Unraveling Attachment Styles: A Conversation with Bryan Power

In this powerful episode of The Sober Butterfly Podcast, Nadine sits down with Bryan Power to explore how attachment styles, childhood wounds, emotional triggers, and deep inner work can transform relationships from the inside out.

Bryan shares his remarkable journey—from a sudden breakup and restraining order to rebuilding a healthier, stronger marriage through self-awareness and integrated attachment theory. Together, they unpack the six pillars of emotional healing inspired by Thais Gibson’s work: core wounds, needs, emotions, boundaries, communication, and behaviors.

This episode offers actionable tools for anyone navigating relationship challenges, breaking toxic patterns, or healing from trauma. Whether you’re partnered, single, or somewhere in between, Bryan’s story is a reminder that change is possible—and love can be rebuilt when we learn to understand ourselves.

Resources Mentioned:
📌 Book a Free 60-Minute Relationship Strategy Call with Bryan:
https://www.myrelationshipfail.com/

📌 Mel Robbins x Thais Gibson Episode:
“Why Do I Love the Way That I Love: The 4 Attachment Styles Explained”

📌 Follow Bryan on Social Media:
Instagram: @myrelationshipfail

📌 Follow Nadine / The Sober Butterfly:
Instagram: @the.soberbutterfly
TikTok: @thesoberbutterfly
YouTube: The Sober Butterfly

Transcript

the-sober-butterfly_8_11-26-2025_044508: 0:00

Hey butterflies.

the-sober-butterfly_5_11-26-2025_043517: 0:00

Welcome back to another episode of The Sober Butterfly. I'm your host, Nadine, and

the-sober-butterfly_8_11-26-2025_044508: 0:07

Before we get into today's episode, a quick warning. This episode may make you want to go to therapy. My guest today takes us into the real work core wounds, needs, communication, and how to rebuild love from the inside out.

the-sober-butterfly_5_11-26-2025_043517: 0:24

Bryan Power. Reached out to me with a story he said that he wished someone had shared with him on his hardest days. Earlier this year, bryan and his wife went through something. Most couples I fear, don't come back from a sudden breakup. A restraining order. Yeah, you heard me right. And a deep, painful unraveling of their relationship. But instead of giving up, Bryan used that breaking point as a doorway. Into healing. What he learned. From attachment styles, childhood wounds, emotional patterns, and basically how to rebuild connection turned out to be the very thing that ultimately saved his marriage and changed his life. I think this episode is helpful whether you are single, partnered, healing, somewhere in between. This is a great reminder that it's never too late to understand yourself, to communicate and show up differently and to build healthier relationships from the inside out. So grab your favorite nonna, bevy. Take a breath, maybe even grab a notebook. You're gonna take some notes. Settle in and let's get into this powerful, deeply human conversation with Bryan.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-18-2025_181342: 1:50

Bryan. Welcome to the Sober Butterfly. How are you today?

bryan-power_2_11-18-2025_181342: 1:54

Hey Nadine, thanks so much for having me on the show today. I'm excited to be on the Sober Butterfly and yeah, I personally was a, a Caterpillar one time and I've definitely bloomed a little bit and hopefully I'm a little bit more of a butterfly today. But some of the information I hopefully can share with your audience today will help them also become butterflies and will be able to hopefully have some better relationships. So I'm excited to be here and thank you so much for giving the opportunity to share my story.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-18-2025_181342: 2:15

I love that. Thank you for sharing. And it's a metamorphosis here over at the the Sober Butterfly. So thank you for acknowledging that transformation process. And we're gonna get into a little bit more about understanding how we can, you know, metamorphosize into that butterfly. So, Bryan, you know, I just wanna start right where your email began and. I wanna start there because honestly it really hit me and you said that, or you mentioned in this email earlier this year that you went from a breakup and quite literally a restraining order with your wife to a stronger marriage. And I'm like, that's a huge arc. So can you walk us through that moment or those moments, like what actually happened and what was going on internally for you at that time?

bryan-power_2_11-18-2025_181342: 3:00

Yeah, I mean, it was a, it was a crazy year, 20, 24, early on in the year. My wife and I was, we had one another fight about parenting. A lot of our problems came in when my, our, my son was born in 2019. I have a stepdaughter from her first marriage. Who at the time was thir 13 in 2024? My son at that point was four and a half. And so we had a pretty good marriage, pretty good relationship. Lot of love. But you know, we had our typical fights and, and we didn't know how to really work through our fights. We really didn't know how to communicate them properly and get them solved and everything else. So. It's kinda like death by a thousand paper cuts. You know, over time these things were just kind of more festering. And ultimately in 2024, we had another fight about my son and some parenting style differences. And she would, at that point, challenge me to see a therapist and, and I said, okay, fair enough. You know what? I'm willing to see what I can do and see if I can learn something, but. I challenge you to see a therapist as well, because this isn't gonna work that way. We both need to do some work, and I truly believed in my mind that she was the one with all the problems. And of course, in her mind, I was the one with all the problems. And so what I learned first and foremost is a lot of times both of us have problems. We're we both have issues that we're, we're bringing into this relationship and handling things in a way. That aren't healthy and not really moving the needle to have a really great connection and, and a really great relationship. And so I think the first step towards any healing is really acknowledging that there is a problem and that we need to solve it and move forward. And so, so we were both seeing some therapists at that point and literally for about the next four months, she was doing a lot of deep. Childhood trauma work with a specialist that she was working with. And while that was really helpful to her, at the same time, it was kind of adding a little fuel to the fire.'cause a lot of her childhood emotions and trauma was, was coming up in therapy and it was also just playing out in our lives and relationships. And that's where I learned a lot about this, is that a lot of the subconscious is really running the show here. And all of our childhood wounds were actually playing out and clashing, if you will. And that's really where this kind of really devolved into. A fairly decent relationship with some issues down to, like, things got really crazy and for about four months of complete emotional turmoil it became a disaster and to the point where she would ultimately seek a restraining order for emotional safety. I never really threatened my, never, excuse me, not never really, I never threatened my wife with physical harm. I'm not that kind of guy. I don't believe in that. But for emotional stability. I couldn't do it anymore. And so, she finally reached for a restraining order, put that against me. And at that point I really felt like the relationship was over. I didn't understand what was going on. It was so crazy and tumultuous and I was just left kind of wondering what's going on here? But at that point it didn't matter. I was trying to put my life back together and I was fortunate enough to spend some time with a friend of mine who lived in the area. He was also going through a divorce. And him and I were able to kinda help each other. You know, be there for each other a little bit emotionally and kind of strengthen each other and for the next four and a half months while we were separated. I was doing work that I had come across about attachment theory and something called integrated Attachment Theory, which was created by Thais Gibson out of Canada, T-H-A-I-S Gibson G-I-B-S-O-N. And I had come across her work about, about a month before actually the restraining order happened, and I was fascinated learning about attachment theory and attachment styles. I think there was a lot of information there to be had. And then the work that Thais Gibson does. Really begins to move the needle and keeps us from getting us from the unhealthy attachment styles closer to the attachment styles closer to the secure attachment style, excuse me. And and that was the work I just decided to delve into and ultimately would, would help put my life back together, my relationship back together. And now I help others do the same with that information that I've learned. So.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-18-2025_181342: 6:28

That is beautiful to hear. I love a story that is rooted, obviously in love. But then when that love is quote, like lost, but you are able to reclaim it, it's almost, I don't know why this comes up, but I'm thinking like, if you love something, let it go. And if it comes back to you, then you truly know

bryan-power_2_11-18-2025_181342: 6:45

Yeah.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-18-2025_181342: 6:45

it's kind of giving that energy to me.

bryan-power_2_11-18-2025_181342: 6:48

Yeah,

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-18-2025_181342: 6:48

so many questions I wanna obviously into. Everything you shared

bryan-power_2_11-18-2025_181342: 6:53

absolutely.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-18-2025_181342: 6:54

one of the first questions. It is, forgive me, it's, it's such a low bar question, but like, I have to ask, how are you served? How did you get your papers, your restraining Because I'm like, that must, I'm just imagining like, knock, knock at the door. I'm thinking it's, I

bryan-power_2_11-18-2025_181342: 7:07

Well, to be honest with you, I had taken my son to the, to the red Sox game that day. And when I got home, she was sitting on the porch and she said, we need to talk. And I was like, what's going on? And she goes. You need to get outta the house, I'm gonna put a restraining order against you. And something had happened that she thought I did, but ultimately later on she would realize that it wasn't the actual story that actually happened. But at this point, she, she was mad about something that she thought I had done. And I'm like, okay. And I just was like, whoa, what is going on here? So I just grabbed my stuff and, and got outta the house. And then she did ultimately put that restraining order on me. So I got a phone call saying that, you know that, yeah. It was a phone call that said that, you know, you, your wife has put up. Restraining order against you, blah, blah, blah. And I was like, okay. And then I forget how I got, yeah. So, and then Ulti, I had no place to live, so it wasn't like they could serve me at a place where I was living or anything like that. But ultimately I just, you know, like a week later we had to go down and, and they, that's the opportunity to extend the restraining order.'cause first they issue a temporary. Then you have to get it extended at that point. I was done with the relationship. I thought it was over. I just was like, okay. I had a lawyer that was, you know, we went in there, just tried to talk to her and see if we'd just get some, you know, visitation, start talking about how we're gonna parent our kid. But she decided to go forward with the restraining order. So we just said, all right, well, it is what it is. We let her have the restraining order. We didn't even fight it, and we just figured we'd kinda move on and, and pick this up later and kind of deal with it later on. Worry about you know, the battle that we need to go from there. And so that's kind of just the way it came about. But it was really awful experience. Top, top to bottom. This whole thing was, you know, I talk about it now and it's pretty calm and it's pretty chill and like, okay, all this stuff happened. But no, it was, it was a crazy time. And restraining order is very serious. It's not something you really want to deal with. I truly just,

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-18-2025_181342: 8:43

experience with that

bryan-power_2_11-18-2025_181342: 8:44

yeah.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-18-2025_181342: 8:44

college. I

bryan-power_2_11-18-2025_181342: 8:45

Yeah.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-18-2025_181342: 8:46

into it here, but yeah, I understand the severity of a, a

bryan-power_2_11-18-2025_181342: 8:49

Yeah.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-18-2025_181342: 8:49

so I hope you don't take offense to me making light of

bryan-power_2_11-18-2025_181342: 8:53

No.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-18-2025_181342: 8:54

literally like, how are you served? Like,

bryan-power_2_11-18-2025_181342: 8:55

No, absolutely.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-18-2025_181342: 8:57

I have, I'm thinking of my lived experience with that. From

bryan-power_2_11-18-2025_181342: 9:01

Yeah.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-18-2025_181342: 9:01

the day. But I also wanna touch on the fact that you mentioned this time both you and your wife are in therapy, so you're, you know, independently doing some work

bryan-power_2_11-18-2025_181342: 9:12

Yeah.

the-sober-butterfly_2_11-18-2025_181342: 9:12

With professionals. And I raised that point because then you also mentioned that she was doing a lot of childhood work, like unraveling some of those wounds and like tending to those. And it's just interesting because I'm also hearing from your story that. point of conflict seemed to be parenting. And from what I understand about theory, and by the way, my scope of understanding is simply from the book attached that so many people have read, and I highly recommend that book. But you know, I learned a lot about my personal attachment style, which we can get into, and I'd love to learn more about your personal attachment style and your wife's, but a big part of Me referencing the attachment theory is that so much of it derives from childhood wounds, right? Like, so if you are more of the avoidant type that could be because in childhood you felt a sense of neglect and that festers into maybe a sense of over compensating with independence or feeling like you don't wanna rely on other people because you don't wanna be let down. So there's so many, like nuance there and gray area, but I, I bring it up to say like, do you. Realize now in retrospect that maybe the work that your wife was doing in therapy, excavating parts of her past was coming forth into your relationship and impacting it in that way.

bryan-power_2_11-18-2025_181342: 10:27

Yeah, I think the wounds were already playing out and, and that's why we were having some issues subconsciously. But then when she started doing the, the, the work. I think it was really touching her even more emotionally and so that those wounds were really just now, they were open and festering, if you will. And so it really just added a little fuel to the fire of our, already at that point, emotional, you know, situation. It really just kind of added a little fuel to the fire at that time. Ultimate. Yeah, ultimately it provi provided a lot of healing. And so that work ultimately with, for my Wife, was very, the therapeutic and the, and the work that she did with her therapist was phenomenal. But early on it, again, it just seemed to make things, you know, really crazier and, and a little for that time. But again I think the best thing that ever happened to us, honestly was the restraining order and that time away. Where we could actually work on ourselves, focus on our, our own thoughts, our own visions, our own issues, if you will, and not blaming the other person. We had to both look at ourselves at that time,

the-sober-butterfly_2_01-08-2025_164227: 11:24

And now a quick word from our partners.

the-sober-butterfly_25_12-24-2024_142305: 11:29

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Bryan Power: 12:46

Yeah, I actually think one of the best things that happened to us was the restraining order. It, it's kind of funny to say that, but that restraining order actually would put a divide between us where we had to both focus on ourselves, our own healing, our own journey, and really take a look at what was our issues and did a lot of self-reflection for both sides and, and that time away because we did the work and we both working on ourselves. You know, pretty good. That work would ultimately pay off and allow us to come back together. And, and we saw a lot of our own flaws. We stop blaming the other person so much and again, I learned a lot of tools as well that we were able to begin to practice and still practice today on how to actually have a better relationship because my wife and I didn't know how to really do that. We were just kind of going along with it as best we could. Right. But because we really didn't come from, you know, really good upbringings where we saw good, healthy relationships. We were just kind of winging it and of course it wasn't working.

the-sober-butterfly_3_11-18-2025_182425: 13:35

Yeah,

Bryan Power: 13:35

just wasn't working.

the-sober-butterfly_3_11-18-2025_182425: 13:36

or like mimicking. You know, past experiences or like what you saw growing up. I'd love to learn from you and also if you don't mind explaining to folks at home. A little bit more about attachment theory. Like what is attachment in terms of like these wounds that we may be holding onto or like these archetypes that define us. Can you explain that and then if you don't mind also sharing

Bryan Power: 14:00

Yeah.

the-sober-butterfly_3_11-18-2025_182425: 14:00

your attachment style

Bryan Power: 14:01

My attachment style, just so you know, is I'm more fearful of, oh, let's talk about attachment

the-sober-butterfly_3_11-18-2025_182425: 14:05

Yes.

Bryan Power: 14:06

attachment theory first is it, it was kind of created in the fifties, but really became popular in the seventies and now it's still popular today in the therapy world. And it really has to do with how do we attach to each other in relationships?

the-sober-butterfly_3_11-18-2025_182425: 14:17

Hmm.

Bryan Power: 14:17

And, and it has a lot to do with. You know, our wounds and, and our communications and, and different styles and patterns that we kind of have. And it, we basically fall into one of four categories. Number one, you have a secure attachment style. That person is somebody who knows how to communicate fairly well. They have their emotions pretty balanced. They, they look at relationships as important, but of course, you know, if they break up with you or things don't work out you know, they're okay with that. They kind of hurt a little bit, but they move on. It's not like, oh my God, the end of the world. They're just balanced. They know how to set boundaries. It's the one that we all want to be, and, and that's the way we kind of want to get to where we know how to do these things. Unfortunately, for most of us, especially if we came from some broken homes and stuff, really hard for us to do that without learning that and, and figuring it out. So we fall into one of the other three categories, which isn't anxious, preoccupied. You have somebody who really craves attention in relationships, really loves closeness. Very, you know, tight with their emotions. A lot of communication. They like to communicate all the time, sometimes to the point where it's too much, right? Maybe you're communicating 10 times a day and it's like, Hey, I'm working. You know, like, gimme a break. It can just be overboard. A lot of people pleasing in there. put the relationship so high and so valuable because they don't wanna be alone. They have a fear of being alone, fear of being abandoned. Not good enough. So they're always trying to earn your love and they can be very good people and everything else, but sometimes to the point where it's, again, unhealthy. and a lot of times, yeah, they just abandon themselves for the sake of the relationship. And ultimately that's a, that's an issue. So number one, anxious rein. On the flip side of that is what's called a dismissive avoidant. Dismissive avoidance typically are very hyper independent. They they really have a hard time. Getting in touch with their emotions. If emotions are bad, you know, if we're emotional, that's a bad thing. So they really don't like to go there at all. If they do, again, they like to isolate, kind of deal with that on their own. They have a communication style of mostly communicating through their actions. So a lot of times you know, they just think they did something. You're supposed to understand that without fully them communicating it in regard, you know, in their mind it's, it's more through their actions. You should know that. Which is very difficult. And yeah, it's just so you can see if somebody is dismissive, avoidant and somebody else is more anxious and they're in a relationship together and somebody's trying to get a lot of connection attention and somebody else is trying to pull away and get more space, that's a problem. And that's kind of where my wife and I fell into

the-sober-butterfly_3_11-18-2025_182425: 16:27

I feel like that's a common part pairing, I may have even read something in the book. It's been a while, but like that said, that anxious and avoidance tend to find each other in relationships and sort of like this push and pull pendulum between, ghosting and love bombing and like this back and forth because the anxious person is so eager to please and need that validation. And the avoidant person may at first like appreciate the attention, but then pushes them away and it forces the anxious person to react by coming closer. And so it's this constant back and forth. So anyway. So you and your wife's dynamic, it sounds like, fell into this

Bryan Power: 17:03

Yeah,

the-sober-butterfly_3_11-18-2025_182425: 17:04

category.

Bryan Power: 17:04

the end of it, that's really what was happening. My wife was leaning a lot more dismissive at the time. I was actually the one leaning more anxious, preoccupied, and as she began to pull away and trying to figure her life out and trying to understand things, you know, she was looking for a lot of space and telling me she didn't know anything. She couldn't figure herself out. I was like, what is going on? So. anxiety started to get triggered and my fear of abandonment for my, for my own childhood began to get triggered. And so my anxiety came up and I was trying to hold onto the relationship. I was trying to keep the family together. And the more I tried to do that, the more she wanted to pull away. And

the-sober-butterfly_3_11-18-2025_182425: 17:33

Right.

Bryan Power: 17:34

pull dynamic comes in. And again, that was really the emotional turmoil that we were experiencing. So, not knowing that really is a big problem. Had I known that. Sooner we would've been able to kind of maybe navigate those waters a lot better. And so that is something that I'm very thankful today that I've learned. So I, I kind of can see that. And just so you know, the last, last anxious, the last you know, avoidant style that we have, unhealthy attachment style is called fearful avoidant. Some people call it disorganized but we call it fearful avoidant. And that person really swings both ways. They have a lot of core wounds. On both sides. And they swing towards the anxious sometimes where they're very connected, feeling pretty good. But then maybe the next week they're, they're, they're, know, breaking up with you for no reason. They have a real problem with trust and stuff, and they're just like, okay. You know, also very in independent at times. They just go back and forth and that, that could really be a challenge too, because. Who can be in a relationship where it gets really kind of all over, and that's what they're used to. A lot of times it's that chaos that they kind of grew up with and sometimes they have to create it just to kind of feel safe and normal. That's what they're used to. So unfortunately those three though are, are difficult to be in relationships with long term, you know?

the-sober-butterfly_3_11-18-2025_182425: 18:35

Let's take a gander. Which of the four do you think I fall into? We just met, we, we just met for the first time, Ryan, but I'm asking.

Bryan Power: 18:44

I dunno, I'm gonna lean towards anxious because you seem like a friendly, outgoing person. A lot of times the anxious preoccupied tend to be outgoing, so I'm gonna say anxious, but I don't know.

the-sober-butterfly_3_11-18-2025_182425: 18:52

I, I think default. At first I thought I was anxious because I've shown up that way and a lot of my like childhood wounds come from that fear of like abandonment and or needing to feel validated in my worth and external validation was the way that I sought that. But I've also been in relationships and I think this is true to where someone can activate a different type of attachment style based off of how they behave. To where I've been more dismissive, avoidant because I feel like the other person is anxious and it that makes me. Want to kind of, I don't know, back up and get, get some air come up for air. So now though, in hearing you explain all four archetypes, I wasn't so privy to the last one, which is the disorganized, where you can kind of swing both ways or all over the place. I think that's actually more reflective of me. The chaos. Yeah. I create it in my life, even in sobriety.

Bryan Power: 19:49

I am that way as well. I think I, I, it's funny'cause a lot of us that I talk to believe that almost all of us are kind of like that fearful avoidant and we just kinda lean one way or another A lot of times. There are some people that are more, definitely more hardcore, dismissive, avoidance and definitely some more that are lean, absolutely more anxious. But I think a lot of people I talk to seem to fall into that that, that, that, that middle ground where we're desk all over the place. So yeah, it doesn't surprise me, you know, we're, we're in that fearful avoidance style and I'm the same. So I totally get it.

the-sober-butterfly_3_11-18-2025_182425: 20:15

So, okay. You and your wife are at this place where there's no reconciliation in sight, but then obviously through doing the work and taking the time apart, you realize that. At some point, both of you realize that like, we do wanna work on this and we do wanna make our marriage work and keep our family together. So my question for you, Bryan, is what tools or exercises change everything for you?

Bryan Power: 20:39

Yeah, I mean, so the first thing that I had to do and, and I think the first thing that really brought everything back was actually letting it go, and you had talked about that a little bit early on, is that, you know, I wasn't. Fighting to get the relationship back. I was doing the work so I could let it all go and, and get more confident and comfortable with myself again, finding myself and, and letting it go and accepting that maybe we're just not meant to be together for rest of our lives. And that's just the way it is sometimes. And, you know, I, I just wanted a good, healthy relationship with somebody. I thought it was gonna be her. And so, you know, that idea has to, you have to finally get to that point where you say, okay, maybe it's not, and, and if that's the case, then so what you know, I wish her, well, I I, I didn't have any animosity. I was actually, I used to tell her if I'd rather her be with somebody else and be happy than to be with me and be miserable. And so I, I had to prove that now I had to actually, could I really

the-sober-butterfly_3_11-18-2025_182425: 21:23

That's,

Bryan Power: 21:23

Right? Could I, I really mean that though now?

the-sober-butterfly_3_11-18-2025_182425: 21:26

yeah.

Bryan Power: 21:27

like, finally I got to that point where I could say, yes, you know what, if that's the case and she's happy with somebody else, then I wish her well and that's great. I just wanna

the-sober-butterfly_3_11-18-2025_182425: 21:33

Can I say that? I have to say it now.'cause you said I wish her well twice. Do you know who Cardi B is? Bryan?

Bryan Power: 21:39

Yes.

the-sober-butterfly_3_11-18-2025_182425: 21:39

Well, the, the rappers, she, there's a very funny scene where she's like, I wish you well, she's like, I wish you well. And hell, and it's just like that, like, dot dot, dot. It's like, I wish you well, I wish you well. Dot dot. I'm sorry I had to start at first. I wasn't gonna say it, but then you said it twice of like, okay. Do you wish her, well, I'm sure you did wish her well, but like, also like.

Bryan Power: 21:59

and that,

the-sober-butterfly_3_11-18-2025_182425: 21:59

I want, I want us to work.

Bryan Power: 22:01

Yeah.

the-sober-butterfly_3_11-18-2025_182425: 22:01

I'm sure, yes.

Bryan Power: 22:03

But I think that's a key to really getting a good relationship is, is not feeling like you have to have that person and, and understand and just being happy for them, regardless of who they choose and what they choose. Now, you know, my wife and I, as it turned out, she would choose me and, and ultimately we would put this back together, but it was a letting go that actually allowed me to heal more. And then when I, I actually apologized for my part in the relationship. I was able to one day just have a quick conversation with her. just say, Hey, look, I, I just, I'm sorry for the, the way I showed up a little bit and I wish I could have done some things differently and I, you know, I wish you well. And she said, well, I don't wanna be with anybody else. I still love you the whole bit. And I, and I was just like, wow. Like I wasn't expecting that, right. I was just. just kinda like, wow. So I was taken by that and at that point we said, okay, well if that's the case, you know, let's get the restraining order off and we can move forward and see what we can do. And so it still took another month and a half to get the restraining order off. So we couldn't even talk during that time.'cause I, I wanted to honor that restraining order as much as possible. It's a very scary thing to

the-sober-butterfly_3_11-18-2025_182425: 22:56

Yeah.

Bryan Power: 22:56

you wanna be as honorable to that as possible. And so I just waited until we got the restraining order off and at that point we were then able to communicate and begin to hang out, spend some time together. And it was obvious, I think from the beginning that, you know, things were different. She admitted to me that, you know, I was her mirror and that all the things that she thought was wrong with me were actually a lot of her own

the-sober-butterfly_3_11-18-2025_182425: 23:14

Oh.

Bryan Power: 23:15

Right? And, and same thing. You know, a lot of things again, I thought were wrong, were her issues, were were also my own. And I had to take ownership of those things. And so. That was a big awareness, I think, for both of us. And then we began to practice some of the skills and some of the new tools and be open to learning these things and practicing them and doing them differently. And so as we began to do that, we realized, wow, you know what? I think we might be able to make this thing work. Because even though the restraining order comes off, those first couple of months are still kinda like, whoa, you know, not sure how that's gonna go until you're able to really kinda spend some time. But yeah, that's kinda how that went down.

the-sober-butterfly_3_11-18-2025_182425: 23:44

Yeah. Thank you for sharing all of that. So let's get into the six pillars, because I would love to hear, I only know the little snippet of attached theory from that book. So like, talk to us about the six pillars.

Bryan Power: 23:59

Yeah. So the six pillars of the integrated attachment Theory created by Tyse Gibson outta Canada again is number one, it's your core wounds, and those are the subconscious wounds that are driving the bus, if you will. And, and that's the thing we don't even realize we're doing it a lot of times, and you can have wounds like, you know, fear of abandonment, fear of being alone, not good enough, unsafe. Unheard, all these, all these different wounds that can kind of play out and we don't even realize we're doing it. And 95 to 97% of our decisions in life are made by the subconscious. And the other thing I learned is that the conscious cannot out will or overcome the subconscious.

the-sober-butterfly_3_11-18-2025_182425: 24:33

Oh.

Bryan Power: 24:34

even though consciously, yeah, so even though consciously I'm thinking one thing, my subconscious is gonna drive that train a different way I haven't healed those wounds, it's gonna go the way it wants to regardless of how much. I wanna do something, right? So I, we always talk about like, let's say you go want to go to the gym and you wanna get in shape, okay? But let's just say after the first week, you know, now of a sudden on Tuesday you want comfort and you want connection with your friends. So what am I gonna do? I'm gonna now say, oh, forget the gym. I'm gonna go out with my buddies, you know, hang out, have some wings, and, and, and connect and chill out and, and feel some comfort. And so it, it's like we're sabotaging ourselves, but we're not. It's that the brain. Wants what it wants and it's gonna get what it wants immediately, no matter how bad it is, long term. And so that's why we have to do the work to heal the wounds. So we don't have those behaviors, we don't have those, quote unquote, if you will sub, you know, sabotaging self-sabotaging behaviors. So number one, core wounds, very important work on those. Number two is our needs. What are my true needs? What do I really need in my daily life? What do I want outta life? And then how do I fill those needs on my own so I'm not outsourcing my needs to my spouse, my friends. You know, everybody else around me. So when I do that, that's a big, benefit to me. Number three, it's emotions. How do I deal with my emotions? How do I, number one, get control of them? Number two, what can I learn from my emotions? Because emotions are just information. So if I'm angry, I can backtrack that and say, well, why am I angry? What is really causing me to be angry or fearful? What am I afraid of? Why do I feel so afraid right now? And, and I'm talking at times when it, there shouldn't be there, right? So all of a sudden, you know,, I'm feeling really anxious and my fear comes up. of a sudden I, if I think back, it's because I feel like, you know, my spouse is gonna break up with me. Maybe because we're having a little argument now. I'm that fear of abandonment, that fear of being unloved, that fear of not being good enough is all being triggered. And so what I should be emotionally at a level two or three, maybe I'm now at a level 10 and I'm just like, you know, my anxiety's through the roofing crazy. That's when we know there's something going on deeper emotionally. That's. Again, unhealthy and not right. There's nothing wrong with fear and anger if it's meant, you know, if it's the right time for that fear and anger, if you will. But sometimes when it's there and it shouldn't be there, that's when we have to look at ourselves and say, okay, why? There's something else going on there. It's the story we're telling ourselves. Number four is our boundaries. How do we set boundaries? What are good, healthy boundaries? How do we set them? always say boundaries are like the fence around the house. Okay? The, the fence protects the house. We're the house, okay? The boundaries protect that. So how do I set those boundaries? How do I make sure that people are respecting the boundaries so that we know how to have relationship together that works. So that's important. Number five was huge communication. How do we communicate in a way that actually works? And that's one thing that my wife and I had a hard time is really commu and so many people do, right? How do we communicate in a way that moves the needle? And in the past, my wife would always try to talk to me about certain situations, and I would always listen to defend myself because my wounds wouldn't allow myself to really be, I was always feeling like I was being attacked and, you know, and, and that maybe she was gonna leave me because I wasn't perfect and all this other stuff. And so I was listening to Defend and I was notorious for jumping on top of her in mid-sentence. And she would always say, you're not listening to me. And I'm like, of course I'm listening to you. I'm listening to you to make sure that I know how to tell you you're wrong and defend myself. And that's not a healthy way to do it. Now we have a totally different way of communicating that actually moves the needle. That's a huge tool to put in our tool vault for, for that. And number six is our behaviors. How do we change our behaviors? How do I, you know, handle myself on a daily basis that's a little bit more becoming of a man respectful. You know, maybe I'm not flying off the handle as much. I'm gaining more control of my emotions. I learn how to, not have those conversations when I'm triggered. Right. Maybe I put my shoes on. And I go for a walk and I'll do this. I, I will literally put my shoes on and go for a walk and say, Hey, I, I just need a little time to myself. And I'll go out for an hour until I feel my body come back into balance and I'm feeling a little more regulated. Then I can come in the house and, and now I can have a discussion in a better way if we need to, or sometimes we just put on the shelf and talk about it tomorrow. But those are the types of things that we change all six of those things, and we begin to learn how to improve on all six of those core elements. It's a game changer for yourself, your, your emotions, your own internal relationship, and that relationship to yourself begins to change. And then that relationship with others can begin to change as we learn and start to understand some of their behaviors, some of the way, maybe their core wounds. We start to see some of that stuff in other people too. So it makes a huge difference.

the-sober-butterfly_3_11-18-2025_182425: 28:43

Thank you for sharing that.

Bryan Power: 28:44

Yeah.

the-sober-butterfly_3_11-18-2025_182425: 28:44

Six pillars. I feel like you gotta rewind and break them down for me again, a pop quiz. If you're listening at home, what's number four? No, I'm joking, but I do want you to recap them, but also like, out of the six pillars, do you feel like. There are some pillars that are not more important because pillars like they are all part of the foundation that's, you know, holding everything up. But like, is there maybe like a starting place is more the, the frame of the question? Like, is there a place that you think we should start? Is it number one, like identifying those core wounds, like really going there so that you can figure out like what's driving your subconscious and work through that.

Bryan Power: 29:21

Yeah, I, I, I think it depends on where you are. Certainly, if you're in a highly emotional state, then the first thing we have to do is try to get some control of our emotions and, you know, learn how to get emotionally balanced a little bit. But yeah, it's the core wounds that are really driving the train, so I truly believe that is the root of it. Okay. The, the, the core wounds are really the focus and those first three, the core wounds. The needs and the emotions. Those are the first three pillars I think, that are super vital. And then the other three follow the train a little bit. Those are kind of the caboose, if you will. But yeah, I, I would say the core wounds are, are definitely, I think the, the most important, unless you're in a heightened emotional state again, then we gotta try to get some emotional balance and learn some tools where we can just get. You know, safe and get the emotions under control a of bit. But that's hard when that wound is triggered, when that wound is ripped open like ours was, the emotions are just now getting triggered left and right, and it can be very difficult. That's, that's where that's really hard.

the-sober-butterfly_3_11-18-2025_182425: 30:09

Yeah, so how do you start? To unearth or excavate parts of yourself. I know that therapy we mentioned is one tool. Are there any other suggestions or strategies that people can employ if maybe like, say, therapy is not available to them to really start to understand? Their core wounds because I think it's very uncomfortable. Discomfort is not something that we were kind of talking about this backstage, like when we're uncomfortable, we don't necessarily lean in and it's almost like a form of self-protection. We just need that instant gratification where we're like, I don't wanna feel this emotion. And they say emotions or feelings or fleeting. Like I've read studies where it's like under like 60 seconds, but it's like we can actually sit. Through. Oftentimes we can't sit through that discomfort for 60 or 90 seconds or whatever the timeframe is, so we deflect or we look for other ways to, for me it was drinking, but like so many ways to like distract ourselves from ourselves. So yeah. What can people do to start to identify those core wounds if they're not sure what they are?

Bryan Power: 31:08

Yeah, I agree. It's so hard to sit on your emotions. It's like, no, I, I wanna embrace our emotions. There's nothing wrong with emotions. Emotions are fine. There's that. That's just, that's great that we're feeling emotional. That's okay. But we do have to begin to learn from our emotions. What can we really think about ourselves? What is the story I'm telling myself? Because what happens is your beliefs lead to your thoughts. Your thoughts lead to your emotions, and then your emotions will lead to your

the-sober-butterfly_3_11-18-2025_182425: 31:33

Wait, is it I, is it your thoughts lead to your beliefs or is it your beliefs?

Bryan Power: 31:36

Now, beliefs lead to your

the-sober-butterfly_3_11-18-2025_182425: 31:37

You start with your beliefs.

Bryan Power: 31:38

to your. To your emotions and your emotions relate to your actions. So I have to backtrack a little bit and say, okay, if I'm emotional right now, what is my thought? What is it? Well, the thought is this person's gonna leave me. I, I'm afraid that they're gonna abandon me. Okay, well, what is my belief? My belief is that I'm not good enough. I'm not lovable, and therefore. This person's gonna abandon me. That's my thought. And now, now I'm emotional'cause now my anxiety's up. And so that's why I'm feeling afraid and scared and, and hurt and okay that. So we have to backtrack that. And that's the key, is begin to use our emotions for our good and start to figure this out and say, well, okay. And if I can learn that and say, okay, what is that? What is that belief I'm having and then realize, oh yeah, am I really gonna be abandoned? Is that true that this person is gonna lead me? No, that's not true. Can I 100% no that I'm going to be abandoned? No. Can I 100% know that I'm not lovable? No. Can I, you know, so we start to, we start to dissect it and start to realize like, wait a second, why am I telling myself these false stories that, again, are just not true. But that, and that takes time. That takes some practice. I love, again, the work that Tys Gibson is doing through her personal development school, which you can join through my website and we can talk about at the end. You can go to my relationship fail.com, you can join that through my website. And that's the work that we do. We begin to uncover those wounds. We begin to look at those wounds and then begin to do some exercises that can now begin to heal those wounds and, and move the needle so that, and we do some 21 day exercise that literally within 21 days, you can begin to reprogram. And that is scientifically based. You can actually create new neuropathways that will actually, you know, work into your brain and, and actually travel. It's like that information that's going into your head. It's just cloudy, dirty water, if you will. And now we gotta get, you know, we gotta get good clean water flowing in that river, if you will, going into your brain so that now you're working on automatic pilot. But it's, it's healthier and it's much better than what we're doing right now, you know?

the-sober-butterfly_3_11-18-2025_182425: 33:25

The way you describe it, and this is a testament to how you described it, is it sounds so simple, but I know from lived experience that it's not that simple to reverse engineer your emotions. In the moment, especially in real time. And most people like we talked about, like they can't do that and therefore they look for ways to quell the feeling, the uncomfortable feeling. But to your point of like emotions, yeah, you should have them. Congrats. You're not a sociopath. Like it feels good to feel good, obviously, but like a part of the human experience, you're not always going to feel good. So thank you for sharing all of that. That's very helpful. So if folks do wanna connect with you or want to start doing the work. How can they find you

Bryan Power: 34:06

I challenge everybody, first and foremost, look on YouTube for attachment theory thais Gibson, T-H-A-I-S-G-I-B-S-O-N. On the Mel Robbins podcast

the-sober-butterfly_3_11-18-2025_182425: 34:16

Oh, cool.

Bryan Power: 34:17

about an hour and 15 minutes of talking about attachment theory, and you can learn a pretty good, a pretty good idea of what your attachment style is just from listening to that. After that though, go to my website, make your relationship fail.com, or my relationship fail.com, and you can learn more about this stuff. You can take the attachment style quiz so you can learn what your attachment style is on there. Completely free to do that. And then I'll give you a free strategy session as well. If you want. By all means, book a free session with me. Be happy to talk to you, see what your situation is, and join the personal development school through my website. That is thais Gibson School. Through my website in there is a treasure trove of videos, workbooks, everything you wanna learn and things that you're, that we're just talking about here. That is where you can do it and it's really affordable. You can do month to month, you can do yearly, you can do a lifetime membership, whatever. But literally just start off even if you need to just for a month, I think it's maybe 50 bucks or something, and you can really begin to learn this program and, and do some of this work. And if you want me to, I can be your coach and I can help get you through this. We can move the needle a little bit faster if that's something you wanna do. But it's, regardless, I'll give you a free session, happy to hear your story and see if we can help point you in the right direction for that. So, yeah.

the-sober-butterfly_3_11-18-2025_182425: 35:23

Thank you. Is this just relational or can we do this work even if we're not in a romantic relationship with someone?

Bryan Power: 35:30

Oh yeah, no, I think we, we can do this work regardless if you're just somebody who's like, yeah, I wanna learn how to have better relationships. I'm not in one now, but I know I have some issues. I know I don't have the skills necessary, but I, I know that I'm gonna have a relationship again someday and I wanna learn the skills. And so absolutely you do this by yourself. Even if your spouse doesn't, let's say you are in a relationship. Your spouse doesn't care right now. It doesn't matter. You can do the work. You need to choose to do the work for yourself. And a lot of times when you do the work and you begin to heal, you begin to understand your partner and their attachment style, their wounds. You can move the needle tremendously in your relationship, even if you alone do the work. Or sometimes we do outgrow our spouse. If that person is very unhealthy and we begin to get very healthy, sometimes that relationship does end and that's okay because hey, we've come to a point now where we're able to have a good, healthy relationship. And if that. Person hasn't done the work and they don't care to kind of come along with us. And sometimes it is best to move on and, and that's just the way that works sometimes. But but yeah, at the end of the day, I think it's just important that we choose for ourselves to do the work so that we can get healthy. We are able to show up and, and have a great relationship with somebody. And I promise you, when you do that. Somebody else will appear, whether it's your spouse coming with you or coming back into your life like minded, or whether it's a brand new person coming into your life that you're now able to see and vet better and, and see the wound, see the red flags and the green flags better and some of those things, now you're gonna be able to say, wow, okay, I know how to do this now. And, and boy, it gives you a lot of confidence. You feel like pretty good about, you know, how, how to do this stuff now. And like I feel like I can, I can do this, I can have a good relationship. Like, whoa, who knew me? Like literally me.

the-sober-butterfly_3_11-18-2025_182425: 37:00

I love that. It sounds like more confidence, clarity, discernment, you know, all, all of these things I've learned also through getting sober and I think it, it bolsters, you know, all areas and optimizes all areas of life. But I also think like, whether you're seeking relationship or not, it sounds like you personally have grown. With one of the greatest relationships of your life, which is the relationship we all have with ourselves. Like at the end of the day, we have to live with ourselves. And if we don't start to do the work, even if we're starting maybe for someone else, you can maybe just improve your relationship with how you see yourself. And I think that will just benefit everyone in so many aspects of their life.

Bryan Power: 37:40

I think all this work comes back to healing us first and foremost. Absolutely. And, and that is really key is that we, we begin to show up. We know how to, we have these tools now and, and then God willing, we have a, a partner there with us and, and again, in my case, I was able to work it out with my wife, but, You know? Yeah. If we have a spouse that also now begins to see these tools, sometimes again, just us practicing the tools, even if they're not, even if they don't know what we're doing, but we're just beginning to do these things, they start to change as well because they have to come along because we're now, we're now handling ourselves a little bit differently. lot of times it just forces them to come back a little bit different. Then sometimes they'll come along and ask and say, what are you doing? You know, I wanna learn more of that stuff. Like, you know, a lot of times that will happen, but, don't be afraid to start off the journey on yourself. And I agree, staying sober is the best thing you could do because you know, when you're, you know, drunk and dealing with all that, you're just cloudy. It's hard to get real clarity on life. Clarity on life, your thoughts, your, your wounds.

the-sober-butterfly_3_11-18-2025_182425: 38:31

You're pouring lighter fluid on an already huge heaping pile of like trash lit on fire. So it's just like flaming the, the fumes or whatever they say.

Bryan Power: 38:41

And it's, and it's really a way to just get that need met in a short-term way. But again, long term, we know that that's unhealthy and it's really not benefiting us long term. It's that short-term fix. To help try to solve a long-term problem. We have to begin to do the work to really solve the, the problem and really begin to, and then you don't desire, you don't even wanna get drunk. You don't even want drink. Really. It's becomes more of like not interested,

the-sober-butterfly_3_11-18-2025_182425: 39:01

don't even wanna be in a toxic relationship with anyone else because you're like, I am not in a toxic relationship with myself anymore.

Bryan Power: 39:08

Right. Mean anything

the-sober-butterfly_3_11-18-2025_182425: 39:11

I love just everything toxic gets cut. I, I love that so much. Bryan. I wanna wind down by asking you just any closing remarks. If you were to share like a final note on attachment theory or just like understanding the pillars, what would you want folks at home to really think about and take away from this convo?

Bryan Power: 39:29

I, I hope somebody today just takes away the idea that this is possible that, you know, if you've came through some really difficult childhood, like myself and my wife, and, you know, you have all these issues as an adult, you're struggling to decent relationships, and you just can't figure this stuff out. Man, I was so frustrated. I'm 57 years, 56, almost 57 now, and it took me this long to, to even get to this point. And it's, and it's really hard, really frustrating. are answers out there and, and, and I promise you that this can change and I don't care how bad things look. I don't care if you have a restraining order against you. I don't care if you're headed towards divorce. I've seen it. I've heard the other stories. I know they're out there. Things can turn around and, but I think it's just so important that we do the work, that we change, that we're willing to humble ourselves. look at ourselves first and foremost, so that e even if we do come back together, if we did come back and we don't have these tools, it is just gonna be unhealthy again. But if we can come back, if I can do the work and, and, and they don't do the work, then maybe I move on. Or if I do the work and they eventually meet me there, that's great. Or if they do the work and I do the work, now we're both moving in the right direction. You can't lose if you do the

the-sober-butterfly_3_11-18-2025_182425: 40:30

You can't lose. You can't lose if you do the work. Okay. It's a win-win.

Bryan Power: 40:34

is possible. That's the thing.

the-sober-butterfly_3_11-18-2025_182425: 40:36

Yeah.

Bryan Power: 40:36

anything, I don't care how, listen, my wife told me she'll never be happy so long as you, you're so long as you're in my life, I'll never be happy. And that was just to push me away.

Nadine Mulvina - The Sober Butterfly: 40:43

Yeah.

Bryan Power: 40:43

own way of just getting me, you know, to, to kinda move on and, and whatever. But that was hurtful. And so you, when you hear those things, it, it can really be painful. But at the end of the day. Again, if we can back off, take some time, heal, do the work and then kind of work through this, anything is possible and, and you can reconcile with your spouse. Or again, if it's that toxic and unhealthy and maybe it is the best thing to move on, sometimes it is sometimes, you know, just if my wife didn't do the work that she did, I, I wouldn't be back together with her. I would've moved on and been okay with that. I would've been like, okay, it's okay to move on if that's the case. But but yeah. Anyway, I just want you to know there's hope, man. Anything could change.

Nadine Mulvina - The Sober Butterfly: 41:18

I love it. Thank you for leaving us on such a high note like there is hope and I think to your point, it is a win-win situation even if you have to release something that's no longer serving you, whether that be a relationship or alcohol or whatever we have going on in our lives. There's always a moment for you to make a choice for yourself and to start doing the work for yourself because ultimately it sounds like you did the work for you. Your wife did the work for her, and it benefited both of you. So like that is a beautiful story. Bryan, thank you so much for sharing all of that with us, and I'm going to plug in the show notes for people to find you, your website, any of your socials, the YouTube video that you mentioned, and. All of the resources will be found, guys in the show notes below. So thank you Bryan for coming on the Sober Butterfly. It was a pleasure to have you and hear parts of your story.

Bryan Power: 42:13

It was a pleasure to spend this time with you guys and I'm so thankful for the opportunity just to share my story and I just hope that we can save some relationships out there and, and get you guys you know, really enjoying this and becoming sober butterflies.

the-sober-butterfly_3_11-18-2025_182425: 42:23

I love that. Thank you so much, Bryan.

Nadine Mulvina - The Sober Butterfly: 42:26

Okay, butterflies. What did you learn from this episode with Bryan? I think what really struck me is how he turned one of his darkest chapters in his relationship into this catalyst for healing. The way he talked about attachment styles and core wounds and emotional needs, boundaries. It wasn't like academic. It was lived. It was real. Brian reminded us that you don't have to wait for a crisis also to start healing. Like you don't have to be served papers to start working on yourself. You don't have to lose anyone to learn to love yourself, and you don't have to be in a relationship to start doing the work. I think that part was integral for me. Healing is personal, it's messy, it's ongoing, and it's something that we all deserve access to. If you took anything away from today's episode, I hope it's this, you are not defined by your wounds, but by what you're willing to do with them. I really wanna thank Brian for his vulnerability, his insight, and for showing us what's possible when someone chooses to meet themselves with honesty and compassion. If this episode resonated with you, please share it with someone who may need to hear it Thank you for listening, and thank you for being a part of this community rate this podcast if you haven't already done so. It really, really does help more butterflies find the show. So if you have not left a review, please do me that solid and go ahead and rate the show five stars. Okay, butterflies. Until next time, take care of yourselves. Love you. Bye.