
The Sober Butterfly Podcast
The Sober Butterfly – A fun, unfiltered podcast for sober & sober-curious women! 🦋✨
Hosted by Nadine Mulvina, NYC-based content creator and sober travel expert, this podcast explores sober dating, alcohol-free living, harm reduction, addiction recovery, and mental health—with humor and honesty.
Expect real talk on:
✔️ Navigating sober dating & relationships
✔️ Thriving socially without alcohol
✔️ Sober travel & alcohol-free experiences
✔️ Harm reduction & recovery stories
✔️ Non-alcoholic drinks & sober events
Whether you're sober, sober-curious, or rethinking alcohol, The Sober Butterfly is here to inspire you. Subscribe now and join the sober revolution!
The Sober Butterfly Podcast
Slip: Eating Disorder Recovery, Sobriety & the 'Middle Place' with Mallary Tenore Tarpley
In this powerful and deeply personal episode of The Sober Butterfly Podcast, host Nadine sits down with journalism professor and author Mallary Tenore Tarpley to discuss the nuanced realities of eating disorder recovery—and its often-overlooked intersection with sobriety.
Mallary’s forthcoming book, Slip: Life in the Middle of Eating Disorder Recovery, explores the idea of the “middle place”—that in-between space where you’re no longer in crisis, but not yet fully healed. Together, Nadine and Mallary unpack their personal struggles with body dysmorphia, disordered eating, drunkorexia, and the pressure to appear “recovered.”
🔔 Trigger Warning: This episode includes discussion of eating disorders, body image, and co-occurring substance use. Please listen with care.
🔍 In This Episode:
- What it means to live in the “middle place” of recovery
- The overlap between eating disorders and substance abuse (aka “drunkorexia”)
- Social media’s impact on body image and recovery
- The difference between disordered eating and a clinical eating disorder
- How to practice self-compassion in non-linear healing journeys
- Nadine’s personal reflections on sobriety, mental health, and her recent sobriety anniversary
- Why recovery is ongoing—and that “slipping” doesn’t mean failing
📚 Pre-Order Mallary’s Book:
➡️ Slip: Life in the Middle of Eating Disorder Recovery
Pre-order here: https://amzn.to/40caUI6
Follow Mallary on Instagram
🦋 Let’s Stay Connected:
- Subscribe to The Sober Butterfly podcast
- Leave a ⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️ review if this episode resonated
- Follow Nadine on Instagram: @thesoberbutterfly
Please note that this episode may contain paid endorsements and advertisements for products and services. Individuals on the show may have a direct or indirect financial interest in products or services refereed to in this episode.
Well, hello. Hello, beautiful butterflies. Welcome back to the Sober Butterfly Podcast. I am Nadine, your host, and I am sorry. I just wanna open the episode by apologizing. I'm sorry I ghosted you last week. I promise I will address it at the end of today's episode, but I really do wanna frame today's episode for us because I am honored to be sitting down with Mallory Tanore Tarley a journalism professor at the University of Texas at Austin, and the author of the upcoming book, slip Life in the Middle of Eating Disorder Recovery. As someone who suffered from an unhealthy relationship with food and body image, for as long as I can remember, this conversation truly hits close to home. Together we unpack the concept of what Mallory calls the middle place in recovery, and that's the space between active illness and full healing and challenge the binary ideas of what recovery is supposed to look like. We also talk about how social media, grief and perfectionism shape our relationships with our bodies. This episode is for anyone who's ever felt like their struggle wasn't maybe serious enough to count, just this idea that you're not sick enough for it to actually count. Or for anyone who's ever wondered if a slip means they're failing, spoiler alert, it does not mean that you or anyone else is failing if you slip. Before we get into everything, I just want to issue a quick trigger warning as this episode discusses eating disorders, body image, and co-occurring substance use. If any of these topics are sensitive for you, please take care of yourself while listening. Let's get into it.
the-sober-butterfly_2_07-07-2025_173815:Mallory Ri Tarpley, welcome to the Sober Butterfly. How are you today?
mallary-tenore-tarpley--she-her-_2_07-07-2025_163815:I'm doing well. Thank you so much for having me. I am looking forward to this
the-sober-butterfly_2_07-07-2025_173815:I am looking forward to it as well. And we were chatting backstage because I feel like this conversation is so timely. I was telling you how, you know on the show, I alluded to the fact that I've struggled with disordered eating in the past, but I don't think I've been as forthcoming around. Currently, like my current present and still struggling with disordered eating, which connects to body image body dysmorphia, and just all of the ways in which food and my relationship with food have. Changed or evolved through the years. So I am happy to like really get into this conversation and I just wanna honor you for coming on today because I really appreciate it. In learning more about your story and also learning more about your upcoming book slip, I feel like it's a very timely conversation in the face of just my personal life, but also in regard to the advent of social media and all of the, the things happening, right? Like, that plus. All of the different weight loss medications on the market. There's just so many things. I want to open, actually that was a mouthful. Sorry, just thanking you. But I wanted to open to learn a little bit more, especially if the audience is unfamiliar with some of your work. I know your. A renowned journalist. I know that you have had your own personal journey when it comes to your relationship with food, so can you give us a bit of a, a brief of who Mallory is and the work that you do and why this work is so important? I.
mallary-tenore-tarpley--she-her-_2_07-07-2025_163815:Sure. So I teach journalism at the University of Texas at Austin, and I'm a journalist by trade. So I still write a lot of articles for journalistic publications especially articles around eating disorders and body image and. That is really important to me because I do have lived experience with an eating disorder. So I developed anorexia when I was 12 years old after my mother died of metastatic breast cancer and was in and out of treatment for most of my teenage years, and that was. Really difficult having to be away from school and being hospitalized and in residential treatment. And I, for a long time after leaving treatment, really felt like I needed to achieve the gold standard of full recovery. And yet I didn't really know what that meant. And so I tried to be perfect in my recovery, and I was fearful that if I made one wrong move or slipped just once. That I would slide back into dangerous territory and get sick, but that was really exhausting to live in these extremes of thinking that I could only be either fully recovered or acutely sick. And so I went off to college and I ended up relapsing in college and struggled for many years with binge eating and restricting. Dane and was caught in this vicious cycle that lasted well over a decade. But that whole time I kept telling people that I was still fully recovered because I was too ashamed to admit that I was anything. But, it wasn't until I started working with journalists in my late twenties and I was training journalists on how to tell restorative narratives, which are essentially stories that show how people in communities. Can make meaningful progress after trauma, after illness. I was helping journalists tell these stories and it occurred to me that it could be a really helpful framework for my own recovery. And so I started to think about this more and I started to come up with this language around what I call the middle place, which is this grace face in between acute sickness and full recovery, which we can talk more about, but. I started to think more about rather than trying to aim for this perfectionistic ideal, a full recovery, what if I tried to think about recovery as this messy middle where there's always potential for progress, but slips happen. And slips don't have to be grounds for failure, but they can be opportunities for growth. And so I write a lot about that in the book and I conducted hundreds of interviews with people to get at a better sense of whether or not this middle place is populous. And if it's. Common. And come to find out, it is very common, but we don't talk about it very much in the eating disorder field. And so part of what is really important to me as a writer and as someone with lived experience, is to help people feel like they have the language to describe where they're at in their recovery and to be truthful about that and to not feel stigma and shame around being in recovery as opposed to being fully recovered.
the-sober-butterfly_2_07-07-2025_173815:Wow. I am, I'm just drawing so many parallels from what you shared. So thank you for sharing all of that. Just to back up, I wanna say sorry about losing your mom at 12. And then coupled with being at such a vulnerable age, it's never easy losing your parent. I unfortunately lost my father at 19 And I always had, I would say, a complicated very convoluted relationship with food binging and restricting that cycle, that very toxic cycle growing up as an adolescent. But I would say at the point in time in which it became very real for me was when I lost my father, and that's when my eating disorder, I've never actually said eating disorder for some reason, Mallory, it just. Feels better to say disordered eating. I think that's a common phrase I hear instead of saying what it calling it what it is. A s spade for a spade. I had an eating disorder in college and it reared its very ugly head at the precise time that my father died and it was me grasping. For now I can see grasping for control, feeling like losing him very unexpectedly. Just, I felt like my whole life was crumbling and everything around me was changing and I didn't like the pace in which everything was changing. And then, you know, you experience such a profound loss and life keeps going. And so it was me basically saying, Nope, I'm going to, I was always like a perfectionist or a perfectionist type, but the food restriction really, really weird. Its ugly head around the same time that my drinking. I won't say escalated per se, because I was a binge drinker up until that point, especially in college. But it was where my drinking changed and I started to drink in secrecy. I started to drink alone and these weren't things I'd done before. So it, that was another thing that flared up for me around the same time. And then to
mallary-tenore-tarpley--she-her-_2_07-07-2025_163815:like
the-sober-butterfly_2_07-07-2025_173815:continue from that point, you know, I oscillated back and forth with. Eating disorders. Disorders, really disordered eating. And then I love when you mentioned. A slip is not necessarily, we didn't use this exact verbiage, but it sounds like a slip is not a failure. It's about having the power of the language to actually convey where you are. And I think as someone that's programmed or hardwired to think it must be perfect or it's not good enough, and therefore it's void or invalid, makes me feel. Like there's a space for me, right? There's a space, and that can pertain to anything that someone's working toward or striving toward. There is not necessarily a perfect way to recover or be recovered. So thank you for sharing all of that. And I'm just curious to learn from you too, Mallory. Do you find through your work or through your own lived experience. Do you find that there is an intersection between people who suffer from substance abuse or substance use and disordered eating slash eating disorders?
mallary-tenore-tarpley--she-her-_2_07-07-2025_163815:Yes. Well, thank you so much for sharing more of your story too. I really appreciate that, and I think that your story just speaks to a really common thread that I saw in many of the interviews that I did with people with lived experience. I. Because I talked with many people who struggled with both eating disorders and substance abuse, and that for me was really striking because it prompted me to include those narratives in the book, but also to look into some of the research around that because I thought, hmm, there's probably something to this if I am hearing from so many people who have said that there is this overlap. And what's interesting is that research does support this notion that there is a kind of shared comorbidity between people with eating disorders and substance abuse users. And so there was this really interesting study that I had looked at from the National Center on Addiction and Substance Abuse, and they actually found that up to 50% of people with eating disorders, abuse, drugs, or alcohol compared with 9% of the general population. And they found that substance abuse appears to be highest among people who experience binge eating during their eating disorder. And so I think there's a few different reasons for this high comorbidity, but some people use drugs or alcohol to self-medicate as we know, and to kind of escape the agony of their eating disorder. Then other times people will use substances that suppress appetite, which sets this really harmful cycle in motion. And in that case, food restriction increases someone's vulnerability to taking the substance, and then the substance in turn can decrease appetite. So that results in greater food restriction and weight loss. And so. There's a lot of overlap here, and I don't think we have that many conversations about the overlap, and I think it's really important to recognize that many people struggle with both, and I think we need to be having more conversations about that.
the-sober-butterfly_2_07-07-2025_173815:Absolutely, and I mean like I know that you're a professor at a university, so that's a point in time where I. I felt like my eating disorder was probably at its worst, and it's interesting as well because. My friends and I, once again, we were never calling it an eating disordered disorder or even disordered eating. It was just, I want to present a cer certain way. I wanna look a certain way, and I'm not sure if you're familiar with the term Mallory, drunk Auryxia or if it's more of like a buzz term. I know it's not a medical term. However, drunk Auryxia is something that I recognize I very much struggled with and not just myself. I won't speak for every friend I had, but a lot of young women. In my circle of friends, we would basically restrict ourselves all day because we wanted to wear the crop top. We wanted to look a certain way, and I remember, and I hope this is not triggering for some peoples, but I distinctly remember, I. Like knowing I did a good enough job of restricting myself because I could feel the shot, the alcohol, like whatever it was, like the potency, literally going down my esophagus. Like that was how I knew, I did it. Okay, great. I'm gonna be skinny and I'm gonna black out faster. And that was usually the, the two goals I had in mind. Like I wanted to look the skinniest as possible and I wanted to get the drunkest as possible. And that just. That constant cycle. I'm just thinking back to a how, how do people survive that? But to your point, I just don't think that we talk. As openly about, you know, this as a society, but then even within my inner circle, even amongst my friends, like, it was not something that we blatantly ever discussed, but it was something that we were often doing together. It was this idea of like camaraderie and community, which was very toxic around bonding. Hey, I'm gonna get drunk faster than you because I haven't eaten anything today. So it's just a really. Sad place to be and I'm glad I'm not there anymore. And I, I, I will say that since getting sober four years ago, I have found that my disordered eating or eating disorder has taken on. I, I'm not recovered, I'll be honest. So, you know, speaking of that middle ground, like I'm not fully recovered. I'm still very much obsessed with what I eat. I'm not counting calories, I'm not as extreme as I have been. I'm not over exercising. That's something else I would do where if I did eat, I would like quote, punish myself by over exercising to compensate. Like I'm not doing those things, but it's something that. I don't know what a normal brain or how it works because I'm only living in this vessel. But every day, Mallory, I wake up thinking about food or thinking about like what I'm gonna eat today. And I, that might be normal, but I think there's something unhealthy or insidious about it. As someone who has struggled with food and my relationship with food and my body image, I'm, I think I'm fearful. I think I'm afraid of food sometimes. I'm afraid that I don't trust myself enough. I trust my body enough to do what it needs to do in order to not gain weight like I'm af. I'm afraid of gaining weight, and that's really sad to say. As a 34-year-old who has pretty much been the same weight for the last 10 to 12 years, I don't even have to get on the scale to check. I can just look at myself and check. So I'm saying a lot. Is that something that other people constantly live with when you refer to this middle ground or this space in which we're not quite. At the pinnacle, at Maslow's, top of the pyramid, I'm self-actualized and everything's great, and I never have to worry about this again. Like what do you find, what sorts of things are people saying in regards to not fully being there, but like maybe they're working on it or is there a final destination? Is there a final place of recovered, so to speak?
mallary-tenore-tarpley--she-her-_2_07-07-2025_163815:Yeah. It's such an important conversation and to have, and I think that there certainly are people who do consider themselves to be fully recovered, and I include their perspectives in the book. So I don't wanna discredit their experiences because for many, they believe that they are over their eating disorder. One thing that was especially interesting is that in some cases, I interviewed people who at the beginning of the conversation said, well, I'm fully recovered. But then as we delve deeper into this concept of the middle place, they came away thinking, well, maybe I'm actually in the middle place, and maybe that's not such a bad place. To be because they didn't necessarily have any other language to describe their recovery other than this notion that they were fully recovered. And so for me, I think that one of the sort of challenges is that we are really limited sometimes in our definitions of what full recovery means. And so. Sometimes if you look at the research, you'll find that there are almost as many definitions of full recovery from an eating disorder as there are studies about it, and that really complicates matters. And it's no wonder that people with lived experience have questions around what does it mean to even be fully recovered. And in some of these cases, definitions of full recovery are limited to BMI, for instance. So ba body mass index. Other times they are sort of looking just. At the elimination of eating disorder behaviors. But one of the aspects that is sometimes left out of definitions of full recovery is the cognitive aspects. So it gets at what you are speaking to, which is those thoughts and those ruminations around food and weight and body size. And those can be really the hardest things to shake in recovery. And I think many of us who. We this middle place may not necessarily be exhibiting behaviors as we once were. Maybe we still have some lingering behaviors, but they're not necessarily ones that would land us in the hospital or that would require us to need critical care. But. Many times it's those thoughts, right? That just linger and that continue to be there. And those can be really difficult to shake when you have lived with an eating disorder for most of your life. And I think that that is part of what makes recovery so challenging. I think too, it is a really hard society to recover into. So one of the doctors I interviewed introduced me to this concept called normative discontent, which is just a fancy term to describe this. or the series of words that researchers came up with to basically describe the fact that in our society, the vast majority of men and women have some level of discontent with their body to the point where it's normal. And so to think that we're going to recover from our eating disorder and never have a bad body image day or never have a disordered thought is pretty unrealistic. Stick in our society. And so I think we need to remind ourselves of that and give ourselves grace recognizing that we don't always have to love our body. It's great if we do, but we may not get to that point where we ever love our body, but maybe we can come to appreciate our body. Maybe we can come to. of neutralize food and think of it as fuel as opposed to thinking of it as something that's either good or bad. And so I think we need to be mindful of that, but also we need to be thinking about how do we continue to find ways to progress in the middle place? Because I think that sometimes it's tricky living in this. Space because many people think, oh, well, you're just settling for Stagnance in the middle place, and that's not the case, right? I think many of us in this middle place are struggling to some degree, but we wanna continue to move forward. And so I think that part of that process of moving forward is recognizing when those. Thoughts creep up, but also recognizing when you make a choice in service of recovery. So you
the-sober-butterfly_2_07-07-2025_173815:Mm.
mallary-tenore-tarpley--she-her-_2_07-07-2025_163815:thought, you recognize it, but you don't let that dictate your behavior.
the-sober-butterfly_2_07-07-2025_173815:Right.
mallary-tenore-tarpley--she-her-_2_07-07-2025_163815:okay, I am going to still eat the ice cream that I want to eat, even if I feel that I shouldn't. And if you end up having the thought, and it does lead to a disordered behavior, recognizing that, okay, I had a slip, but that doesn't mean that I need to let that turn into a slide. Right. And I
the-sober-butterfly_2_07-07-2025_173815:Right.
mallary-tenore-tarpley--she-her-_2_07-07-2025_163815:that's where that perfectionistic thinking comes in, where you think, well, I had one drink, so I might as well just drink the whole bottle.
the-sober-butterfly_2_07-07-2025_173815:All or nothing. Mm-hmm.
mallary-tenore-tarpley--she-her-_2_07-07-2025_163815:right.
the-sober-butterfly_2_07-07-2025_173815:Black and white thinking.
mallary-tenore-tarpley--she-her-_2_07-07-2025_163815:so might as well just eat the whole carton. And I think that's where we can get into a, a sticky situation. And so I think part of recovery is acknowledging the slip. Recognizing it, not stigmatizing it, not demonizing it, and saying, okay, I. Like, I had this slip today. Maybe I did eat most of the carton of the ice cream, but that doesn't mean I have to restrict the whole next day. It
the-sober-butterfly_2_07-07-2025_173815:Yeah.
mallary-tenore-tarpley--she-her-_2_07-07-2025_163815:back on track. And
the-sober-butterfly_2_07-07-2025_173815:Yeah.
mallary-tenore-tarpley--she-her-_2_07-07-2025_163815:a lot of this is about giving ourselves grace in this very messy and ongoing recovery process.
the-sober-butterfly_2_07-07-2025_173815:I love that so much. Give yourself grace that's applicable to so much, so much life. I'm curious to learn from you, Mallory, what is the inclusivity like in the eating disorder realm? And I ask that question because I feel so often that, and this can apply for sobriety as well. If you don't present a certain way, right, if, and there's all these images, right? Misconceptions and not anecdotes. What am I looking for right now? Sorry, archetypes. There are all of these archetypes around like. What, for example, I know a lot about drinking, so like what the alcoholic looks like. Brown paperback, losing your wife and kids, right? Like a point of no return. I, I'm curious to learn what does that, how does that extend itself? I. When it comes to eating disorders, because so often I think we think of BMI, like you mentioned before, like very physical indicators, which, you know, sometimes yes they can be telling and that's great intel for you to seek help and go seek that professional help and, and heal or start that healing process. But what about the person who doesn't have an unhealthy BMI or a person who may actually. Can be considered overweight when it comes to their BMI, but yet they're still struggling. So like do you find that there is limited or less inclusivity around eating disorders in the that community? And is there work to be done or can we do anything to help those who are suffering but may not present as though they are suffering?
mallary-tenore-tarpley--she-her-_2_07-07-2025_163815:Yes. I think that it's such an important question because there are so many misconceptions around who does and doesn't struggle with eating disorders, and that's part of why I didn't want my own book to be just about my own story because in many ways I do fit that stereotypical mold of someone with an eating disorder and that I am white, I identify as female. I live in a smaller body, I'm middle to upper class. And I wanted to be able to show that people of all different genders and ages and races and ethnicities struggle with eating disorders. And yet we know that because of a lack of awareness around eating disorders, many people who don't fit that stereotypical mold are not necessarily getting the treatment that they need. There's research to support that, and part of this speaks to a larger systemic issue around the lack of medical training on eating disorders. So research shows that doctors get between zero and two hours of training on eating disorders, which is mind-boggling.
the-sober-butterfly_2_07-07-2025_173815:What.
mallary-tenore-tarpley--she-her-_2_07-07-2025_163815:Right. When you consider the fact that 30 million Americans will have an eating disorder in their lifetime, it seems that we should really be talking a lot more about eating disorders in med. Schools, and yet we're not. So much more of the emphasis is on obesity. And so because of that, there are many people who try to seek treatment and they are denied treatment or they're told that they don't have a problem because to your point, they may be in a larger body or maybe they're not critically underweight. There's this whole classification of eating disorders and it's called atypical anorexia. It's essentially where someone meets all of the diagnostic criteria for anorexia nervosa, but they're not clinically underweight. And
the-sober-butterfly_2_07-07-2025_173815:I see.
mallary-tenore-tarpley--she-her-_2_07-07-2025_163815:that there are some people who severely restrict and they experience many harmful physical side effects because of that. But due to genetics and other factors, they don't end up losing weight to the point where they are severely underweight. And yet we know that their condition is just as serious in many cases, if not
the-sober-butterfly_2_07-07-2025_173815:you.
mallary-tenore-tarpley--she-her-_2_07-07-2025_163815:Right. And so often those people just take so much longer to actually be able to get the help that they need. And I talked with many people who said that they were either denied treatment or couldn't get it, and I think that within the eating disorder field, there's so much more awareness around this now, and there's. So many conversations happening in eating disorder conferences and in research around the need to really broaden people's scope of understanding around eating disorders. And so I think the field itself is doing a lot of really important work to advance care and to advance awareness. But I think that the population at large and the medical community at large still has so much to learn, and I think we need to get to the point ideally where everyone who needs help for an eating disorder can get it and is
the-sober-butterfly_2_07-07-2025_173815:Yes.
mallary-tenore-tarpley--she-her-_2_07-07-2025_163815:against. But I think we still have a really long way to go before we get to that point.
the-sober-butterfly_2_07-07-2025_173815:Yeah, I imagine as someone who may seek help. And go to like a medical professional, like a doctor and say, Hey, I'm struggling. And then the doctor side eyeing them or looking at them strangely because they don't present in that way can be really defeating and life threatening. And even myself and like preparing for this conversation,
mallary-tenore-tarpley--she-her-_2_07-07-2025_163815:all
the-sober-butterfly_2_07-07-2025_173815:a lot of the things I was thinking about
mallary-tenore-tarpley--she-her-_2_07-07-2025_163815:about.
the-sober-butterfly_2_07-07-2025_173815:was as it pertains to myself as a woman. And then this audience that we have at the Super Butterfly are mostly women, but men also very much suffer if not. Maybe more detrimentally because it's just not something that we think of when we think of boys or men struggling with eating disorders. And that stigma very much lives in that sense of belonging to a community as well. So I'm actually thinking back to, I won't name anyone, but like I'm thinking back to an ex who I think really did struggle with eating. And that's not something that we ever talked about because. They didn't feel comfortable and it was, you know, understandably so. Thank you for mentioning that. I would love to learn. Is eating, having an eating disorder, is that on a spectrum as well? Like alcohol use disorder is on a spectrum. And when you refer to that middle place would you say that is falling on that spectrum? I'm just trying to learn from someone who's not as well versed when it comes to the, like the medical language around. What an eating disorder is and how it's classified. Is it a physical disorder? Is it mental? Is it both? Because you know, we are telling ourselves that we don't need to eat even though we have access to food or whatever it may be. Not eat is one example. So yeah. How would you define it for listeners at home and for myself?
mallary-tenore-tarpley--she-her-_2_07-07-2025_163815:Yeah, so it is both a physical and a mental disorder. And so those two things go hand in hand and often the physical symptoms will exacerbate the disordered thoughts. And then the disordered thoughts lead to disordered behaviors, which then impact our physical health. And so it's all really closely interwoven. We also know that there are many brain-based alterations that occur when someone has an eating disorder. And so around, especially around anorexia, there's been a lot of research looking at what happens to the brain when someone restricts their food intake. And so there's a lot of actual brain shrinkage that can happen. With
the-sober-butterfly_2_07-07-2025_173815:Really.
mallary-tenore-tarpley--she-her-_2_07-07-2025_163815:in particular. Yes. And it's fascinating to look at the research. It can also be a little bit nerve wracking to look at it, but. There is a lot of research also showing that once someone does restore their weight and they are nutritionally rehabilitated, then that shrinkage normalizes. But that shrinkage can cause loss of brain cells and a lack of connection between them. And so there's. So much at play there. And I think many people think that eating disorders are simply a choice. And I remember family members and others would say, why can't you just eat Mallory? Right? Or just
the-sober-butterfly_2_07-07-2025_173815:That's so.
mallary-tenore-tarpley--she-her-_2_07-07-2025_163815:a scale. It's not helpful at all. And I mean, back then when I was really. Struggling in the late 1990s, there was so little understanding of eating disorders and we really didn't know about the neurobiology of them. We didn't know that they were brain disorders. And scientists actually now have gotten to the point where they do call them brain disorders just because of how much they impact the brain. And so I think that in learning more about that research, it's. Certainly gave me empathy for my younger self because it helped me to understand why I so quickly got stuck in these cognitive ruts and why it was so hard to get out of them because there are these factors at play. Also, there are genetic components to eating disorders, and so there are certain aspects of the eating disorder that. Maybe we don't have control over in terms of just the development of the eating disorder. And certainly genetics alone don't determine whether or not someone will develop an eating disorder. There are genetic risk factors, but there's also genetic protective factors. And then we have environmental risk factors, environmental protective factors but genetics can play into it. And so these eating disorders are very complicated and I think that we do ourselves a disservice if we think about them. As only being disorders that are about losing weight because they're about so much more than that. And they're about so much more than food at the end of the day. Right. And so I think we need to really recognize that as we think about the totality of eating disorders and the various ways in which eating disorders can take shape.
the-sober-butterfly_2_07-07-2025_173815:Thank you for sharing that.
the-sober-butterfly_3_07-07-2025_180645:This is so helpful. I think specific to eating disorders, there is sort of this double entendre, so to speak, where eating disorders, we know today in 2025, we shouldn't have an eating disorder. I shouldn't say we shouldn't have we. We don't want to encourage folks to have eating disorders. However, something I touched on before, mass media, all of the images that are flooding our timelines, flooding just every. Aspect of our schema that make up how we see the world. Skinny is in it. It goes through like there's different fads and like we went through the Kardashian curvy phase, whatever it may be, the BBLs. But now even they, you know, with their enlarged buttocks have the tiniest teeniest waist and everyone's skinny, whether it's naturally or unhealthily or through ozempic or beta blockers or whatever it may be through. Many means it, it feels like we are going through, for me as a millennial girl, it feels like a second coming. Like I feel like we're kind of regressing back to the late 1990s, early two thousands. When you mentioned the late nineties, I immediately thought Ali McBeal and just like the plethora of different eating disorders on that show and just like, anyway, I feel like we're kind of regressing back to that, but yet it's sort of. From on the tails of body positivity, like we're like, oh, we celebrate our body and our differences and being in different shapes and sizes. But yet now the standard again, seems to be like skinny is in so. I guess my question to you is how do you feel, first of all, about just the ways in which we are seeing all of these different projections of thinness and how it's virtue signaling in a way, like not explicitly stated, but it very much is the underlying message it feels like. So my question is, yeah, what are your sentiments around that? And then also how can we protect ourselves? I'm a 34-year-old woman and I'm like, help me, Mallory. How do I protect myself from, I understand that this is not always healthy or real, but at the same time I can't help. It's still sinking or seeping into my psyche, my subconscious, and then I'm even thinking about younger people. How do they protect themselves? Like so yeah, any thoughts around this and like how we can actually maybe create different parameters to protect our mental health and our peace.
mallary-tenore-tarpley--she-her-_3_07-07-2025_170645:Yes. So I do think that we have S SW in this other direction where for a while we were talking a lot about body positivity and loving our bodies, and now we have really started talking so much more about just the beauty of being skinny and why that's important. And I think that that has really exacerbated. Issues for people with eating disorders. And it does scare me in some ways when I think about just how easy it can be to get these weight loss drugs. I don't wanna demonize them because I know GLP ones can be helpful for some individuals, and particularly those with diabetes. So I never wanna put people down for taking them. But I think at the same time, when we consider just the lack of medical training around eating disorders. And we think about how people who are either predisposed to having an eating disorder oof, or who may have had one in the past or who still have one they're in a much riskier situation if they take these drugs. And I think that there needs to be greater awareness around that. There's so much noise around Ozempic and Manjaro and all of these different drugs, and I can't even drive in the car anymore without hearing an ad for some of these weight loss
the-sober-butterfly_3_07-07-2025_180645:I know.
mallary-tenore-tarpley--she-her-_3_07-07-2025_170645:very quickly turned them down because I admittedly don't want my seven and 9-year-old to just be bombarded with this messaging because I think that you're right, it does tend to sink in and it's so hard to avoid it, and. I hope that rather than talking in these extremes of you either love your body or you've got to be on these weight loss drugs, I think we need to find some sort of middle ground. I like to think about our bodies as being not some ornament, but more of an instrument. And that's a phrase that I often will repeat to myself. The body is not an ornament, it's an instrument.
the-sober-butterfly_3_07-07-2025_180645:like that.
mallary-tenore-tarpley--she-her-_3_07-07-2025_170645:get through my day. And
the-sober-butterfly_3_07-07-2025_180645:Mm-hmm.
mallary-tenore-tarpley--she-her-_3_07-07-2025_170645:I think that's important. Just sort of thinking about how do we counteract. Some of these messages that may be really toxic for us, particularly if we've struggled with eating disorders or disordered eating, and how do we counteract that with a different message? And I also try really hard not to look at.
the-sober-butterfly_3_07-07-2025_180645:Mm-hmm.
mallary-tenore-tarpley--she-her-_3_07-07-2025_170645:That people find to still post this type of content. I, especially on Instagram, I've really tried to tailor my feed around people who are eating disorder specialists who believe in health at every size and who are pro recovery. And so I've had to work hard at finding those people, I liking their posts and following them. And then I follow a lot of authors, so I'm really strategic about who I follow and how I interact with others on that. Platform because I know that the minute I start looking up anything around ozempic or disordered eating, I'm going to get flooded with posts about that. And so I think we need to be really mindful of just the ways in which this content reaches us when we aren't even necessarily seeking it out. Lastly, I will just say too that years ago there were all these different forums on Tumblr and other
the-sober-butterfly_3_07-07-2025_180645:I
mallary-tenore-tarpley--she-her-_3_07-07-2025_170645:that were. Yes, like the
the-sober-butterfly_3_07-07-2025_180645:Oh.
mallary-tenore-tarpley--she-her-_3_07-07-2025_170645:anorexia, the pro bulimia forums, and what was detrimental about those among so many things was the fact that they were really catering toward people with eating disorders. And they were a place where you could go to get tips on how to be better at your eating disorder.
the-sober-butterfly_3_07-07-2025_180645:Yeah.
mallary-tenore-tarpley--she-her-_3_07-07-2025_170645:yeah,
the-sober-butterfly_3_07-07-2025_180645:Wait, can I say one thing, Mallory? At least with those. On the, the Tumblr post and all of that craziness. At least they were very like, open, like it was transparent. Like I, I'm gonna tell you something toxic. I think what's inherently scary and dangerous about social media and like skinny talk, which yes, it's been banned, but like they're not, it's a lot more craftier, it's a lot more subtle. And I think that makes it more insidious and more scary because if I'm a young person, even as an adult, I'm like. Oh, I'm, I'm, you have a call to action. I'm leaning in like, oh, what are you talking about? You're just, you know, parading around your room, little outfit. But then you're really telling me how skinny is your favorite accessory, like, you know, and that, that's the end message. So anyway, I just wanted to say that like, at least with those early, like mid to 20 two thousands, like they were very upfront about, I'm telling you something that you should not be listening to, but like take notes versus now it's like presented in a very skillful, deceptive way.
mallary-tenore-tarpley--she-her-_3_07-07-2025_170645:Yes, I think you're absolutely right and I. Totally agree because I think that with those forums, it was somewhat of a more niche audience, and then it was really specifically for people with eating disorders and they were still incredibly pernicious. But I think what's really harmful about these trends that we're seeing on social media platforms is that they are really being marketed to just the masses. And so they are sort of people who are saying, well, this is not a diet, because I think the word diet has become somewhat of a dirty word and. Yes. And many people will say, well, you can eat anything you want. But then there's the caveat that yes, you can eat pizza, but you should only have half a slice as opposed to two slices. Or you can have ice cream, but you should only allow yourself two bites. Right? And so it's this really just conflicting messaging and a lot of people are sharing this messaging around. The guise of wellness. Right. And I think wellness has become somewhat of this catchphrase and a little bit of a trap because people think, well, I'm just looking at this content because it's going to help me be healthier. It's going to contribute to my wellbeing. Not recognizing that it's very much laced with diet, culture and fat
the-sober-butterfly_3_07-07-2025_180645:Yes, yes.
mallary-tenore-tarpley--she-her-_3_07-07-2025_170645:and that's incredibly toxic.
the-sober-butterfly_3_07-07-2025_180645:so glad you mentioned that specifically that nothing grinds my gears more because I feel like I need to do a better job of curating my feed better. And what I mean by that is similar to what you mentioned, like following post or accounts that are more aligned with what I want to be and represent because I still follow the models. I still follow like some of these girlies who let's be real, they'll be like this is what I eat in a day. And it's like, no, but no, you don't like, so like it's, it's like, yes. Like I've seen the ones where it's like, yeah, half, half a slice pizza. But what makes me more upset actually, it is infuriating and I get indignant is when people are like, oh yeah, I eat this and this and that. And it's like carb, carb, carb, carb, carb, fat, fat, fat. Just sugar, sugar, sugar. And it's like, but you don't eat that. Like, we didn't get to actually see you eat that. Like you're just putting this on to like, I don't know, portray this essence of like effortless, skinny. And then that drives me crazy.'cause I feel like that has mixed messaging as well. Like, you know, you think you can just eat that and how come I can't eat that and still be 110 pounds? I'm really confused at five 11. But just doesn't add, the math is not mapping.
mallary-tenore-tarpley--she-her-_3_07-07-2025_170645:No, exactly, and I feel like what we eat is our business. We don't need to be touting that on social media. We don't need to be knowing what other people are eating that is not for other people to know about. At least not in a public space. And so I don't think that those conversations are productive in any sort of way.
the-sober-butterfly_3_07-07-2025_180645:They don't help. It's like every body is different, right? Everyone has a different budget, diet. All of the things, like when I say diet, not like in the restrictive way, like this is a lifestyle thing. I'm. To go back, I would love to learn from you, Mallory. A couple of things. One being how can someone recognize, or if they're listening to this conversation today and they're like, I am hearing some things, I. Should I be concerned? Could you kind of break down for us, like how can someone maybe start to pay attention to any signs or symptoms that they are struggling with an eating disorder and just for once and for all, can we say, is there a difference between eating disorder and disordered eating? Like, can I say that I struggle with disorder eating and is that the same thing as saying I have an eating disorder or I'm working in that middle ground with my eating disorder? So yeah. What are your thoughts around that?
mallary-tenore-tarpley--she-her-_3_07-07-2025_170645:Yeah, so I mean, I think that a lot of people who say they struggle with disordered eating, in fact do have eating disorders, but they are in denial
the-sober-butterfly_3_07-07-2025_180645:sounds nicer. Why does it sound nicer? Why does it.
mallary-tenore-tarpley--she-her-_3_07-07-2025_170645:Yes, I know. And I mean, there's this phrase that in the eating disorder field called sick enough, and it is reflective of this book by Dr. Jennifer Guarani and it's, it's basically talks about how many people with eating disorders don't believe they're sick enough to get care or treatment. And I think many people who struggle with disordered eating have that same feeling where they think, well, I'm not sick enough to actually qualify as having an eating disorder. Or going back to what we talked about earlier, I don't look the part of someone with an eating
the-sober-butterfly_3_07-07-2025_180645:I. You know?
mallary-tenore-tarpley--she-her-_3_07-07-2025_170645:underweight, so I don't have an eating disorder. And so there are many people who go throughout their lives who probably would be diagnosed with an eating disorder if they actually sought help, but they just believe that it's disordered eating, and so they don't. There are differences between eating disorders and disordered eating. So sometimes people may have disordered eating habits where maybe they occasionally binge on food and it feels very out of control, but it's not something that is happening multiple times a week. It's just something that happens occasionally. for instance, maybe someone has a tendency to restrict when they are in a stressful situation, but it's not something that is recurring and they don't have disordered thoughts around it. And so sometimes when these disordered behaviors happen but they're not part of sort of this ongoing set of behaviors, then it may be that there are more in that camp of people who have disordered eating because there are. Specific criteria for actually having a diagnosed eating disorder. But that being said, I really don't like getting caught up in labels because I think that so many people, right, to your point, struggle with disordered eating and whether it's disordered eating or an eating disorder, if it feels like it's taking over a lot of time and mental. Space than it is something that is deserving of treatment, right? Or deserving of help. And so I think so many people struggle silently and just never ask for that help. And so I would say for those listeners who are feeling like they are struggling in some way, shape or form with their body image, with their eating disordered thoughts or behaviors. I would say try to seek help for that. And help is a very broad term, right? I think that help could be sometimes just talking with a spouse or partner or friend and being able to actually have a conversation about these behaviors because we know that I. Our secrets keep us stuck and they often keep us sick. The more we can really talk with people who we trust and can confide in about what we're struggling with, I think the better. In some cases it may mean right, trying to see an eating disorder specialist or a dietician, I. I still see a therapist and a dietician because that's important to me to try to maintain recovery knowing that I'm not fully recovered. And so I think that trying to seek that help can be important. One of the things too is just noticing if you have changes. In just your desire to socialize with people. Because very often eating disorders lead to isolation. They lead to just people not wanting to socialize, not wanting to eat in public. And so I think we don't wanna ignore those warning signs because we know from research that the earlier someone receives treatment, the better the prognosis will be long term. And I think, although I talk about the middle place as being this space in between acute sickness and full recovery, I think it's also an apt term for this. Space in between a trigger and one's dissent into an eating disorder. And that middle place is a really precarious place that can often get overlooked because people are either in denial that they have a problem or others aren't saying anything and recognizing it. And that's the space where we really need to intervene and try to get ourselves help or help others if we see that they're in this space where they seem to be developing disordered behaviors.
the-sober-butterfly_3_07-07-2025_180645:Wow. It's the exact same blueprint for me, recognizing that I had a problem with alcohol wrestling between the semantics of language. Am I an alcoholic? Am I just agreeing? Area drinker. It's like, I need help, but like, do you need help? Yes, I need help. And I love that you said help comes in various forms. I agree with that. It sometimes can be a bit daunting and we overwhelm ourselves just thinking about the next step of like getting help. And it's like, it legitimately could be turning to your spouse or turning to your best friend and saying, I don't, I don't know how I'm feeling, but something. I need to talk to you about this. Like, I'm, I'm feeling a little bit off, or is this normal? Asking que questions, getting curious. Like, don't Google, do I have a eating disorder again? Please don't ever do that. Don't Google, am I an alcoholic? You're, you're going to be led astray. Just focus on only, you know, it's like this inner knowing. That's how I knew it was time. I, I stayed stuck for so long, just like trying to figure it out. Like, am I sick enough to get help or no, that's the wrong mindset. It's just like, do you feel like something is off? Is it this thing that is sort of, compete, competing? Like is it something that it feels all consuming in some regards or this obsessive nature? Like the compulsion is, is me thinking about, you know, my next drink or thinking about, oh, I ate that yesterday, so today I have to be extra good. And like that part is exhausting. What part, and this can be for you, Mallory, or for some of the clients that you've worked with or people you've interviewed, I shouldn't say clients, people that you've spoken with to interview for your book slip. What do you find? Either personally or anecdotally has been the hardest part of seeking recovery for people?
mallary-tenore-tarpley--she-her-_3_07-07-2025_170645:Yeah, so think one of the hardest parts is that we all developed an eating disorder because at one point in time we thought that it served a purpose. So for me, I. really fell into my eating disorder after my mother died because I felt so far away from her when she died. And I remember wanting to just feel closer to her. And I thought that if I stayed the same size I was when she was alive, that maybe I could be closer to her. And so for me it was never about trying to be skinny, but really about trying to stay small and safe. And I couldn't control what happened to my mother's body when she got. Cancer, but I could control what I put into mine. And so I thought that it would give me some semblance of control, thought it would help me feel closer to my mother. And for a brief time it did. But ultimately, the eating disorder left me feeling wildly out of control and left me feeling farther away than ever from my mother. And. A big part of my recovery was really unpacking the origins of the eating disorder because there were so many different factors at play. I had also taken a health class where we were learning about good foods and quote unquote bad foods, and we were weighed in front of the class and
the-sober-butterfly_3_07-07-2025_180645:No,
mallary-tenore-tarpley--she-her-_3_07-07-2025_170645:was not unheard of at the time.
the-sober-butterfly_3_07-07-2025_180645:you are weighed publicly.
mallary-tenore-tarpley--she-her-_3_07-07-2025_170645:Yes. Yeah. It was really
the-sober-butterfly_3_07-07-2025_180645:step on the scale. You're up next. Mal what? And people step on the scale.
mallary-tenore-tarpley--she-her-_3_07-07-2025_170645:Yes. It was really daunting, even for me as a child who was in a smaller body. I felt mortified just doing that in a public
the-sober-butterfly_3_07-07-2025_180645:Yeah.
mallary-tenore-tarpley--she-her-_3_07-07-2025_170645:And yeah, I mean, even today there are. It's called BMI report cards where BMI is measured among children in school still
the-sober-butterfly_3_07-07-2025_180645:Really
mallary-tenore-tarpley--she-her-_3_07-07-2025_170645:yes,
the-sober-butterfly_3_07-07-2025_180645:that feels like an antiquated practice.
mallary-tenore-tarpley--she-her-_3_07-07-2025_170645:in the
the-sober-butterfly_3_07-07-2025_180645:What
mallary-tenore-tarpley--she-her-_3_07-07-2025_170645:it. Yeah, it's, it's wild and I mean, there are so many potential
the-sober-butterfly_3_07-07-2025_180645:also BMI is like, I wouldn't say it's, it's, it's a. It's a stat, it's a data point, but it's also racist Inherently. Like my BMI is not going to like, there have been points in time where my BMI has fallen out of range and I'm not overweight. I'm not ob ob, obese, but it looked like it because of my bone density. I'm a tall girl on five 11 like you, all of the things. So anyway, that's crazy that there's report cards for BMI or included on your report card today.
mallary-tenore-tarpley--she-her-_3_07-07-2025_170645:Yeah, it's a, it's a very flawed measure and it is racist, like you said, and yeah, it's just mind boggling that that still happens today, even all these years later, but. For me, really trying to unpack the origins of the eating disorder was an important part of my recovery, and I needed to question what did my eating disorder give me, or what did I think it would give me and what did it ultimately take away? And then how can I find other ways of giving myself those things that I thought that disorder would give me? So how can I find ways to be closer to my mother that don't involve food restriction? How do I try to. Seek some control in other ways that don't involve obsessive exercising. And so really trying to untangle all of that and recovery was important. And in doing so, I was able to really think about the fact that the eating disorder. Was not a solution to the problem, but was in fact the problem itself. And I think once we can arrive at that understanding, that's incredibly important. And the more we can have these little aha moments, the more we can begin to see ourselves outside of the eating disorder. So for so long I believed that I was defined by my disorder and I wanted nothing more than to be the sickest anorexic. And it's heartbreaking to think back on that period of my life. But in recovery, I began to really see the other parts of my identity. I. that's something I still have to always remind myself of, because if I think of my identity as a pie, there's so many slices to that pie. And it felt like years ago the whole pie was taken up by anorexia, and now it's still a slice of the pie. I would be lying if I said it wasn't right, because it's still something I can contend with. But there's so many other slices. Right. I'm a professor, I'm a mother, I'm a writer, I'm all these other things, a friend, a daughter. And so being able to connect with those other parts of your identity, I think can be a really helpful part of the recovery process. But all those things I mentioned takes so much work and it's not easy to recover. And I think that we have to recognize that and also recognize that it's something that we just have to always work at. At least that's been the case for me.
the-sober-butterfly_3_07-07-2025_180645:Winding down here. I love everything you shared. How do you continue recovering after a slip as opposed to sliding, going spiral? I. I'm crashing out back to the beginning.
mallary-tenore-tarpley--she-her-_3_07-07-2025_170645:Yes. So important aspect of this is really trying to recognize the slip and tell someone about it. That can seem super scary because it's much easier to just stay silent about the slips. But I have found when I'm. Silent about them, then I end up slipping more. And so I think instead, if we can talk to someone we trust about the slip and say, okay, this thing happened. I don't feel great about it, but I don't wanna let it derail me. And so what can I do differently? Or Here's what I'm thinking of doing differently. And so I think we need to also recognize that slips are part of the recovery process. I think about this word slip as. Suggesting movement because you can't slip if you're standing still. And so I think we need to acknowledge that we often are trying to move forward and as part of that, naturally we're going to fall. And so recognizing that that's not a failure, that every falter doesn't have to be a failure is really important. And that has been huge in terms of just. Helping me to reframe my thinking around what it means to slip. And so I think if we can acknowledge that, that is going to help us to get back up faster and to recognize, okay, just to slip, but I don't need to slide. Let me keep moving forward. And so if you find though that you keep slipping, even if you're trying not to stigmatize those slips. That's often an indication that you might need to have more
the-sober-butterfly_3_07-07-2025_180645:Hmm.
mallary-tenore-tarpley--she-her-_3_07-07-2025_170645:And try to seek maybe professional help, which sounds again scary, but even being able to talk to a therapist or a dietician that can help so that those slips don't turn into a relapse or don't make you sort of fall into a really bad space where you're acutely sick again.
the-sober-butterfly_3_07-07-2025_180645:I really appreciate that, and it seems, once again, this is applicable for anything that we're working at. It's the ING, right? It's the Jaron, it's the present progressive. It's something ongoing recovered. Is boring. Boring. It's done. It's like checked
mallary-tenore-tarpley--she-her-_3_07-07-2025_170645:Yes.
the-sober-butterfly_3_07-07-2025_180645:like, it's like that is like, there's nothing else to be done and there's always something. I think an act of being alive is taking action and continually striving and so I really appreciate that and I find that is so relevant and I resonate with that when it comes to my. Recovery as it pertains to alcohol. But in having this conversation, I'll be honest, Mallory, I'm recognizing that I can do more work. I do have a therapist. I'm currently in therapy. I probably will always be in therapy, but it's something that I avoid talking about,
mallary-tenore-tarpley--she-her-_3_07-07-2025_170645:about.
the-sober-butterfly_3_07-07-2025_180645:anytime I'm avoiding something, it's because it's, it's uncomfortable and that that is a sign that there's something there that I shoot.
mallary-tenore-tarpley--she-her-_3_07-07-2025_170645:there that I should
the-sober-butterfly_3_07-07-2025_180645:Work on or continue to work toward. And I think for me, even when you shared, like, I don't know why you reference this right now, but I know you mentioned you know your mom and you have two and it's just say that's why you referenced it. You said being pregnant. And immediately the back of my mind, it's like a afterthought or an underlying unconscious thought where it's like. I would love to have children one day, Mallory, but I'm afraid of being pregnant because I'm afraid of gaining weight. Like stuff like that. Like that is just like the natural chain of logic. And so I just wanted to say like, clearly I'm someone who will always, I don't wanna say Will always, but I'm still plagued with these thoughts. I check myself, I, I, I'm not
mallary-tenore-tarpley--she-her-_3_07-07-2025_170645:I, I,
the-sober-butterfly_3_07-07-2025_180645:on them all the time, but like, it's something that I think about often. So.
mallary-tenore-tarpley--she-her-_3_07-07-2025_170645:yes. Yeah. And I think pregnancy is a really vulnerable time because anytime we go through a transition where our bodies are changing, it can conjure up really difficult thoughts and can lead us. To engage in behaviors that maybe we had abandoned, but we've suddenly returned to. And so I have a whole chapter on pregnancy
the-sober-butterfly_3_07-07-2025_180645:Oh.
mallary-tenore-tarpley--she-her-_3_07-07-2025_170645:terms of what it was like for me, but also other people. And yeah, for me, just briefly, pregnancy itself was really beautiful and I really took care of my body and fueled it in ways that I never had before. But but postpartum was actually unexpectedly difficult and I found myself trapped in this cycle of. Pumping pretty compulsively as a way to burn calories. And it was lauded as me just being this really amazing supplier of milk for my children when in fact, I at one point donated 10 gallons of breast milk to a local milk bank and wrote about that experience. And people thought, wow, that's amazing. But I at the time never really spoke truth to what was underlying all of that. And that was. This sort of obsessive compulsive disorder that I had struggled with as an adolescent that flared back up again postpartum. And I mentioned that not to include a triggering detail, but really because I think that there's barely any conversations happening
the-sober-butterfly_3_07-07-2025_180645:Yeah.
mallary-tenore-tarpley--she-her-_3_07-07-2025_170645:And I wish I had known that that was a risk factor because I think I would've tried to mitigate it somehow. But I talk a lot about that because I think there's so many potential. Kind of pitfalls and different challenges that we experience in recovery, many of which we may not necessarily be expecting or prepared for.
the-sober-butterfly_3_07-07-2025_180645:Yeah. I appreciate you sharing that detail, and I think it's very common to delude yourself like, I'm doing this in. You know, conjunction with a positive outcome. Like, I'm helping the community or I'm doing the, but it's, it's like even as you're telling yourself the, the lie, you know, you start to recognize, Hmm, is that really why? And you have to dig deeper. That's the part where you dig deeper. You dig deeper. And like in having a conversation, like you saying that if someone heard that at home might have been like, oh, oh, snap, like. That is something I did as well and I never would've necessarily connected the two dots. But that is the part of being, you know, very vocal about recovery and like it is an ongoing thing and like it's very easy sometimes we fool ourself the best until we're ready to confront the situation at hand because you know, to be honest with other people, you have to be honest with yourself first, and that part can be. I think sometimes harder than if someone comes to you and they're like, Hey, I'm noticing you've lost X amount of pounds. Is everything okay? Well then maybe I feel ready to have a conversation. It's a very different, perspective when I'm the one that's like, everyone thinks everything's okay, I am in recovery. Everyone knows I'm recovered, everyone knows or recovering I, you know, it's a specialty of mine. It's something I talk about openly, even with this podcast and me talking about sobriety. And it's like, there are moments where I'm like, Hmm, I'm not so sure how I'm doing, and am I allowed to talk about that? And it's like, yes, you have to give your permission to be transparent. Because it helps other people, because you're not alone. Because those are all the things that kept us sick and stuck and isolated. So thank you for sharing that. I think someone at home might really resonate and that can, that can make all the difference. So love the work that you're doing. Tell us a little bit more, Mallory, where can we find flip? Slip not slipped because it is an ongoing process. Guys where can we find slip? I would cannot wait to read it and get my hands on the copy. So tell us everything, how we can connect with you, your work and your book.
mallary-tenore-tarpley--she-her-_3_07-07-2025_170645:In your book. Oh, well thank you for that and I really hope that
the-sober-butterfly_3_07-07-2025_180645:I.
mallary-tenore-tarpley--she-her-_3_07-07-2025_170645:and listeners will check out the book and just yeah, that you'll find it to just be a really helpful resource. And SLIP is available for pre-order wherever you buy books, so you can find it on Amazon Barnes and Noble's website, your local independent bookstores website. Target has it. So, if you're planning to buy it might as well pre-order it, and then when it comes out on August 5th, you'll get it in the mail. Pre-orders really help authors because they create initial buzz around a book and they can help to expand its reach. And so I want this book to reach as many people as possible so that it will help as many people as possible. So, so yeah, I hope. That folks will check it out. And I do have a section in there too around this sort of intersection between substance
the-sober-butterfly_3_07-07-2025_180645:Hmm.
mallary-tenore-tarpley--she-her-_3_07-07-2025_170645:eating disorders because I do think it's a really important topic and I write about a lot of these issues on my substack newsletter. It's just my first name, M-A-L-L-A-R yck.com. And then I'm also pretty active on Instagram, which is just my full name, Mallory Rie Tarpley. And maybe we can include links because
the-sober-butterfly_3_07-07-2025_180645:Absolutely, I, everything is linked below guys in the show notes, so make sure you check that out. I'm gonna pre-order my book as soon as we get off this call because I want to learn more about this. And it was funny, I told you backstage, I binge watch, binge, that's not the best word. I watched. But all, all of the second season of America's sweetheart. Sweethearts, the Dallas Cowboys Show on Netflix and season one. Did you catch season one?
mallary-tenore-tarpley--she-her-_3_07-07-2025_170645:I did,
the-sober-butterfly_3_07-07-2025_180645:Okay, so the mother-daughter duo that was like, you know, they had a very, like, interesting, maybe like too close mother-daughter relationship. Everyone had their thoughts around it. I, I liked them as a, as a couple. Anyway, they make a little appearance in this one and like she struggled openly with her eating disorder and took some time away from the cowboys. And then there's a similar, I won't ruin it for people who may have watched this season, but there's a similar parallel there or relationship with mother, daughter and also a dancer who openly struggled with their ed. And it's just so fascinating because all of the Cowboys, I'm sure you've seen them, you're in Austin or well, it's Dallas, but you know what I mean, Texas, sorry, I'm making the connection. But like if you've seen them like the the way in which they present themselves. It's like you have to be perfect. Like on paper behind the scenes you have to be the perfect dancer. You have to work three jobs. You have to basically be with Miss America on steroids and be able to dance with the pompoms and look a certain way in your uniform. Literally measure them. And I'm like, how do all of these girls not have eating disorders? It's just so much pressure. But I say that to say check out season two.'cause I actually think thought they did a better job this season of being a lot more transparent with. What it's like to be a cowboy and how scary it can be sometimes to live up to that pressure of being quote. Perfect. So just wanted to put that out there in case you haven't seen it yet. I recommend it'cause it might be a good place for you to draw some inspiration for your next book.
mallary-tenore-tarpley--she-her-_3_07-07-2025_170645:Yes. I'm glad you mentioned it because yeah, it's on my watch list and so I wanna check it out next. And I'm always curious to see just how different shows and podcasts and other things address eating disorders. So I'll be curious to check
the-sober-butterfly_3_07-07-2025_180645:Check it out. Let me know what you think. Thank you so much, Mallory, for coming on the Sober Butterfly.
mallary-tenore-tarpley--she-her-_3_07-07-2025_170645:Yes. Thanks so much for having me.
the-sober-butterfly_5_07-11-2025_064944:Mallory reminded me that recovery isn't perfection. It's about compassion, patience, showing up for yourself even when it's hard, especially when it's hard. And whether you are navigating recovery from an eating disorder or substance use like alcohol Please know that you are not alone. My hope is that from this conversation, you recognize that healing is possible in your own time and in your own way. You can find Mallory's book Slip Life in the Middle of Eating Disorder, recovery wherever books are sold. But I will drop a link in the show notes so you can pre-order her book slip from Amazon. Now, in the very beginning of the episode, I talked about. Ghosting and why I ghosted you guys last week, and I once again wanna say sorry. It was not intentional. I am just experiencing life. I've been pretty open on the show around my mental health struggles this year. I was gonna say this quarter, this, no, it's been all year. Pretty much. I've struggled with bouts of depression, depressive episodes. Sometimes feeling it worse than other days, and last week was a pretty low point for me. I had a complete breakdown. But in good hands, in good company, I. Had a really important conversation that I was avoiding with my mom on the phone, and she supported me through that entire call. I. Broke down, but it was so good. It was so needed. It was very cathartic. I'm not getting into the specifics right now around what me and my mom talked about, but just know it was something that has been weighing so, so much on me, and I will explain one day I am not. Trying to be elusive because I don't want you to know I'm a pretty open book. You should know that by now from following the show. It's just something that I'm working through and I, I feel like the better time to address it is when I've, when I have more of an understanding around like how to figure that part of my life out. But it was something that I subconsciously. Have been caring for a long time, and so finally saying it out loud to someone else the person I trust most in this world, my mom was very helpful for me and in me expressing that the tears I. Came and they continued coming and they wouldn't stop for a long time, but it was needed. It felt like a release and I feel better and I actually will go so far as to say that me having that breakdown with my mom felt like the first time for a long time That. I don't know, like there was hope, like I was turning a corner because I think as someone who is highly energetic and positive for the most part, and happy go lucky, bubbly personality, these are things that people have said to me like, I think this is, I. An accurate description of my personality. Like I am a very half glass full girly, and so it was very hard for me to admit that I was struggling with depression. And I think a big sign for me has been like this sense of hopelessness, kind of like once the point, like I'm still doing everything because I can't help it. That's just how I'm hardwired. But at the same time, I'm not experiencing much joy and I'm not seeing the, the greater picture I, I'm not necessarily believing. In myself and the ways that I have in the past. So I share all that to say, I had that moment with my mom midweek last week, and then I also. Knew my soberversary was coming up. And similar to sentiments I've shared around my birthday this year, turning 34 in March this year I had birthday blues and I felt similar around my soberversary. I turned four in sober years, July 5th. So last Saturday, initially I wanted the Friday episode, so the 4th of July episode, to be devoted to celebrating sub adversaries. That's been on my content agenda for a long time because I was like, okay, I need to film this solo episode around celebrating sober adversaries and how to do it and all the things, but it didn't feel authentic to me. It wasn't matching how I was feeling. And instead of forcing it, I delayed, delayed. Next thing I knew, Friday had come and gone and I was like. Well, I don't even know what I'm doing for my sober bursary this year. So last year for example, on my sober bursary, I had an episode around explaining why getting sober was the best life decision I've ever made. I still agree with that. And then I shared more about my. Sober story, what led me to sobriety, what life looked like for me before sobriety. And so I thought maybe doing an updated version of that would be helpful, but I'm also like, I don't have that much new to share around my story. I feel like I've, I. I told my stories a million different ways. There are so many episodes within the catalog of this show that one can refer to, in fact, refer to that sober bursary episode from last year, so July 5th, 2024. You can listen to my story there, and there's just many renditions of it that have been done many times over and I realized that I just didn't feel like talking about my same story again when I was feeling feeling. My feelings actually. That's it. I'm feeling my feelings alive in the moment. Sober. It was very raw. I had had that midweek crash out and yeah, I was just like, I'm, what am I talking about? Like I'm, I don't wanna repeat myself. I don't wanna put an episode out just about sober bursaries when I don't even feel like celebrating mine. And so I just didn't. Film anything. Long story short, I just didn't feel like it and I just didn't film anything for you. I actually had a good soap bursary though, so Saturday woke up, that was my actual soap bursary. So that once again, July 5th, woke up with zero plans. I was kind of like, what are we doing, girl? We don't know. But it's great because I've just been overexerting myself. To the umpteenth degree to where I was craving rest. I needed my body, my mind needed rest. So I slept in that Saturday and I mean, sleeping in for me is like 8:00 AM but I did, I slept in, I can't even remember now, all the specifics. What did I do last Saturday? I deep clean my apartment. That always makes me feel better like decluttering. I put on the cute little dress, ran some errands, got my beauty stuff done, like I got my lashes done, went shopping. That always huffs a little bit and I, it was like an uneventful day, but it was a cute day that I needed, and I actually had an amazing sober bursary doing. Nothing, nothing special, but like everything I needed for myself in that moment. So I share all that to say. So per bursaries, well important commemorate how you see fit. For me, it's always a marker that something is amiss when it feels performative, and that can be applied to anything in my life. Anytime I feel like I have to demonstrate or showcase or like prove myself to other people, I'm like, girl, what's going on? Because that's my perfectionism. Flaring up. That's me feeling like I have to present and if I feel like I have to present, it's most likely in inauthentic to actually my inner feelings and how I'm living my life. So you may have also noticed that I haven't been as active on social. You guys, I was serious when I said this is a silent, sober summer. I am taking intentional breaks and this week has been partly like me crashing out, me being insanely busy. I haven't even touched the surface of like all the things I've been working on. That and. Just life and my super bursary and just all the things that, the pressure of feeling like I have to perform. I, I just have been taking breaks and it feels good and I encourage you to do the same. And even from this conversation today with Mallory seeing how so much of our conscious and unconscious and schemas are shaped by what we see on social is a great reminder that it's okay to mute, unfollow, it's okay to take breaks. It's okay to do whatever you need to do in order to preserve whatever semblance of mental health you have remaining in 2025. So I'm gonna end on that note. I will continue to update you around my mental health. Another quick life update that I think is amazing. I'm still not smoking, so yay me. And maybe that's a part of it too. I'm just like, there's so many things happening, but I'm proud of myself nonetheless, for. Just doing what I need to do to continue being human. So I love you guys. I promise, I actually, I'm not gonna promise that I was gonna say I'm, I'm promising not to ghost you again. I don't know, maybe I will, but I will try to be more communicative and update you accordingly throughout this journey. It is summer, so I do intend to be more outside. Or just outdoors. Like outside is like outside. And then there's like outside, like outdoors. I just plan on being like in the wild. So I'm just busy is the point I'm making. So I will do my best to always be there for you. And that will look like me uploading episodes every week. Fridays, you can tune in. Time-wise, I don't know. These episodes have been coming out later and later, so just know it will be Friday, it may be 6:00 AM it may be 6:00 PM but you'll get your episodes. Love you guys. See you next Friday. Bye.