: 40:53

known how to like, answer. But now it's like I'll notice things. I will have on red text messages. Like,'cause I don't wanna talk to anybody.

the-sober-butterfly_12_06-13-2025_180816: 41:04

Oh my God.

sarah_3_06-13-2025_180825: 41:04

I won't answer my texts or I'll open them and I won't answer them. I. starts piling up around my apartment, like just normal. Like not, it doesn't get dirty. It's just like my clean clothes it'll take me two seconds to put in the closet. They just like sit in a pile on a chair and then I make a pile on the table. I mean, there's a pile upstairs and it's like like physical surroundings will start reflecting like, what is going on? And it's little stuff. Like I'll skip a week of. Cleaning, like it's, there's like little things to me that show it. And luckily like my, I live with my husband and like he, he'll notice I think a lot of times, sometimes even before I do. And because I have a therapist, she now can see it usually, like, I can recognize it pretty timely now, but there was a time when I couldn't, like, it would be a month of feeling that way, and then I would finally. with my therapist. Like, I think I'm depressed. And she'd be like, yeah, like you are you often. But yeah, and I think that because also'cause I'm sober, it's like I really do know now what like genuine hopelessness and helplessness feel like, and when that kicks in, I, I, I know I'm like in it, in it. And it just like, to me it feels like. When I am waking up and feeling like I am just trying to like climb out of a hole and then like I get dropped back into it when I go to bed and then I gotta do it again the next morning. Like that's when I recognize it too. But I do think like it's very small things initially it's just kind of like not wanting to interact, pretending I didn't get invitations to things like just disregard for any type of interaction with another human is how it starts.

the-sober-butterfly_12_06-13-2025_180816: 42:58

That's the first time I've heard someone say that. And I am nodding rigorously over here because Yeah, that's a telltale sign for me as well. I. The apathy I get in this mode, Sarah. I'm like, what's the point? Like, just like, what's the point? Is this, it is this life. Like every day. Rinse and repeat this. And it's like, I have a lot to be grateful for. I have people that love me. I have a great circle. I have great things. even for me, like being a busy body, like I, I genuinely am like the type of person that likes to stay busy, but then it just sort of feels like I'm going through the motions. Like I'm not even really being present. I'm just like, check, check, check. Because I'm trying to convince myself that I'm okay and if I stay busy, I'll be okay. And it forces me to not deal with. My inner self that I know needs some attention. And I find that journaling does help me because I'm a very visual person when I put it on paper and allow myself just like an open-ended, like just write free write. Things start to come up and I'm like, oh, yeah, okay. There's something here that I'm avoiding. And for me, I'm not avoiding with alcohol anymore. I'm avoiding by just like keeping myself busy. And even if you look at my phone right now, I literally have like a hundred messages and I, and then I'll say like, oh, I'm busy, but it's like, busy doing what? Like, some of the stuff is important, but some of it is just like, girl, like you're avoiding. True connection. You're avoiding like, really?'cause you know, if you talk to this person, they're gonna be like, something's up. Like, what's up? And I don't wanna talk about what's up, or I just don't wanna talk because I'm like depressed. I just don't wanna talk. I wanna stay inside my inner world when it might sometimes be okay to do that and spend time with yourself. But oftentimes I find that like for me, it's like I am avoiding because I don't wanna lie to people. I don't wanna pretend anymore, but that's what I did. All the years I was drinking, just pretending. And I don't like to feel like I'm doing that anymore, but it's like you don't always wanna get into it. Like, how are you? Life sucks. I hate, I have no reason to say that, but it does. That's how I feel. It's like, how do you say that to people? I'm good.

sarah_3_06-13-2025_180825: 45:03

God. Yeah, a

the-sober-butterfly_12_06-13-2025_180816: 45:04

Yeah.

sarah_3_06-13-2025_180825: 45:04

percent. And like, I think very similarly to people that I used to avoid or cancel plans on when I was drinking.'cause they would call me out on like, what? Like

the-sober-butterfly_12_06-13-2025_180816: 45:17

Mm.

sarah_3_06-13-2025_180825: 45:17

you're, this might be a problem for you. It's those same people that like, thank God they're still in my life.

the-sober-butterfly_12_06-13-2025_180816: 45:22

Yep.

sarah_3_06-13-2025_180825: 45:22

But it's like, I know they're gonna know I'm depressed and I know they're gonna ask. So I, and I'm like, why do I do that? Because in no world, there has never been a situation in which I have responded or I have gotten dinner with the person and I've been honest and they've been like, Ugh, yikes. Like, that's never happened.

the-sober-butterfly_12_06-13-2025_180816: 45:39

Yeah.

sarah_3_06-13-2025_180825: 45:40

only ever met with like, can I do anything?

the-sober-butterfly_12_06-13-2025_180816: 45:44

Yeah.

sarah_3_06-13-2025_180825: 45:44

if they can't, do you just want me to listen? Are

the-sober-butterfly_12_06-13-2025_180816: 45:47

Yeah.

sarah_3_06-13-2025_180825: 45:47

like, are you still seeing your therapist? Like it's always met with these normal. Supportive, like, and I know who's not gonna be supportive, so I

the-sober-butterfly_12_06-13-2025_180816: 45:55

Yeah.

sarah_3_06-13-2025_180825: 45:55

talk to those people about it. You know, like you know, you know now like who you can and can't talk to about mental

the-sober-butterfly_12_06-13-2025_180816: 46:01

Mm-hmm.

sarah_3_06-13-2025_180825: 46:02

But yeah, like it's those same people that I avoid and when you are talking about you notice yourself going through the motions, that's another tell for me that I completely forgot about. Like I will go to like a bar class or something. I'll walk in. I have no idea what happened. And I'm like, on the subway home, I'm like, I don't know what I just did. Like I have, I have no

the-sober-butterfly_12_06-13-2025_180816: 46:26

sore, but like how?

sarah_3_06-13-2025_180825: 46:28

right. Like I'm in pain and like, I'm a little sweaty, but was I there? I don't know. So like the, like dis dissociating also kicks in. But yeah, as soon as you said that I was like, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Like I, I will forget full parts of my day.

the-sober-butterfly_12_06-13-2025_180816: 46:41

Yeah, that's, that's really powerful. And I think to that, I love the anecdote you gave between like avoiding the people that you know, genuinely care will know what's up. Like even the people that were like, Nadine, you were drinking too much. Like, are you sure? Like that kind of thing. Like yeah, I do the same thing now with the depression, depression thing. But I think too, it's like back to the sobriety, I wasn't ready. For someone to confront my drinking and maybe me avoiding having these conversations with people. It's not because I distrust them or like maybe I'm just like, I don't want to talk it out because I don't know. Why I'm feeling this way, or I'm trying to still convince myself that I can do it by myself. I can get out of this, I'll be fine. It's just a moment. It's just a bad week. It's just, I don't know, retrograde. But ultimately I think so much of the suffering and we know this in sobriety, the opposite of addiction is connection. It's very similar. I think we are social creatures and it is important to like, share, even if you don't wanna share with. Your closest loved ones. Back to the therapy piece, like just having someone so that you don't feel so alone I think is integral in anything you do. Especially if you're struggling with mental health. And I would even say sobriety, like addiction is mental health, right? Like you're struggling. It's physical too, but it's also like, yeah, the mental fixation part is a struggle and I need to like connect with other people who get it or it can help me along the way.

the-sober-butterfly_12_06-13-2025_182914: 48:09

so I've shared a little bit already on the podcast and with you around my mental health and feeling depressed in this season of life. Before I confided to the podcast, I invited to a girlfriend and her response was, well, I think that you need to. Get on an antidepressant, and I don't know why, because I'm not anti-medication. I actually take medication for my A-D-H-D-I. But when she said that I, I was offended and I don't know why. How do you feel about medications, antidepressants because I think still in the sober world, the sober community, there's stigma behind. Taking any substance, even if it's a medication with the supervision of a doctor. How do you feel in connection to antidepressants or anything like that?

sarah_4_06-13-2025_182924: 48:59

Yeah, I mean, I am at a point now where I have been on antidepressants and anti-anxiety medication for. So long that I'm like, I know that that's part of what has like kept me from ending my life at points in my

the-sober-butterfly_12_06-13-2025_182914: 49:13

Yeah.

sarah_4_06-13-2025_182924: 49:14

I know things like that. But I also know like that when I first went on them, it for some reason it feels like, don't know what it is because I don't have a DHD, so I can't make the comparison of like why that feels okay and why someone suggesting medicine for depression feels like, ooh. But I think that I just, it was suggested to me at first, I was like, I should just be able to like control that. Like, I couldn't acknowledge that like in the same way, like a DHD. Is like chemicals in your brain and

the-sober-butterfly_12_06-13-2025_182914: 49:55

Yeah. Yeah.

sarah_4_06-13-2025_182924: 49:56

over it. I, I couldn't acknowledge that for my anxiety or my depression. Like that was not a chemical imbalance to me. I was like, no, that is a product of like your environment and if you just get around, like less triggering stuff or if you spend more time meditating or you spend more time journaling or you just are a more mindful, thoughtful person, you can get yourself out of it. You should run, you should like, do I. Anything. Like I

the-sober-butterfly_12_06-13-2025_182914: 50:22

It.

sarah_4_06-13-2025_182924: 50:23

yeah, I was so convinced. I'm like,

the-sober-butterfly_12_06-13-2025_182914: 50:25

Yeah.

sarah_4_06-13-2025_182924: 50:25

that's something I can pull myself up out of. So I don't need the help. And really, like, I was like so desperate by the time I finally went on'em, and I'm grateful that I'm on them. But like, it really, it took a lot, like, it was a lot of arguing back and forth with myself. It's a really hard process to, I think with any medication, it doesn't matter what it's for to like. It's like a month of just whole chemistry gets messed up

the-sober-butterfly_12_06-13-2025_182914: 50:54

Right. Right.

sarah_4_06-13-2025_182924: 50:55

shit. You're trying to adjust to it and it's like, I didn't wanna do that either. And I've had to do that so many times since like I got on the first one, but it's like, like now I know what to expect. But it did, what I wasn't expecting was. How hard and how many opinions people had about it in sobriety. And it depends on like the spaces and the communities that you're in. But it's like there's some people that period, you're not sober'cause you're on something that's like altering your mind, helping you, whatever. And I'm like,

the-sober-butterfly_12_06-13-2025_182914: 51:26

Helping me.

sarah_4_06-13-2025_182924: 51:28

yeah. Like I'm just trying, like I'm literally just. Like not a wild request. But they really believe that. Or it's like some people believe you can take certain medications but not controlled substances. And like my kind of philosophy on it and how I feel about it now is like if I to take like a benzo once a month for a panic attack. I'll do it like

the-sober-butterfly_12_06-13-2025_182914: 51:53

Yeah.

sarah_4_06-13-2025_182924: 51:54

so much better than letting that panic attack drag out for days on end and like drinking or using over it. I feel so strongly about that and like it's and can't talk about it in certain spaces. Like this is a space where I can

the-sober-butterfly_12_06-13-2025_182914: 52:09

podcast. There is no like. Power powers that be entity that's like you are sober and you are not sober because you take the, like, that to me is so divisive unnecessarily. I, I, I don't understand. So I did wrestle with, once I was like officially diagnosed with A-D-H-D-I I had known for a long time. I had it, but like similar to, to just like the stigmas out there. I'm like, well, it's a controlled substance and like I know how my addict brain works and like all the things, but I take my medication with fidelity because it helps me function. It's helped my depression a lot because so much of. A DHD being undiagnosed and untreated was me feeling like I was never doing enough. I was never like, I was like, there's something wrong with me. I'm slow. Like, I'm literally like, why does everything take me so much longer? Why is everything so much harder for me? And so, yeah, if people think that I'm not so weird because I take Adderall, then I don't care what they think because I am sober and I'm gonna define my sobriety as my drug of choice. Is and was alcohol. And I don't drink because I can't moderate or handle or manage a healthy relationship with a toxic substance. Like that is what it is. And I hope I didn't come across insensitive because this is something I'm still like, trying to understand for myself, I'm, I might need to speak to a doctor and

sarah_4_06-13-2025_182924: 53:32

Yeah.

the-sober-butterfly_12_06-13-2025_182914: 53:33

like literally be prescribed an antidepressant because. If this persists for much longer. Like for me, it's been the better part of all this year. And I'm not someone that's typically afflicted by seasonal depression, so that that was already like a sign there, but I'm like, oh, it's just whatever, dark and cold. I'm recognizing though, like this is not sustainable for me forever. I think the one thing to your earlier point is like. The difference, the what? Differentiates, like, oh, depression. Like why, why people have more feelings. Maybe around like taking an antidepressant is because people think that you can control your depression. People think that you can just be happy. Like why? What? Why you happy? Like you just be happy. Just yoga. Have you tried meditation, Sarah? It's like, what? What the fuck? Like, what are you talking about? Yes, of course. I've tried the things. So I think that that part of me is still, it still needs to be like indoct or unlearned. Like there's an indoctrination that's happened where it's like, just like how we've grown as a society around like this idea of therapy being a real science, it's a real support. That can help people. I think the same. Sentiments can be said around antidepressants. Like people just think that you're just not trying hard enough to be happy. And like that is obviously not true. But that was still my reaction when my friend said that. I'm like, well, I haven't, have, I tried all the things. I'm just finally admitting that I have. Depression to you. You're the first person I'm telling. And default, you're like, here, like, talk to a doctor. So like, I think that's where I'm trying to like, make sense of it for myself. I'm not against it. I have no, I, I don't, I have no feelings about it.'cause like that's another thing. Like I'm not you Sarah, I don't know what your life is like. Like I don't know how you feel. Like it's ridiculous to me that people have feelings about this. I'm like, well, you are not waking up as me every day, so you don't know how I feel.

sarah_4_06-13-2025_182924: 55:24

Exactly. Yeah.

the-sober-butterfly_12_06-13-2025_182914: 55:25

Anyway, sorry. I just wanted to put the, put that out there because I know that like, it can be a hot topic for some and I'm just like, listen. We're trying our best, we're all trying our best here. I will say like one thing and let me know if you feel connected to this. Like, one thing that I'm recognizing though, since I've started taking my Adderall, my prescribed dosage of Adderall, that I'm not abusing. I have noticed, I'm like, well, I have to take this forever. And I think that's another thing that I'm like, I don't know if I wanna add another thing. I'm like, I don't even know because life feels so much better with my medication. But I also don't want to be medicated for the rest of my life. Does that make sense? Like, how do you feel?

sarah_4_06-13-2025_182924: 56:06

my gosh. It makes so much sense. And like I. So when I went into this depressive episode, I was on like a certain dosage of one medicine

the-sober-butterfly_12_06-13-2025_182914: 56:16

Mm-hmm.

sarah_4_06-13-2025_182924: 56:17

I had had like a lot of trouble with the psychiatrist that I was seeing. So I like switched psychiatrists, got another terrible one, finally found one that was like amazing and I love them, they're great. But when we started talking about like how I'm feeling right now, they waited a couple of sessions and then brought up maybe. Like, we wanna add this other medication that works really well with your medication.'cause I'm also really sensitive to like, I will not take medication that could possibly make me gain weight.'cause I have a ton of problems with like eating and my body and

the-sober-butterfly_12_06-13-2025_182914: 56:56

Same.

sarah_4_06-13-2025_182924: 56:56

And so I know there's certain things I'm like, no, no, no. Like you can't, we're not even gonna go

the-sober-butterfly_12_06-13-2025_182914: 57:01

Yeah,

sarah_4_06-13-2025_182924: 57:01

world.

the-sober-butterfly_12_06-13-2025_182914: 57:02

it just gonna make everything, it's just gonna

sarah_4_06-13-2025_182924: 57:04

yes, it's like a fear.

the-sober-butterfly_12_06-13-2025_182914: 57:07

with you girl. Yeah.

sarah_4_06-13-2025_182924: 57:08

like each medicine to me feels like this Pandora's box of like, you're just gonna ruin something else. And so it was, so it took like over a month of convincing of let's just try this at the lowest possible dose added onto what you're taking. And that's what we did. Like did the lowest dose. The lowest increases over months,

the-sober-butterfly_12_06-13-2025_182914: 57:28

Yep.

sarah_4_06-13-2025_182924: 57:28

months. I'm so lucky now because a lot of people are not that gentle with it, and they don't have the patience because. I think it's unfortunate like a lot of psychiatrists, depending on how you get them, like they just,

the-sober-butterfly_12_06-13-2025_182914: 57:39

Check box.

sarah_4_06-13-2025_182924: 57:40

it. Yes. They're just like, take this. They don't even consider like what a dosage could impact what other like illnesses you may have.

the-sober-butterfly_12_06-13-2025_182914: 57:48

Mm-hmm.

sarah_4_06-13-2025_182924: 57:49

I, yeah, I'm lucky I found someone that's like incredibly patient, but my initial reaction to. A suggestion of a new medicine. One was like, absolutely not. We're not adding to this like mess I already have. And then once I added it and it like making things like exponentially better, but it wasn't making things worse,

the-sober-butterfly_12_06-13-2025_182914: 58:09

Right.

sarah_4_06-13-2025_182924: 58:09

the suggestion of like maybe only five milligrams, I was like, no, no. Like I can't, there's no more like,

the-sober-butterfly_12_06-13-2025_182914: 58:15

Yeah.

sarah_4_06-13-2025_182924: 58:16

end. But like then having someone tell you it ends when you want it to end, like you

the-sober-butterfly_12_06-13-2025_182914: 58:21

Yeah,

sarah_4_06-13-2025_182924: 58:21

yourself off of it and. you don't like it anymore, you can wean yourself off

the-sober-butterfly_12_06-13-2025_182914: 58:27

exactly.

sarah_4_06-13-2025_182924: 58:28

that and you're like, shit, I'm in the same spot I was in, you can go back on it. And it's like, if that can me through the, if it's yes, like I, I don't like the idea either of like, this could be something for the rest of my life, but I'm like, if that's what gets me to live through the rest of my life in like, you know, a way that's. Mildly like tolerable when I'm in these types of episodes, or like maybe I just have to increase it when I'm in a really bad episode. Like, there's also that option. It's like to me it's, it's worth it. But like I totally understand just the like, resistance to even like adding something else in.'cause it's like, for me it's like, it's a big. It doesn't matter how long I've been on medication, period. It's like it's a big fear that I have adding anything else in there for sure.

the-sober-butterfly_12_06-13-2025_182914: 59:20

Yeah, and the stigma from. The sober community, which we belong to, needs to stop. Okay, guys, you gotta knock it off. Okay. Stop telling people how to live their sober lives.. Thank you for sharing that, Sarah. Like that's very helpful for me too. And I think it just sounds to me like we, we have to have trust, trust in. The providers, the people that are actually consulting with us and making sure that they care about the whole profile, not just like the the singular thing I'm telling you. Get to understand me as a person because yeah, I have other things connected to as mentioned like body. Eating. Eating. Yeah. I would love to, maybe not now one day have a part two conversation because that is something very real a lifelong pursuit or not pursuit, a thing that I'm working with, dealing with. But anyway I would love to hard shift, play a little game as we wind down. Is that okay?

sarah_4_06-13-2025_182924: 1:00:20

A game. Yeah.

the-sober-butterfly_12_06-13-2025_182914: 1:00:21

Yes. I love to experiment with my game. I've never featured the same game twice so you're getting a brand new game. Everyone gets a new game.

sarah_4_06-13-2025_182924: 1:00:28

You come up with a new game for every person.

the-sober-butterfly_12_06-13-2025_182914: 1:00:31

I do. I have, well, I try to like, I. Connect it to like the theme of the episode. So without further ado, this game is called, Sober Struggle or Self-Care. Are you ready?

sarah_4_06-13-2025_182924: 1:00:45

Mm-hmm.

the-sober-butterfly_12_06-13-2025_184314: 1:00:46

so sober struggle or self-care with Sarah. This is like a rapid fire game. So I just want you to say whatever comes to your mind, okay? Staying in bed until 11:00 AM. Sober struggle,

sarah_5_06-13-2025_184314: 1:01:01

care.

the-sober-butterfly_12_06-13-2025_184314: 1:01:02

self care. Yeah. Especially on like a weekend, a Saturday, a Sunday. Yes.

sarah_5_06-13-2025_184314: 1:01:06

Yeah.

the-sober-butterfly_12_06-13-2025_184314: 1:01:07

If I'm in bed chilling with my book, like that sounds like a perfect Saturday. Whatcha talking about?

sarah_5_06-13-2025_184314: 1:01:13

You are not hurting anybody.

the-sober-butterfly_12_06-13-2025_184314: 1:01:15

a new one. Okay. What about deleting all social media?

sarah_5_06-13-2025_184314: 1:01:20

Uh, for me that's self care.'cause I also, like, even now, I do not allow myself on any form of social media for longer than 15 minutes a day because I will,

the-sober-butterfly_12_06-13-2025_184314: 1:01:31

15 minutes.

sarah_5_06-13-2025_184314: 1:01:32

15 minutes.

the-sober-butterfly_12_06-13-2025_184314: 1:01:33

Oh, that's impressive.

sarah_5_06-13-2025_184314: 1:01:36

minutes because I will lose my mind. I like

the-sober-butterfly_12_06-13-2025_184314: 1:01:38

Hi.

sarah_5_06-13-2025_184314: 1:01:39

the like comparison game and like it's, I'm like, what am I, so to me it's self-care because I'm like protecting a part of me,

the-sober-butterfly_12_06-13-2025_184314: 1:01:47

What about if you're, you're newly sober?

sarah_5_06-13-2025_184314: 1:01:51

hmm, I don't know.

the-sober-butterfly_12_06-13-2025_184314: 1:01:54

I feel like I would tell.

sarah_5_06-13-2025_184314: 1:01:55

it can be helpful. Like I think when I was newly sober, the time I spent on social media. going through like certain sober accounts and like therapist accounts and things like that, like helped me immensely. Um,

the-sober-butterfly_12_06-13-2025_184314: 1:02:12

screenshotting everything. Screenshots,

sarah_5_06-13-2025_184314: 1:02:14

Oh my God. Yeah. I kept everything. I still have like my like photo folder from the first like year of my sobriety is hilarious. Like,

the-sober-butterfly_12_06-13-2025_184314: 1:02:22

yes.

sarah_5_06-13-2025_184314: 1:02:22

I was like, how did this apply that I was, but it did

the-sober-butterfly_12_06-13-2025_184314: 1:02:25

Just everything. I, okay. I would say like, yeah, 15 minutes. I'm just blown away. I wish, I wish I, I, I introduced this idea of like, um, a silent summer, a silent sober summer where like I take intentional breaks from social. I have not implemented that yet, but it's not summer. Yeah.

sarah_5_06-13-2025_184314: 1:02:45

summer, so you can

the-sober-butterfly_12_06-13-2025_184314: 1:02:45

It's not officially summer. But yeah, I think what I would tell. The girlies or whoever's listening at home is, especially if you're newly sober, I would say, um, or not, even if you're newly sober, like I would say unfollow or like silence, toxic drinking accounts. I'm thinking like bitches and like, you know, the, the accounts, like those ones that glorify drinking and like, I think I, I love humor. But I think like humor disarms people and then like you can get your. Insidious message out to the masses. Like you're like laughing. Next thing you like, oh, like I kind of wanna drink because you make it so seem so funny. And it's like,

sarah_5_06-13-2025_184314: 1:03:25

Yeah, because it looks, it's like so funny

the-sober-butterfly_12_06-13-2025_184314: 1:03:27

yeah.

sarah_5_06-13-2025_184314: 1:03:28

clip, but like not for

the-sober-butterfly_12_06-13-2025_184314: 1:03:31

Let's

sarah_5_06-13-2025_184314: 1:03:31

life.

the-sober-butterfly_12_06-13-2025_184314: 1:03:32

keep rolling. What really happened after that? Like, let's see, the, let's really play that tape forward. Yeah. So, okay. I'm just so impressed with 15 minutes there. Wow. Um, I gotta like get like you, um, and I tell myself as a creator now I'm like, oh, I'm, I'm doing research, girl. I'm like, doom scrolling. Uh, whatever time. Okay. What about, we have a couple more here. What about, um. Crying in the shower to a blank, fill in the blank for yourself. Playlist. So like whoever is like that person. Is that a sober struggle or a form of self-care?

sarah_5_06-13-2025_184314: 1:04:10

A sober struggle

the-sober-butterfly_12_06-13-2025_184314: 1:04:12

Yeah,

sarah_5_06-13-2025_184314: 1:04:12

me. Yeah. Because honestly, I think like I

the-sober-butterfly_12_06-13-2025_184314: 1:04:16

I.

sarah_5_06-13-2025_184314: 1:04:16

didn't cry to a playlist until I was sober. like to me, I'm like, it's a, to like even have enough capacity for feeling and thinking that would be a cathartic experience, like

the-sober-butterfly_12_06-13-2025_184314: 1:04:28

Yes.

sarah_5_06-13-2025_184314: 1:04:29

feels like a sober struggle to me.

the-sober-butterfly_12_06-13-2025_184314: 1:04:31

I love that. I agree wholeheartedly. Yeah, I drank to avoid feelings, so Yeah. Here you come waterworks, because I'm sober, just like pent up all those years. Okay, my last one for you. I feel like I know what you're gonna say, but saying no to. Brunch or like whatever plans with friends. Now you can classify those friends. Are they drinking friends? Are they sober friends? Just friends saying no to something with friends.

sarah_5_06-13-2025_184314: 1:04:59

I would say both for me, I think sometimes. If I'm thinking about like, I don't know, I think it's both no matter what the situation is.'cause if I'm avoiding friends, that primarily, not avoiding them, but like if I don't,

the-sober-butterfly_12_06-13-2025_184314: 1:05:15

Yes.

sarah_5_06-13-2025_184314: 1:05:15

myself from a brunch or an event, like, sorry, frankly hears this, like if I remove myself from that, it's not them. It's like I know I'm just gonna be triggered if I'm like

the-sober-butterfly_12_06-13-2025_184314: 1:05:23

Yeah. Yeah.

sarah_5_06-13-2025_184314: 1:05:24

Depends on like the size of the space. Like I will, that to me is a sober struggle for sure. But it's also like. I have so many sober friends right now and like sometimes I don't have the capacity for like those events either. And like to me that's like self care. I'm like, I have to set a boundary of like, just because I'm sober does not mean I need to, I had to learn this. Like I do not need to go to every sober event or everything somebody invites me to just because I'm sober, like I don't have to do it. And like that took me years, like literally years to be like, that's okay. Like.

the-sober-butterfly_12_06-13-2025_184314: 1:06:01

thank you.

sarah_5_06-13-2025_184314: 1:06:02

And I'm happier for it. Like really?

the-sober-butterfly_12_06-13-2025_184314: 1:06:05

You just know someone's gonna text Sarah and say, I knew you were avoiding me.

sarah_5_06-13-2025_184314: 1:06:09

Yeah.

the-sober-butterfly_12_06-13-2025_184314: 1:06:11

No.

sarah_5_06-13-2025_184314: 1:06:12

Add 70 more texts that I'm avoiding to my phone.

the-sober-butterfly_12_06-13-2025_184314: 1:06:14

Right. I mean it's, it's, I think it's like a preservation thing. Like sometimes you just don't have the emotional capacity or like the bandwidth or the, the battery. Right. And like I love that you said yes. Just because you get sober doesn't mean you have to like, go to every single sober thing. Because I was definitely in that space and I was just like, I'm like, this is not, it's quality, not quantity. I'm just like, yes, it's great to like connect with people and, just because we're sober. That common thread. Yes, it's a great way to bond, but it doesn't mean that like we need to be best friends or like we have everything in common. So anyway, I love that you said that'cause I feel similarly thank you for playing, um, this brand new game that probably will never be played again for struggle so, or self care. Um, I wanna wind down, but like, honestly this, sorry. If you hear the siren, city noises. Okay. Um, one other. Thing I just thought of that I wanted to ask you earlier. I wrote it down, because you mentioned before getting sober, you had a fiance and then this is your current husband in sobriety. What was it like having a sober wedding? God willing, I'll get married one day. Sarah and I will have an experience what I'm sober at my wedding. So tell us a little bit,'cause I think that's so unique and I would love to hear how your wedding went. Did you have a wedding? I didn't even, I'm sorry. That's so rude.

sarah_5_06-13-2025_184314: 1:07:36

no, I did, we had a wedding. It like, was bigger than I would've liked, but like, you know, everybody's opinion is involved, uh, when you decide to do that. So it was. It truly, it was like one of the calmest days of my entire life. Like I,'cause I like woke up and I just got to like get ready and hang out with my friends and like, I wasn't hungover. I wasn't like, wasn't trying to just like, not drink until the reception. Like all these things I thought I was gonna have to worry about when I got married.

the-sober-butterfly_12_06-13-2025_184314: 1:08:13

been me. Literally, like I don't wanna drunk as I.

sarah_5_06-13-2025_184314: 1:08:16

Yeah. Yeah. Exactly like I literally thought like, I'm gonna have to so meticulously plan this day and like pick one of my bridesmaids to be like looking out for me and like not letting me drink and this and that and the other thing. Like I was thinking about that before I was ever even like engaged and that's crazy. Um, had like the most beautiful day that I was fully present for that I. and like I get to look back on these like videos and photos and I'm like, I remember that. Like I remember being in that circle dancing with like my mom and my sister. I remember what my husband said to me when he wrote his vows. I remember like my hair and makeup done and like not being miserable the whole time I was doing it. It's like. I was so present and like one of the, I still think this is like one of the funniest things about my wedding. We had, um, mingle is uh, like a Philadelphia based company and they do like non-alcoholic drinks or whatever and like we did the, his and hers cocktails or whatever and mine was a, was one of those mocktails and we ran out of'em like.

the-sober-butterfly_12_06-13-2025_184314: 1:09:30

Oh,

sarah_5_06-13-2025_184314: 1:09:30

was no other, like we had a couple of pregnant people at my wedding,

the-sober-butterfly_12_06-13-2025_184314: 1:09:34

oh,

sarah_5_06-13-2025_184314: 1:09:35

so many people were drinking them. And it was funny'cause I was talking to people because I was like, how are these gone? like later I was talking to people and like other friends and they were like, oh yeah, they just like tasted good. So I, and like me, I can't compute that. Like you stopped drinking alcohol

the-sober-butterfly_12_06-13-2025_184314: 1:09:51

that's amazing.

sarah_5_06-13-2025_184314: 1:09:52

Like, that doesn't work in my head, but

the-sober-butterfly_12_06-13-2025_184314: 1:09:54

But next time, leave me sound please.

sarah_5_06-13-2025_184314: 1:09:57

But it was so funny. Like it was such a, I was like, oh, like, that's great. Like we drank all of the, like, I have like non-alcoholic champagne so I could like still do the toasts and like, stuff like that. And yeah, I think it just made it like, made the day way more memorable for me. And like, I have gone to so many weddings, so drunk and like, so blacked out and like. I got to like, no one saw me anything but sober on my own wedding. And I remember the whole thing and it was like, and I had so much fun. Like I had the best time. Like I didn't have any less fun'cause I wasn't drinking. Like I just had a great time. And I also, I don't think I would've felt like, I think one of the, like one of the things. People at least I was not prepared for at my own wedding, is like the love that everybody else is like emanating at you is like, I never would've felt that if I was drunk.

the-sober-butterfly_12_06-13-2025_184314: 1:11:03

that's beautiful.

sarah_5_06-13-2025_184314: 1:11:05

it's so, it is like, I've never experienced that before.'cause like you, when you're sitting at a wedding and it's for someone you love, like you,

the-sober-butterfly_12_06-13-2025_184314: 1:11:12

Yeah.

sarah_5_06-13-2025_184314: 1:11:13

you feel yourself doing it. You're

the-sober-butterfly_12_06-13-2025_184314: 1:11:14

The energy you just, it radiate you were just like, oh my gosh. I'm so happy for you. Yes.

sarah_5_06-13-2025_184314: 1:11:18

but when you're like in it and like you're up, you know, doing your vows or when you're like having your dance, whatever it is, it's like that is a feeling that like have never felt, I'll probably never feel it again.'cause when are you in that situation? But it's like I never, that is something I never would've gotten to notice or experience if I was drinking at my wedding.

the-sober-butterfly_12_06-13-2025_184314: 1:11:38

That's beautiful. Yeah. You're quite literally calibrating on a higher energy level and like, uh, yeah, the presence part is amazing. Similar to you, I've been at more drunk weddings than I have sober, and I unfortunately remember I was my cousin's like maid of honor and I blacked out and gave my maid of honor toast. I, I have no idea what I had. Like, I was messing up, I think how long they, the couple had been together. This is my, my cousin that's like a sister to me, it's so embarrassing in front of our entire family. And also I'm like, have you seen those? Like, it was like a trend where it's like, I'm so and so, and I'm the, I'm,

sarah_5_06-13-2025_184314: 1:12:16

Yes.

the-sober-butterfly_12_06-13-2025_184314: 1:12:17

and this is my first drink. And then fast forward to like the end of the night and they're like literally face planted in the sand at the beach and the bride and the groom are doing it too. And I'm like. Cute. Like, like that doesn't even seem fun. Like what whatcha you guys doing? So yeah, don't want that to be my experience. Um,

sarah_5_06-13-2025_184314: 1:12:36

and it won't.

the-sober-butterfly_12_06-13-2025_184314: 1:12:37

and it won't if I, well we don't know Sarah'cause I don't even know if I'll ever get married. I'm chronically single over here. But maybe one day if you know somebody.

sarah_5_06-13-2025_184314: 1:12:46

If I find someone, I will let you

the-sober-butterfly_12_06-13-2025_184314: 1:12:48

Let me know. I like, literally, I can't, I'm trying not to, I shouldn't say I'm trying not to do the apps. I'm just so over everything right now. I'm depressed. Like quit literally. I'm like, I'm just hard line.

sarah_5_06-13-2025_184314: 1:12:59

probably like the last thing we wanna do right

the-sober-butterfly_12_06-13-2025_184314: 1:13:00

It's, yeah, that, that part, but I'm also like pressure of like. I'm 34. We've recognized I'm 33. I'm 34, and if I ever wanna have like, I don't know, a child one day I need to like, then you start to project, like literally I'm doing all the things I know I shouldn't be doing. I'm like doing the math. I'm like, if I don't meet someone tomorrow, then that means I'm not gonna have a baby until I'm like 36. And then I just, anyway. What a, what a great episode. We have talked about everything under the sun and like I still feel like there has to be a part to,'cause I genuinely, when I learn more about your experience and I feel like just being millennial girly is like a product of our time is just like, obviously been drinking in high school, moving into college then like we just came from a really messed up time.

sarah_5_06-13-2025_184314: 1:13:43

Yeah.

the-sober-butterfly_12_06-13-2025_184314: 1:13:44

Like thinking about skinny is everything, and just like the body dysmorphia and the eating and like, and like even connected to drinking. I had junk auryxia, like I could get into it so much with you. Um, so hopefully there can be a part too. I would love to shout some more with you,

sarah_5_06-13-2025_184314: 1:13:59

would love that.

the-sober-butterfly_12_06-13-2025_184314: 1:14:00

but, and. Essence. I just wanna say this has been an amazing conversation, Sarah, and I've learned so much about you and from you, and especially as it pertains to mental health and my mental health struggles that I'm currently working through right now, and I genuinely appreciate everything that you've shared with us. I would love to just open the platform for you to share how can people connect with you and any last notes that you have for us. We are all ears.

sarah_5_06-13-2025_184314: 1:14:29

Yeah. The easiest way to connect with me is to just, I will answer pretty much any like DM on Instagram. So like if you wanna get in touch with me personally. Just send me a message there. I think my email's also tied to it. It might take me a little bit because of my, my limits on socials, but like I will, I do get to it and it's important to me and like. like I'm always happy even there have been people on Instagram, like to this day I have like never met them in person, but like we have each other's numbers and like we check in on each other a lot. Like some of the people I'm closest to and know the most about my sobriety are people like that. And like I genuinely mean it.'cause like the last thing I want is for somebody to feel like they don't have somebody to talk to, um, when they're going through this. I think like that's probably the best way to get in touch with me. And I think just the only other thing. I think that's like worth saying as to like anybody that's listening that might be struggling, whether it's you're trying to figure out, know, if sobriety is the right thing for you, if you are in your sobriety or your recovery and you are like, I cannot do this, like for one more day, just like ask for help. I think asking for help is truly like the like bravest, strongest thing you can do for yourself and. Just don't have any shame around it and like, I think, yeah, asking for help can change much. But you have to be the one that does it.

the-sober-butterfly_12_06-13-2025_184314: 1:15:55

I love it. Thank you so much, sir, for being here. And I will plug, she stays sober. See, I said it right that time

sarah_5_06-13-2025_184314: 1:16:02

Perfect.

the-sober-butterfly_12_06-13-2025_184314: 1:16:03

it down. So the voice, um, uh, and listen, that's for folks to connect with you. Thank you for.

sarah_5_06-13-2025_184314: 1:16:09

Thank you.

the-sober-butterfly_1_06-20-2025_073918: 1:16:13

I'm so grateful to Sarah for sharing so openly about getting sober during a global crisis, about battling depression in sobriety recovery, and for helping me unpack some of the nuances and taboos that we don't always talk about in the sober space. If you're listening to this and you're struggling right now, whether that be mentally, emotionally, whatever, just know that you are not alone. Sobriety doesn't mean that everything magically gets better, but it does mean that you get to face life with clarity, support, and community. If you love this episode, please share it with a friend who needs to hear it. Please don't forget to subscribe, rate and review the Sober Butterfly on Apple Podcast or Spotify or wherever you're listening. It really helps others find the show and follow us on Instagram you can find our handles in the show notes. Until next time, remember, you don't have to be perfect to be powerful. Keep going, keep growing, and don't drink alcohol. I love you guys. Bye.